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Thread: Determining Racial Types

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Determining Racial Types

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordhammer
    For a more concrete analysis you will have to measure your skull.

    Not to get too far off topic, but my measurements put me into the Danubian category in all measurements except head length. My head is longer.
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    Measurements are actually more misleading than pictures IMO.






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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
    Measurements are actually more misleading than pictures IMO.

    Measurements are absolute and not open to interpretation. Look at the classification forum. Hardly anyone ever agrees. I think measurements need to coincide with genetic analysis. If there is a contradiction between the two, genetics would prevail.
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    Member Triglav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocreator
    Measurements are absolute and not open to interpretation. Look at the classification forum. Hardly anyone ever agrees. I think measurements need to coincide with genetic analysis. If there is a contradiction between the two, genetics would prevail.

    Well, not really. Europeans tend to become taller and longer-headed, which renders these measurements from the days of old rather useless. They don't hold water any longer. Just take a look at the data on the height for males from the various European countries - the younger generation is much taller.

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorostan
    Well, not really. Europeans tend to become taller and longer-headed, which renders these measurements from the days of old rather useless. They don't hold water any longer. Just take a look at the data on the height for males from the various European countries - the younger generation is much taller.

    Height can change within one generation. But, height isn't really an important factor when determining race anyway. I'm not so sure we are becoming longer headed. Some might say we are becoming Brachycephalized.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocreator
    Height can change within one generation. But, height isn't really an important factor when determining race anyway. I'm not so sure we are becoming longer headed. Some might say we are becoming Brachycephalized.
    Brachycephalised? Not Europeans.

    Anyway, those absolute measurements aren't indicative of one's sub-type. Today's generation isn't just taller but has overall larger heads (and head measurements) as well.

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorostan
    Brachycephalised? Not Europeans.

    Anyway, those absolute measurements aren't indicative of one's sub-type.
    Then what is?

    Today's generation isn't just taller but has overall larger heads (and head measurements) as well.

    How do you know? What are you using to do the comparisons? I'm doubtful that head size has changed much in the last 30,000 years.

    Take a look at this photo. I think my great-grandfather has the biggest head in that photo.
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    Member Triglav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocreator
    Then what is?
    Ah, the pitfalls of viewing evolution as a monolithic and one-dimensional process... This is how far an immoderate fixation with Coon can get one. Science didn't stop in the beginning of the previous century, you know.

    To answer your question: rather facial proportions than absolute figures. It is fallacious to think that types remain the same regardless of ther lifestyle and environment.

    Two otherwise Nordid (for example) populations will not display the same features if they is exposed to fundamentally different life conditions and nutrition. As Darwin himself would put it: genes are nothing without an environment in which they can manifest themselves.

    How do you know? What are you using to do the comparisons?
    I read contemporary scientific studies.

    "In the article the development of skull measurements and head measurements (length and breadth) and of the cephalic index, calculated from these measurements, since the Neolithic period are presented. The results obtained from the historical material are compared with those of living persons. The measurements as well of the skull as of the head show secular changes. The following general trend was found: an increase of body height is connected with a debrachycephalisation and a decrease of body height is connected with a brachycephalisation. It can be emphasized that brachycephalisation/debrachycephalisation are part of the secular trend. Therefore environmental factors are responsible for the described changes of measurements of the skull and the head in a broadest sense."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=9850630

    I'm doubtful that head size has changed much in the last 30,000 years.
    You're comparing apples with pears now. There have been several brachycephalisation and debrachycephalisation trends over the last centuries, let alone millennia. In the last few centuries, people had a poorer diet than in many ancient societies. Moreover, their facial proportions have changed.

    Take a look at this photo. I think my great-grandfather has the biggest head in that photo.
    The example you are giving is statistically insignificant. We're talking about averages here. In my family, height, head length and breadth haven't changed significantly in 3 generations (gramps, dad and my humble self). That doesn't say much about the general trend.

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    I think your argument will take us down a dangerous slope.

    In effect, what you are saying is race is malleable. If we take a group of Negroes and put them in Sweden, over several generations they'll become Nordid looking. Or if we take a group of Swedes and move them to the African plains, they'll become Negroes. I don't believe that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gorostan
    Ah, the pitfalls of viewing evolution as a monolithic and one-dimensional process... This is how far an immoderate fixation with Coon can get one. Science didn't stop in the beginning of the previous century, you know.

    To answer your question: rather facial proportions than absolute figures. It is fallacious to think that types remain the same regardless of ther lifestyle and environment.

    Two otherwise Nordid (for example) populations will not display the same features if they is exposed to fundamentally different life conditions and nutrition. As Darwin himself would put it: genes are nothing without an environment in which they can manifest themselves.



    I read contemporary scientific studies.

    "In the article the development of skull measurements and head measurements (length and breadth) and of the cephalic index, calculated from these measurements, since the Neolithic period are presented. The results obtained from the historical material are compared with those of living persons. The measurements as well of the skull as of the head show secular changes. The following general trend was found: an increase of body height is connected with a debrachycephalisation and a decrease of body height is connected with a brachycephalisation. It can be emphasized that brachycephalisation/debrachycephalisation are part of the secular trend. Therefore environmental factors are responsible for the described changes of measurements of the skull and the head in a broadest sense."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=9850630


    You're comparing apples with pears now. There have been several brachycephalisation and debrachycephalisation trends over the last centuries, let alone millennia. In the last few centuries, people had a poorer diet than in many ancient societies. Moreover, their facial proportions have changed.


    The example you are giving is statistically insignificant. We're talking about averages here. In my family, height, head length and breadth haven't changed significantly in 3 generations (gramps, dad and my humble self). That doesn't say much about the general trend.
    .

    IHR Revisionist Conference, April 24, 2004, internet broadcast:

    http://www.internationalrevisionistconference.c om/

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    Senior Member Skåne!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocreator
    Or if we take a group of Swedes and move them to the African plains, they'll become Negroes. I don't believe that.
    I don't beleive that either.

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