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Thread: Scandinavian Connections with Russia

  1. #11
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    SCYTHIAN MEN - from book "Scythian Gold", which describes present Russian and Ukrainian archaeological research into these people, the Alans, the Cimmerians to a slight degree, and others who may have added to Russia and Ukraine's distinct cultural and ethnic development.




    Anyway, so yes, there was mixture and influence from ‘Asian’ barbarians, prior to the Scandinavian / Viking involvement, but these people were not in any way Mongolian; they were ancient Indo-Aryans themselves, and admirable people with a noble culture tied to their beliefs in the spirits of nature, the forest, and in particular their horses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lena_rus
    I agree that Ruses were in strong connection with Scandinavians, but I highly doubt that Vikings founded Rus and all. :annoysigr
    Read some history books, please.
    I have. The Rus came from Sweden.

    And really, why do you tell me to read books? All you have for argument is your doubt.
    Leave behind the weak, we must take the strong in hand:
    Together are the wicked violent forces in command

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Magnus
    I have. The Rus came from Sweden.
    You`re so categorical. "Norman theory" is only one theory about Rus`. I cant tell that I dont support it... I think that there`s no single right theory about history of the Rus. Most authoritetive scholars still arguing about that and you`re a so confident in your "The Rus came from Sweden".
    In ancient Rus were not only Swedish, but Norwegian vikings also. So perhaps Rus came from Norway?... I dont know. Neither you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Magnus
    And really, why do you tell me to read books? All you have for argument is your doubt.
    I based my doubts on history books, not on my imagination, belive me.
    ~Lena The little Blonde Beast

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Magnus
    I have. The Rus came from Sweden.

    And really, why do you tell me to read books? All you have for argument is your doubt.
    Most Russian historians, and many Western historians, now believe that the word Rus has no connections with Swedish (or Finnish) and is an indigenous Slavic word referring to a people who lived by a 'river'. Some even see connections with the Alano-Sarmatian tribe, the Roxolani and an ancient Sanskrit-derived word for 'light coloured hair'.

    The fact is that even the stories about Rurik and his followers largely depend upon a politically biased church history written nearly 300 years later. Cultural traces of the Varangians are either virtually non-existent or utterly indistinguishable from that of the native population.

    Swedes played a part in the ethnogenesis of the Russian people. That much is certain. But they cannot be said to have played as crucial role as once believed.

    Personally, I'm getting a little bored with people regurgitating 19th Century Slavophobia on messageboards, no matter how innocent the intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesritter
    In turn another source of mixture that went into making the original Rus amalgam ethnicity, were the Alans, the descendents of the Proto-Indo-Iranian speaking Scythians, who were terror on horseback, yet cultured. The Scythian descended Alans are an analogous source of influence on creating what became the Russian ethnicity.
    But were there really any Alans left there at the time of the birth of the Kievian Rus? From what i know the Alans were driven away by the Huns and assimilated by the Goths later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VÄRING
    But were there really any Alans left there at the time of the birth of the Kievian Rus? From what i know the Alans were driven away by the Huns and assimilated by the Goths later on.

    The Cherniakhov culture partially survived and had a major influence on the 5th-6th Century Kiev culture of the Middle Dnieper region. One can safely posit that a certain degree of ethnic continuation was also the case. Mass migrations of people are rare exceptions. Even a large number of Goths stayed behind in the wake of the Hunnic and Avar incursions.

    But, no, the Alans were no longer a culturally distinctive people by the time of 'Rurik'. Don't think anyone suggested that they were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuddorsped
    ...

    Swedes played a part in the ethnogenesis of the Russian people. That much is certain. But they cannot be said to have played as crucial role as once believed.

    ....
    Small distinction, in the name of accuracy, and diplomacy. They were not Swedes at that time, they were the Eastern Norse, whose population that stayed in the heartland would become Sweden much later.

    I make this distinction, as I have run into people who maintain Stockholm practically erected Moscow on Royal orders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lena_rus
    You`re so categorical.
    Yes. Damn my Swedish ancestry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena_rus
    "Norman theory" is only one theory about Rus`. I cant tell that I dont support it... I think that there`s no single right theory about history of the Rus. Most authoritetive scholars still arguing about that and you`re a so confident in your "The Rus came from Sweden".
    Every believable theory I have ever heard about the Rus is that they came from Sweden, so I have no reason to believe that they didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena_rus
    In ancient Rus were not only Swedish, but Norwegian vikings also. So perhaps Rus came from Norway?... I dont know. Neither you.
    It's wrong to call them "Swedish" or "Norwegian", as Todesritter pointed out, but the tribe originated in Roslagen, so I call them Swedes. I have even heard about Danes who traveled to Russia, so there was probably a mix of every Scandinavian nationality, but the main tribe was "Swedish".
    Leave behind the weak, we must take the strong in hand:
    Together are the wicked violent forces in command

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuddorsped
    Personally, I'm getting a little bored with people regurgitating 19th Century Slavophobia on messageboards, no matter how innocent the intentions.
    I assure you, you're not the only one.

    And as for innocent intentions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesritter
    I make this distinction, as I have run into people who maintain Stockholm practically erected Moscow on Royal orders.
    I wonder if this is where this thread is going?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Magnus
    I have. The Rus came from Sweden.

    And really, why do you tell me to read books? All you have for argument is your doubt.
    Ever heard about Nestors Chronicle?

    As for the name Rus, it is more likely that it didn't mean any ethnicity, but some sort of a guild. The name Rus can be from almost anywhere, but it is most likely that the name is of Slavic origin.

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