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Thread: Origins of Germanic Tribes & Scandinavia

  1. #91
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    What tribes came from scadinavia(that is the right name for Scandinavia). i gess that is the question.
    definetly
    Goten: from Vestergotland and Gotland,
    Heruler:from Jütland and SKane,
    Langobarden(Viniler): from east Skane and Norway,
    Burgunder: from Burgaholm and Jütland.
    This happens bedween 100 B.C and 150 A.C
    That is, i believe the point.
    Proto germanic and Indo germanic and Indo European went about 8ooo till 4000 B.C to Skadinavia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by odalar View Post
    What tribes came from scadinavia [...] i gess that is the question.
    Ultimately - all of them.


    The expansion of the Germanic tribes 750 BC – 1 AD: New settlements until 1AD

    [...] scadinavia(that is the right name for Scandinavia).
    The reconstructed name in Proto-Germanic is 'Skažinawjō'.
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    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anlef View Post
    As far as the ethnogenesis of the Germanic people is concerned: it is likely to have taken place in Southern Scandinavia, but in the sense that that is where the First Germanic Sound Shift originated, and thus Proto-Germanic spawned as a language separate from the Central Indo-European dialect continuum (from which later also spawned the Balto-Slavic, Indo-Iranian, Armenian, Greek and probably Albanian languages). That Sound Shift spread northward and southward, sealing the identity of the Germanic peoples as a separate entity. In other words: there was already a cluster of ethnically similar tribes in what is now Scandinavia, Northern Germany and the Netherlands, a Proto-Germanic world so to speak, before a Proto-Germanic language itself was in effect.
    I would agree with this. Germanic identity is firstly a matter of culture and language, and the emergeance of a distinctly Germanic language, as a thing distinct from it's Indo-European and (ahem) "Old European" parents, occured aorund the opening of the Celtic Iron Age, c.500 BCE.

    However, all of the necessary elements were in place by the opening of the Bronze Age c.1800 BCE. and the first signs of Indo-European culture -- be it introduced or domestic evolution -- namely the arrival of the wheel and the doubelheaded stone axe came at something like 2300 (2100?) BCE.

    The cooking pot for Germanic culture and language was indeed the seashores of southern Scandinavia. And this all took place over the course of the Bronze Age, which was something of a Golden Age for our folk ... in which the weather was more like that of France, in which in which the infant survival rate enjoyed anywhere from a tripling to a quintipling, in which Hjortspring-like boats plied the waters of the Baltic and North Seas carrying goods to and fro the British Isles and Poland. The Baltic was in fact the headwater of the legendary Amber Road that, as early as the late Stone Age, carried Baltic amber down to Myceanean Greece.

    This was a VERY long period, lasting some 1300 years, of prosperity and stability, all enjoyed a step or two removed from the greater world of overly disimilar cultures, ie. insular. It produced the great communal burial mounds of the age, and the many rock-carvings ... all of which originally stood in sight of the sea.

    Then the came onset of climate change as the Celtic Iron Age grew ever closer. Trade routes broke down, living condition took a turn for the worse. And existing tribal populations could no longer be supported within existing tribal boundaries. Such is how the Celtic Iron Age began for our Germanic ancestors. And they began to push into northern Germany and then beyond.

    According to Tacitus, the "ancient hymns" of the Germanic peoples celebrated Tuisto and his son Mannus as the co-progenitors of our Folk. Of these children, some few stood out as particularly glorious. The first gave his name to all of the tribes that dwelt along the seashore, ie. originally ALL of the tribes, who were thus called the Ingvaeones, the tribes of Ingiu ... the ancestors of the royal house of Sweden, the Ynglings, and the proper name of the Eddic god Yngvi-FreyR.

    As the Rune Poem stated, "Ing was first" ... and as TyR, ie. Glory, stated in the Lokasenna, "Frey is the BEST amongst the gathered host of gods".

    Ingui's brother gave his name to those new tribes that came to inhabit the "interior", and so they were collectively known as the Hermiones or Irminones, the tribes of Irmin. According to Widukind the Monk, the Westphalian Saxons erected the Irminsul in honour of Hermes (Mercury, the standard gloss for Woden) but worship him as Mars (standard gloss for Tiw, but sometimes used of Woden). According to the Eddas the Norse form of Irmin, Jormun, is one of Woden's bynames. And according to Snorri's preface of the Prose Edda, Woden came first to Germany where he founded lines of kings before moving on to Ingvaeonic Sweden (new Germanic "revelation" vs. old Germanic "revelation").

    These two are generally listed with one more brother, Istaev -- in order to maintain the basic "god begets god begets trio of brother gods" pattern -- but little to nothing can be said of him today. And indeed, even these three are said to have had many other brothers beside, who gave their names to many lesser tribes. Look even deeper into Mannus' Sanskrit cognate, the god Manu, and one finds that he had something like 12 sons of note, but many, many others that didn't prove to be so great in the end.

    The rest as they say is history ...

    Last edited by Jamey Martin; Thursday, June 14th, 2012 at 10:55 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Origins

    The Germanic culture may have originated there, but the Nordic peoples originated around the northwest coast of the Black sea. The recent genetic discoveries of the genetic mutations to blue eyes and pale skin and blond hair can be traced to the Black sea area some 8000 years ago. The genetic scientists also stated that because of the lack of "flanking DNA" in the pale skin mutation that these people were rapidly evolving. Evolving into what? How about a new species?

    One of the tribes,the Alans, never left the area. Here is how an ancient Greek historian described the Alans. "The Alans were a handsome people, tall and muscular with blond hair and a fair complexion. They had a reputation for being swift cavalrymen and fearless fighters". But the Huns swarmed over them killing and enslaving thousands. Many fled all the way to France. Many thousands joined the Goths, spoke their language and became Goths.

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    My understanding is that Ancient pre-Germanics came from the western steppe. They were equestrian nomadic Barbarians originally, and gradually became semi-nomads once they reached the Northern black-sea coast. The early indo-Europeans had been expelled from Scythia (North of the Black Sea), and proceeded to travel North and West. They had come up from Circassia, and before that, somewhere north of Armenia, in the land of the Gamir. Of course, there is much room for debate on this topic.


    Here is a somewhat relevant article outlining the Pre-Germanic origins:

    http://www.protogermanic.com/2012/07...immerians.html
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    Does anyone know if there have been many Greek or Roman traders in Norway?
    (of old times)

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    Quote Originally Posted by arthaus View Post
    Does anyone know if there have been many Greek or Roman traders in Norway?
    (of old times)
    Probably Greek and Roman traders got to Scandinavia as the Greek and Roman authors had information about it. Moreover Roman coins from that region can prove this. F.e. Pytheas of Massillia (Marseilles) was a Greek explorer who surely got to North and he described the Germanic tribes, the polar ice or the mythical island of Thule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfaz View Post
    Probably Greek and Roman traders got to Scandinavia as the Greek and Roman authors had information about it. Moreover Roman coins from that region can prove this. F.e. Pytheas of Massillia (Marseilles) was a Greek explorer who surely got to North and he described the Germanic tribes, the polar ice or the mythical island of Thule.
    I haven't heard about Roman or Greek traders here, but we have found many Roman drinking vessel in Scandinavian graves. This shows that the chieftains had allied themself with Rome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GewaltigeAufgabe View Post
    My understanding is that Ancient pre-Germanics came from the western steppe. They were equestrian nomadic Barbarians originally, and gradually became semi-nomads once they reached the Northern black-sea coast. The early indo-Europeans had been expelled from Scythia (North of the Black Sea), and proceeded to travel North and West. They had come up from Circassia, and before that, somewhere north of Armenia, in the land of the Gamir. Of course, there is much room for debate on this topic.


    Here is a somewhat relevant article outlining the Pre-Germanic origins:

    http://www.protogermanic.com/2012/07...immerians.html
    Us mesos were here before the indos
    Please don't confuse the terms "nordid" and "nordic".

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    I think that there are at least 2 different factions at play here. I think the "Black Sea" immigrants and those already in Germanic lands when they arrived. Going by y-dna we know that the Black Sea peoples in Scando-Germany were "R1a" and it is thought most of the others in Scando-Germany to be "I" and "R1b". "I" is usually assicoeted with the peoples already in the area when the "R's" arrived. so going by this logic it would appear that the "I's" were the original Germanics before merging with the "R's".

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