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Thread: Frequency of Epicanthus in Some European Populations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch
    Hmmm. Isn't it pretty bad policy to classify people according to how they themselves identify?
    Depends on the circumstances.

    I mean, I'm sure you've heard of the so-called Pan-Aryans who identify as "White", but would not look out of place in a Taleban rally?
    Sure have, but these people are extremely marginalized, unrepresentative members of their respective ethnic groups. Honestly, how many Moroccans identify as 'white' :?


    The fact is that there is no significant genetic difference between Finns and "Swedish Finns" (the correct term is "Swedish-speaking Finns, btw).
    I don't know about that... there are certainly very palpable anthropological differences between the two groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sventovit
    I don't know about that... there are certainly very palpable anthropological differences between the two groups.
    I have a book about this issue. I will give you some data about the differences when I have time.

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    Question for Sventovit:

    Do you see any epicanthus and other Asiatic features in this female:


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    I have worked with a Finnish GTF, at a University, who had Epicanthic folds. As this happens not infrequently with white Americans whose families have been here more than 3-4 generations, with Amerindian admixture, I normally would not take notice. However, I was just learning about physical anthropology, with regard to Northern Europeans, and got up the courage to bring up the subject politely with her. (I can get away with being the polite, and innocently ignorant American quite well) She said that it was common in her family, about half her cousins had th same type of eyes. It did not look exactly like Asian eye-folds, and I know the difference from studying Japanese, and from wrestling East Asian during training.

    Bottom line, as an ignorant American, I asked her, and she and her family considered themselves fully Finnish, and damn proud. If this trait is a part of the Finnish gene-pool at some minority proportion, so what? This young, woman was, blond, blue-eyed, intelligent, strong, certainly proud to be Finnish, and Tall, (big plus in Todesritter's book).

    I really don’t know how representative she and her family are for Finland, but she seemed like a fine and honest person. Also, the Swedish ethnic minority in Finland, is actually Swedish for the most part, even aside from language. All the major sources point to these too neighboring countries exchanging in small amounts population for many centuries – and the later transplants tend to stay within their more isolated social milieu when starting families.

    After all, who is to say that epicanthic folds solely originated in East Asian populations? Intuitively, and from reading, it seems likely that during pre-history this trait could have co-evolved. There was a theory that epicanthic folds in Amerindian populations were an independent ‘parallel evolution’ at one point. Though that may have been bogus, who is to say that the populations of white European ancient ancestors in the northern extreme, in a glacial desert, did not independently select toward an adaptation, making eyesight more sound in a dry, harsh environment?

    It is irrelevant, moving forward, if this ancient trait is undesirably among our Baltic corsages, it will be bred out of the gene-pool - and to make issue of it to attack a Finnic comrade is asinine and counter-productive.

    /* end rant, sorry, I like Finns, and hate to see them feeling marginalized - or obliged to shoot down research, or whatever by playing defensive ad hominem. */


    :bier: Flip side of coin, if everyone is being genuine, we should be able to study, discuss, and either agree with or refute this sort of information without becoming mean to our friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louhi
    Question for Sventovit:

    Do you see any epicanthus and other Asiatic features in this female:

    Hmm, if she begged me to go have beer with her, I think I would not have a hard time accepting. :icon12:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louhi
    Question for Sventovit:

    Do you see any epicanthus and other Asiatic features in this female:

    Looks middle-easterner with H2O2 hair. Is she?

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    Interesting. I recall seeing a study which told that 1/1000 of Finns have semi-mongoloid eyefolds and 1/10000 full mongoloid. And they are concentrated into north-Karelia, which has been historically a very peripheral area.

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    I am asking Sventovit to show studies about epicanthus in all European populations. Otherwise this thread has no reason to live very long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sventovit
    The epicanthic fold is also a recessive trait, interestingly enough. Karin Mark hypothesizes that Uralic/Lappinoid Pit-Comb pottery people (Kunda culture, etc...) who migrated to the Eastern Baltic area in the Mesolithic underwent an intensive process of depigmenation before mixing with invading, Baltic-speaking tribes of the Battle-Axe/Corded Ware culture
    How do you base the assumption that the Kunda culture was 'Uralic/Lapponoid'? The Kunda culture was an eastern continuation of the Maglemöse culture (North-Germany/Denmark), so are you stating that the Lapps were the first to settle Scandinavia and Finland?

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    I remember reading that all foetises of all races have epicanthic eyefoldes but loose them before birth, indicating that this is the default condition of all human eyes.
    It is thought that Mongoloids have redeveloped them as a cold-weather adaptation or else never lost them in the first place, I believe Capoids have a similar, less distinct eye fold.
    The point I'm raising is that if the eyefold is a cold-weather adaptation which has evolved through a process of neonathany, then is it not possible that Northern-Europeans could have developed the same feature independently of Mongoloids?
    The genes responsible for the eyefolds in Europeans and Mongoloids would to be identified and compared for similarity before conclusions on levels of mixture between the two races could be drawn, imo
    Close observation may result in feelings of horror, wonder and awe at world you find yourself inhabiting.

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