View Poll Results: Which is your favourite Germanic language?

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  • Danish

    11 4.28%
  • English

    55 21.40%
  • Faroese

    1 0.39%
  • Frisian

    6 2.33%
  • German

    70 27.24%
  • Icelandic

    34 13.23%
  • Netherlandic (Dutch, Flemish, Afrikaans)

    16 6.23%
  • Norwegian

    25 9.73%
  • Swedish

    32 12.45%
  • Other (please specify)

    7 2.72%
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Thread: Your Favourite Germanic Language

  1. #31
    Senior Member Gustavus Magnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare_Gbg
    As for the jiddish question i dont se it as a language.Sounds more like bastardised German to me.
    It is, I have a hard time separating yiddish from hebrew. Well, not exactly, but you know what I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare_Gbg
    Have had an incident where i used a German frase and some idiot asked me if i was jewish.
    Maybe it's because of your big nose?
    Leave behind the weak, we must take the strong in hand:
    Together are the wicked violent forces in command

  2. #32
    Volkert Volkertsen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordgau
    I hope that was your point for Scots, and not for Estuary English, Cape Barren English, Zeelndisch, Stadtfriesisch and Limburgs as distinct languages, which are listed up there.
    As I said, the language/dialogue distinction is often just a matter of political perspective.

    I know where you're coming from, though.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volkert Volkertsen
    As I said, the language/dialogue distinction is often just a matter of political perspective.
    You may have your Scots (I personally couldn't really comment that special case knowledgeably anyway)--but even on the page which you gave they speak in respect of that all, of Stadtfriesisch, Limburgs, Estuary English etc. only of "Sprachvarianten" ("lingual variants") and "verschiedene Mundarten" ("different dialects").

    But beyond every political perspective one certainly reaches even with the broadest idea of "language" linguistically at sometime or other a level where it objectively does not make sense to prefer the language term to that of the dialect: when they are so clearly close to each other and lingual-genetically related and when in a higher form of culture, civilization and society, which we have in the Germanic sphere, these variants did not become each for themselves standardized writing languages for cultural tradition and general communication, but one variant of them has prevailed as standard form for them all or a more or less homogenized standard form of them was generated.

    Already in the Middle Ages, where a German standard language didn't exist in the same way as it does today, the dialects from Saxon to Bavarian were regarded as different regional variants of one language Deutsch.

    One certainly could point out the most subtle differences of idiomatic expressions and make up then a "Mhldorf language", a "Waldkraiburg language", and a "Schwindegg language" from one little place to the next, and finally one would come to the result that every speaker in the world has his own individual "language"--denying that is certainly also "political", as insinuating such thing as a collective "language" of people may be interpreted as an attack against the radical-individualistic idea of the individual's free will, creative power and intellectual-spiritual uniqueness which are expressed in grammatical, phonetical, lexical and else peculiarities, in the very subtle frequences of the tones which come out of his mouth.

    I know where you're coming from, though.
    Where? Teutonia? :
    Man ſei Held oder Heiliger. In der Mitte liegt nicht die Weisheit, ſondern die Alltglichkeit.

    SPENGLER

  4. #34
    Senior Member Vanir's Avatar
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    It is functionally extinct now, but I'll vote Anglo-Saxon.
    The bones & heart of our English today, and an Iron Anchor of our Heritage.

    it is a really beautiful language to listen to, not that many people have heard it. I must admit it stirs my heart whenever I listen to it.

    Here's a small soundfile of it I have on my server space
    http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~tiwaz/OEspoken.mp3
    Just question for any Icelandic or Scandinavian speakers, do you find any of it intelligible? I just recall reading somewhere that when the Danes and English were fighting, they could understand each other somewhat.

    Segment of "The Battle of Maldon" :NorseHelm

    Se flod ut gewat; a flotan stodon gearowe,
    wicinga fela, wiges georne.
    Het a hlea hleo healdan a bricge
    wigan wigheardne, se ws haten Wulfstan,
    cafne mid his cynne, t ws Ceolan sunu,
    e one forman man mid his francan ofsceat
    e r baldlicost on a bricge stop.
    r stodon mid Wulfstane wigan unforhte,
    lfere and Maccus, modige twegen,
    a noldon t am forda fleam gewyrcan,
    ac hi fstlice wi a fynd weredon,
    a hwile e hi wpna wealdan moston.
    a hi t ongeaton and georne gesawon
    t hi r bricgweardas bitere fundon,
    ongunnon lytegian a lae gystas,
    bdon t hi upgangan agan moston,
    ofer one ford faran, fean ldan.
    a se eorl ongan for his ofermode
    alyfan landes to fela laere eode.
    Ongan ceallian a ofer cald wter
    Byrhtelmes bearn (beornas gehlyston):
    'Nu eow is gerymed, ga ricene to us,
    guman to gue; God ana wat
    hwa re wlstowe wealdan mote.'
    Wodon a wlwulfas (for wtere ne murnon),
    wicinga werod, west ofer Pantan,
    ofer scir wter scyldas wegon,
    lidmen to lande linde bron.
    r ongean gramum gearowe stodon
    Byrhtno mid beornum; he mid bordum het
    wyrcan one wihagan, and t werod healdan
    fste wi feondum. a ws feohte neh,
    tir t getohte. Ws seo tid cumen
    t r fge men feallan sceoldon.
    r wear hream ahafen, hremmas wundon,
    earn ses georn; ws on eoran cyrm.
    Hi leton a of folman feolhearde speru,
    grimme gegrundene garas fleogan;
    bogan wron bysige, bord ord onfeng.

    Translation

    The tide went out; the seamen stood ready, the many Vikings eager for battle. Then the heroes protector commanded a warrior hardened in battle to hold the causeway, who was called Wulfstan, brave amongst his kin; that was Ceolas son, who shot down with his spear the first man who stepped very boldly onto the causeway there. Fearless warriors stood there with Wulfstan, lfere and Maccus, the two brave men, who did not desire to take flight from the ford, but they defended steadfastly against the enemies for as long as they might wield their weapons. When they perceived that, and clearly saw that they had found bitter bridge-guardians there, the hateful visitors then began to use guile; they asked that they be allowed to have passage, to come across the ford, to lead their infantry.

    Then the nobleman began, because of his pride, to allow too much land to the hateful people. Byrhthelms son began then to call over the cold water (the warriors listened): "Now space has been provided you, come quickly to us, men to the battle; God alone knows who will be allowed to control the battlefield." The slaughter-wolves advanced (didnt worry about the water), the host of vikings, west across the Blackwater, carried their shields over the bright water, the sailors bore their linden shields to the land. Byrhtnoth with his warriors stood ready there against the fierce ones; he ordered the war-hedge to be made with shields, and that the host should hold firm against the enemies. Fighting was near then, glory in conflict. The time had come when doomed men must fall there. Clamour was raised there, ravens circled, an eagle eager for carrion; on the earth there was uproar. They let fly then from their fists file-hard spears, grimly sharpened spears; bows were busy, shield received spear-point.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SURT
    Just question for any Icelandic or Scandinavian speakers, do you find any of it intelligible? I just recall reading somewhere that when the Danes and English were fighting, they could understand each other somewhat.

    I understood a few words while listening to the example, although not enough to decipher the text. It's quite different, of course its most likely going to be closer to Icelandic than to modern Swedish Norwegian or Danish, that with the alphabet being the same and the pronunciations quite similar, overall of all the Scandinavian tongues Faroese probably comes the closest.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Nttfari's Avatar
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    Here's an old Icelandic poem I'm sure Lundi knows, and the Anglo-Saxon translation

    Forn-slenzka
    at mlti mn mir
    at mr skyldi kaupa
    fley ok fagrar rar,
    fara brott me vkingum,
    standa upp stafni,
    stra drum knerri,
    halda sv til hafnar,
    hggva mann ok annan.

    Anglo-Saxon
    t mlede mn mdor
    t me scolde ceapian
    flge and fgra ra,
    faran aweg wi wcingum,
    standan ppe in stefnan,
    steran deorne cnear,
    faran sw t hfene,
    hawan man and er.

  7. #37
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    I love English, and what I really like to hear is the native English speaker speaking English in his regional dialects whether he be from Yorkshire, London or Aberdeen.

    The Aberdonian tongue known as the "Doric" is the closest we have to the original Anglo-Saxon tongue. The Aberdonians are wonderful and very mild people and they use words like "driech" meaning grey and cloudy, and many others besides. I spent only one year of my life there, but it was part of a process which imbued me with a sense of place.

    The Normans came and introduced us to some new words, but they did not entirely wipe out the Saxon tongue, Shakespeare used to move between Norman and Saxon words within the English language to express modalities.

    Language is wonderful!

  8. #38
    Volkert Volkertsen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordgau
    You may have your Scots (I personally couldn't really comment that special case knowledgeably anyway)--but even on the page which you gave they speak in respect of that all, of Stadtfriesisch, Limburgs, Estuary English etc. only of "Sprachvarianten" ("lingual variants") and "verschiedene Mundarten" ("different dialects").

    [snip]

    denying that is certainly also "political", as insinuating such thing as a collective "language" of people may be interpreted as an attack against the radical-individualistic idea of the individual's free will, creative power and intellectual-spiritual uniqueness which are expressed in grammatical, phonetical, lexical and else peculiarities, in the very subtle frequences of the tones which come out of his mouth.
    Ah, this is a good example of how it is difficult to discuss Language scientifically, with linguists as well as laymen. In this sense it is very much like trying to discuss Race scientifically; Language, like Race, is something everyone feels both connected to and possessive of. Impartial examination of it on a scientific basis usually falls apart due to the influx of political overtones.

    Also, like the terminology used in racial science, the terminology used in linguistic science can be misleading for laymen and researchers alike. In the above case, for example, the term Sprachvarianten (generally rendered in English in the scientific literature as "speech varieties") appears to the layman to mean different varieties of the same language. Linguists, however, use this term to mean any variation in speech patterns, from the very broad to the very narrow; thus, English and German are two different "speech varieties," as are British English and American English, as are Pittsburghese and Philadelphian, as are variations in speech patterns between two different neighborhoods in one or the other of those cities.

    As for the question of the individual's role in the language process, it is indeed true that each person does speak his or her own unique speech variety, generally known as an "idiolect." My neighbor and I might speek the same dialect of the same language, but we each have our own peculiar mannerisms and minor differences in pronunciation which are scientifically notable. This does not in any way invalidate notions of "dialect" or "language," however. It just means that dialects are a collection of similar idiolects, languages are a collection of similar dialects, language families are a collection of related languages, etc.

    Taken together, of course, they still are expressions of the character and will of a folk. Indeed, I am a firm believer in the Principle of Linguistic Determinism -- the idea that the language one speaks shapes one's entire worldview, even down to the minutest details of kinetics and the perception of time. This notion is not widely held by the modern linguists who cling to Chomsky's pantleg like a misbehaving dog at a crowded party, and my support of it has made some think of me as a maverick in the field.


    Where to draw the line between speech varieties is another matter, and this is where politics usually plays its rle.

    In delineating languages and dialects, some have suggested that in order to rightly be classed a language, a dialect must have developed a literary tradition. But where does that leave some tongues such as can be found in Africa or South America, where no literary traditions have ever existed? Two speech varieties in those locations may be genetically related and have been in contact for centuries, but due to tribal politics or other factors could still be considered languages. Our Germanic culture/cultures, as you point out, are of a higher order, but this does not necessarily make the drawing of these distinctions any easier.

    Some have suggested a criterion of mutual intelligibility for drawing the distinction, e.g. if the speakers of two speech varieties can understand each other's variety, this makes them dialects of the same language. But then, if we consider examples like Czech vs. Slovak, Serbian vs. Croatian, or even some varities of Danish vs. some varities of Swedish, we begin to see problems with this line of thought.

    The matter is really very confusing, and there are many viewpoints which only serve to muddy the water. It's kind of like going on Dodona and talking about the "White Race." A bunch of Berbers or Sicilians or Spaniards might think they're included, taking the term as a synonym for "Caucasoid." Others might draw the line in a different place, taking it to mean only the most depigmented of the caucasoids. So it is with dialects and languages.

    I myself am inclined to think of it in the terms laid out by a famous Frenchman (though the phrase is often wrongly attributed to a Yid):

    "Une langue, c'est un dialecte qui possde une arme et une marine."

    "A language, it is a dialect with an army and a navy."


    Where? Teutonia? :
    And it's a fine place from which to come! I s'pose I should be careful with my idioms.

  9. #39
    Senior Member beowulf wodenson's Avatar
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    I'll have to go with english as it's my 'native' tongue (or perhaps I should say kentuckian :laugh: ) despite its latinized-hybrid character but I really have no working knowledge of any of the other germanic languages save a bit of german. I would like to learn more about the language of my ancestors the anglo-saxons, foundation of modern english.
    Also, ich spreche bisschen deutsch weil ich habe deutsch an die uni fur 3
    ?semestren? gelernt.(Das war nach 2 jahren) Meine deutsch ist nicht so gut (schlecht, haa), aber ich verstehe mehr als ich spreche. Es war meine erste nebenfach an die uni,und war sehr interessant. Ich mochte mehr lernen einige tag. :

    My apologies to all the resident deutschevolk here at the tnp for my shoddy use of your language. I speak fluent spanish but 'tis alas, not a germanic tongue

  10. #40
    Senior Member Gustavus Magnus's Avatar
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    Grin

    Quote Originally Posted by beowulf
    I speak fluent spanish
    Sure you do, Bubba. ?Que quieras Taco Bell?
    Leave behind the weak, we must take the strong in hand:
    Together are the wicked violent forces in command

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