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Thread: Origins of Germanic Tribes & Scandinavia

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorostan
    His credibility, obviously.



    Personal judgment, you say...

    How about facts? How do you reconcile his postulation that Mediterranids and Alpinids come from Asia with sex-specific genetic markers (that have recorded migrations after the LGM) which prove that 80% of Europeans have descended from the European UP population? And the fact that SW Europe and NW Europe are hardly distinguishable on a Y-chromosome haplogroup level? Just because it strokes your ego, it doesn't make it valid...

    Nice signature, by the way.
    "The Passing of a Great Race" was published in 1916. I believe, which was well before the scientific breakthrough in the field of genetics. In the conclusion of the introduction to his work, Grant writes that new data will expand and change the ideas he presents:

    http://www.africa2000.com/XNDX/madgrant_intro.html

    The immense range of the subject of race in connection with history from its nebulous dawn, and the limitations of space, require that generalizations must often be stated without mention of exceptions. These sweeping statements may even appear to be too bold, but they rest, to the best of the writer's belief, upon solid foundations of facts, or else are legitimate conclusions from evidence now in hand. In a science as recent as modern anthropology, new facts are constantly revealed and require the modification of existing hypotheses. The more the subject is studied the more provisional even the best-sustained theory appears, but modern research opens a vista of vast interest and significance to man, now that we have discarded the shackles of former false view-points and are able to discern, even though dimly, the solution of many of the problems of race. New data will in the future inevitably expand, and perhaps change our ideas, but such facts as are now in hand, and the con-clusions based thereupon, are provisionally set forth in the following chapters, and necessarily often in a dogmatic form.
    Life is a tragedy to those who feel; a comedy to those who think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoroaster
    "The Passing of a Great Race" was published in 1916. I believe, which was well before the scientific breakthrough in the field of genetics. In the conclusion of the introduction to his work, Grant writes that new data will expand and change the ideas he presents:

    http://www.africa2000.com/XNDX/madgrant_intro.html

    The immense range of the subject of race in connection with history from its nebulous dawn, and the limitations of space, require that generalizations must often be stated without mention of exceptions. These sweeping statements may even appear to be too bold, but they rest, to the best of the writer's belief, upon solid foundations of facts, or else are legitimate conclusions from evidence now in hand. In a science as recent as modern anthropology, new facts are constantly revealed and require the modification of existing hypotheses. The more the subject is studied the more provisional even the best-sustained theory appears, but modern research opens a vista of vast interest and significance to man, now that we have discarded the shackles of former false view-points and are able to discern, even though dimly, the solution of many of the problems of race. New data will in the future inevitably expand, and perhaps change our ideas, but such facts as are now in hand, and the con-clusions based thereupon, are provisionally set forth in the following chapters, and necessarily often in a dogmatic form.
    I already pointed out that he conceded he had little knowledge (yet he was fond of jumping to conclusions).

    From today's perspective, his works are not very informative - or helpful for that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorostan
    I already pointed out that he conceded he had little knowledge (yet he was fond of jumping to conclusions).

    From today's perspective, his works are not very informative - or helpful for that matter.
    It's your prerogative to discount Granrt, but from my prespective his attempt to understand racial differences in terms of life-history evolution stands in stark contrasts to the smoke-and-mirros politically correct science treatment of racial issues that we see today.

    Studies worldwide show a consistant pattern of human racial differences in such charactertristics as Intelligence, brain size, reproductive potency, industriousness and sociability. Consider just one example: brain size. The empirical reality, verified by numerous modern studies, including several based on magnetic resonance imaging, is that a significant and substantial relationship does exist between brain size and measured intelligence after body size is taken into account and that the races do have different distributions of brain size.
    Life is a tragedy to those who feel; a comedy to those who think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoroaster
    It's your prerogative to discount Granrt,
    Not at all. I'm afraid you got it the wrong way.

    but from my prespective his attempt to understand racial differences in terms of life-history evolution
    My thoughts exactly. From a historical perspective, it is interesting to see what these blokes attempted to conclude from the limited resources they had at their disposal. At the same time, this means that his theories are outdated, I'm afraid. His thoughts on the evolution of the various European phenotypes were inherently flawed, which is crucial to this discussion.

    stands in stark contrasts to the smoke-and-mirros politically correct science treatment of racial issues that we see today.
    I fear you are mistaken there. Genetics has confirmed the existence of what we percieve as races. The smokescreen behind which some interest groups hide and twist these results is quite another story, as they merely try to influence the results and the perception therof. You might find these two threads useful:

    http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=6848 (Racial groupings match genetic profiles, Stanford study finds)
    http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthre...3&page=1&pp=10

    Studies worldwide show a consistant pattern of human racial differences in such charactertristics as Intelligence, brain size, reproductive potency, industriousness and sociability. Consider just one example: brain size. The empirical reality, verified by numerous modern studies, including several based on magnetic resonance imaging, is that a significant and substantial relationship does exist between brain size and measured intelligence after body size is taken into account and that the races do have different distributions of brain size.
    This is true, although it has little to do with Grant. What some of these studies confirmed flies in the face of Grant's findings.

  5. #35
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    Varig, definately you are wrong about Finns being originated from Russia. Finnish, Hungarian and Turks are all originated from the same area in central asia.They were nomads travelled to further North west(finland) and later on mixed with nordic, west(hungary),mixed with germans, southwest(turkey) mixed with arabs, greeks and russian. Hence, these three have different complexion.On the other hand,their tribe gave birth to Hun empire. Hence all these 3 countries still give the name Atilla (from Atilla Hun). Also many Turks give the name "Sami" to their son! Furthermore, English & German languages are Indo-European, Russian( i think slavic) yet Finnish, Hungarian and Turkish are Ural-Altaic(or called Ugric).Their language has seen transformation as a result of accepting different religion and mixing with other races.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AUS
    Varig, definately you are wrong about Finns being originated from Russia. Finnish, Hungarian and Turks are all originated from the same area in central asia.They were nomads travelled to further North west(finland) and later on mixed with nordic, west(hungary),mixed with germans, southwest(turkey) mixed with arabs, greeks and russian. Hence, these three have different complexion.On the other hand,their tribe gave birth to Hun empire. Hence all these 3 countries still give the name Atilla (from Atilla Hun). Also many Turks give the name "Sami" to their son! Furthermore, English & German languages are Indo-European, Russian( i think slavic) yet Finnish, Hungarian and Turkish are Ural-Altaic(or called Ugric).Their language has seen transformation as a result of accepting different religion and mixing with other races.
    Finns have always been just Finns, and we not mixed, but if you want think so, I don't care
    :costumed-

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    Senior Member Wiseman's Avatar
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    Finland has been inhabited for a very long time, ever since the ice cap began retreating. A proto-Finnic language arrived perhaps as early as 3000 B.C, from the upper volga region. It then broke into proto-Balto-Finnic and proto-Sámi.

    Believe it or not, every "race" is a mixture of many different sub-groups, but that doesn't mean that for example Finns or Swedes aren't a distinct ethnic group, not at all. Finns at least are quite homogenous concerning genetic background, meaning that most Finns have a very similar mix. To think that one ethnic group could remain unchanged for thousands of years is just silly.
    "Lännen älymystö on surullista kyllä epäonnistunut tehtävässään puolustaa läntisiä arvoja, kuten rationalismia, sosiaalista moniarvoisuutta, ihmisoikeuksia, laillisuutta, edustuksellista valtiovaltaa, individualismia (siinä mielessä, että jokainen yksilö on tärkeä, eikä ketään tulisi uhrata jonkin utopistisen kollektiivisen päämäärän hyväksi), ilmaisunvapautta, uskonnonvapautta ja vapautta olla uskomatta, vähemmistön oikeuksia ja niin edelleen. Sen sijaan nk. islam-asiantuntijoista lännen yliopistoissa, medioissa, kirkoissa ja jopa valtion virastoissa on tullut islamin uskonpuolustajia. He ovat omalta osaltaan vastuussa sellaisen intellektuaalisen terrorismin ilmapiirin luomisesta, jossa kaikkinainen islamin kritiikki julistetaan fasismiksi, rasismiksi tai orientalismiksi. He ovat omalta osaltaan vastuussa yleisön tuudittamisesta siihen uskomukseen, että islamin uhka on vain myytti... Velvollisuutemme on puolustaa vapaamielisen demokratian arvoja."
    — Ibn Warraq
    http://skender.be/supportdenmark/Sup...rkSmall2EN.png

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    Believe it or not, every "race" is a mixture of many different sub-groups, but that doesn't mean that for example Finns or Swedes aren't a distinct ethnic group, not at all. Finns at least are quite homogenous concerning genetic background, meaning that most Finns have a very similar mix. To think that one ethnic group could remain unchanged for thousands of years is just silly.
    How about Basques

    Ok, I got your point, I just deny those theories that "Finns were mongolians and they got white blood from Swedes and russians"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pan-FinnoUgric
    How about Basques

    Ok, I got your point, I just deny those theories that "Finns were mongolians and they got white blood from Swedes and russians"...
    Yes, this is typical propaganda made by Swedes :

    Actually Northern Russians have quite a lot of Finnic genes, because the whole area from coast of North Sea to the Urals were once inhabited by Finnic tribes. Then the Slavic expansion absorbed these Finnic tribes. Nowadays nothing else is left of those tribes than some loanwords in Russian, and of course their genes are still living.

    Also Scandinavia has a lot of Finnish blood, because the situation was pretty much the same than in Northern Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louhi
    Yes, this is typical propaganda made by Swedes :

    Actually Northern Russians have quite a lot of Finnic genes, because the whole area from coast of North Sea to the Urals were once inhabited by Finnic tribes. Then the Slavic expansion absorbed these Finnic tribes. Nowadays nothing else is left of those tribes than some loanwords in Russian, and of course their genes are still living.

    Also Scandinavia has a lot of Finnish blood, because the situation was pretty much the same than in Northern Russia.
    Well, Merja and Muroma are extinct, but still some nations are alive
    -smil I really hope better future for them...

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