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Thread: Origins of Germanic Tribes & Scandinavia

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    Question Origins of Germanic Tribes & Scandinavia

    I have been discussing the origins of Germanic tribes on SF with Louhi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki

    Most Germanic tribes originated in Scandinavia. Sweden is the womb of Germanic nations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louhi

    Germanics arrived in Scandinavian peninsula quite late. Remember, the whole Northern Europe was covered by ice until some 8000 years ago. The first inhabitants were the Saamis. Then came Finnic tribes, which also inhabited large parts of Scandinavian peninsula. It was quite late when Finnic people were assimilated into North Germanic population. Nowadays only people in Tornio valley are those who have been able to maintain their language. There is also a minority called Kvens in Norway. I really cannot see how most Germanic tribes can be originated in Scandinavia. It's more likely that it's on the contrary - they are from north-central Europe.
    This is an interesting topic. Anyone want to participate?

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    Well, they most definately were not sami, as they only arrived in norway around year 0, in norway at least. How long the finns have been in Finland I do not know, but I would estimate not to much of a differnece from the time of the germanics. Indo-Europeans on the other hand, were here way before germanics and Finns, and still today we can find hydronyms that are not germanic, but older Indo-European here. The first people to get here after the glaciers melting down however, we do not know the ethnicity of. They might have been Indo-europeans, but they alsot might not. We do know that they still linger here in among others the upper-paleolithic and borreby types. The Kvens that we have in Norway are of even later date than the Sami.

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    Origin of the Germanic Tribes

    Regarding the question of ethnic origins, evidence developed by both archaeologists and linguists suggests that a people or group of peoples sharing a common material culture dwelt in northwestern Germany and southern Scandinavia during the late European Bronze Age (1000-500 B.C.). This culture group is called the Nordic Bronze Age and had spread from southern Scandinavia into northern Germany. The long presence of Germanic tribes in southern Scandinavia (an Indo-European language probably arrived ca 2000 B.C.) is also testified by a lack of pre-Germanic place names. This cultural grouping, which emerges and spreads, without sudden breaks, can be distinguished from the culture of the Celts inhabiting the more southerly Danube and Alpine regions during the same period. Cultural features at that time included small, independent settlements and an economy strongly based on the keeping of livestock.

    Linguists, working backwards from historically-known Germanic languages, suggest that this group spoke proto-Germanic, a distinct branch of the Indo-European language family.

    In the centuries after 500 BC Germanic culture grew to the southwest and southeast. The details are known only generally, but it is clear that the forebears of the Goths were settled on the southern Baltic shore by 100 AD. On the lower and middle Rhine, previous local inhabitants seem to have come under the leadership of Germanic figures from outside, according to some scholars.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani...s#Introduction

    From this article it is obvious that Germanics originated in Southern Scandinavia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegard
    Well, they most definately were not sami, as they only arrived in norway around year 0, in norway at least. How long the finns have been in Finland I do not know, but I would estimate not to much of a differnece from the time of the germanics. Indo-Europeans on the other hand, were here way before germanics and Finns, and still today we can find hydronyms that are not germanic, but older Indo-European here. The first people to get here after the glaciers melting down however, we do not know the ethnicity of. They might have been Indo-europeans, but they alsot might not. We do know that they still linger here in among others the upper-paleolithic and borreby types. The Kvens that we have in Norway are of even later date than the Sami.
    Germanic is a cultural and linguistic identity that has only existed for a few thousand years.

    Indo-European was the Proto-Germanic root language. I don't understand why your making a distinction between Indo-European and Germanic. Indo-European is a language group not a racial group. As for how long Nordics have inhabited Scandinavia one can only speculate. But it is a known fact that Southern Scandinavia has been inhabited since the Stone Age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    I have been discussing the origins of Germanic tribes on SF with Louhi.



    This is an interesting topic. Anyone want to participate?
    I haven't found any information that debunks the volkservanderung theory. The Germanic tribes originated in Scandinavia, migrated southward, and settled and intermingled with the local tribes, which were of probably the same stock.






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    A question that comes to mind if the Germanics didn't originate form Scandinavia where did they come from?

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    The Germanic people did not originate in Scandinavia. That much is obvious. When you look at the movement of the Indo-European peoples upon their entrance into Europe, you will notice that c. 4000 BCE they had already begun to split off into the groups we now recognise today (Germanic, Celtic, Slavic, Hellenic etc.) I had seen quite a good little "video clip" a while back showing how the migration most likely took place. By this time you see the people who would form the various Germanic tribes moving through Central Europe/ Central to Northern Germany into Southern Scandinavia. I really don't see how you think, Southernboy, that the Wandering of the tribes conflicts with the idea that the Germanic people, like all Indo-Europeans, had an original homeland which was not Scandinavia.

    The fact that there was a distinct seperation between Indo-Europeans shows that by this time there must logically have been cultural distinctions.

    Btw, if you're going to post information please don't use wikipedia. It drives me up the wall when people use information from there among other such online sources. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by NormanBlood
    The Germanic people did not originate in Scandinavia. That much is obvious. When you look at the movement of the Indo-European peoples upon their entrance into Europe, you will notice that c. 4000 BCE they had already begun to split off into the groups we now recognise today (Germanic, Celtic, Slavic, Hellenic etc.) I had seen quite a good little "video clip" a while back showing how the migration most likely took place. By this time you see the people who would form the various Germanic tribes moving through Central Europe/ Central to Northern Germany into Southern Scandinavia. I really don't see how you think, Southernboy, that the Wandering of the tribes conflicts with the idea that the Germanic people, like all Indo-Europeans, had an original homeland which was not Scandinavia.

    The fact that there was a distinct seperation between Indo-Europeans shows that by this time there must logically have been cultural distinctions.

    Btw, if you're going to post information please don't use wikipedia. It drives me up the wall when people use information from there among other such online sources. Thanks
    What's wrong with Wikipedia? It's easy to access and the information is accurate.

    But Scandinavia was already settled before 4000 BCE so why isn't it possible that Germanics originated from there?

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    You are aware that wiki-pedia is made by the average Joe ? I could post that apples are green oranges if nobody else had posted there before. eyes:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Paladin
    Indo-European was the Proto-Germanic root language. I don't understand why your making a distinction between Indo-European and Germanic. Indo-European is a language group not a racial group. As for how long Nordics have inhabited Scandinavia one can only speculate. But it is a known fact that Southern Scandinavia has been inhabited since the Stone Age.
    Obviously I know that Germanic derives from Indo-European. What I am saying is that there has been at least two waves of Indo-European "immigrations" to Scandinavia, the first one not being the Germanic wave. Ingar Særheim writes a critical article on Hans Krahes theory of "old-europe hydronomy" in Maal og minne:

    Særheim, I. (2001). Hans Krahes teori om ein gammaleuropeisk hydronomi. Ei kritisk vurdering etter 50 års diskusjon. Maal og Minne(1), 1-16.

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