Origins of Germanic Tribes & Scandinavia

[Triglav]

Madison Grant is great.

Perhaps his policies.

[solkorset]

Does anyone here KNOW anything about this? The germans (germanics) cannot have arisen in Scandinavia, because they grew out of indoeuropean (indogermanic) roots. Sometime in the neolithic or mesolithic the indoeuropeans were ONE tribe, and it originated somewhere in central Europe, according to both archaeological and linguistic evidence. This tribe split into the wellknown nations including germanics about 2500 BC or a little earlier. The migration of the new tribes started shortly thereafter, and they exploded in all directions, bringing the germanics to the Eastern sea and Scandinavia about 2000 BC. The nordic race, however, is much older than the indoeuropeans, and Scandinavia was already settled by nordics when the germans arrived. They probably spoke a language that was closely related to indoeuropean. They arrived in Scandinavia with the retreating ice 10 000 years ago, following the ice edge northward as big game hunters. All the socalled "urbefolkninger" (aboriginals), lapps, sami, finns, came much later, although some of them may have arrived before the germans. They all come from Asia, the finns from the Ural and the sami-lapps from arctic north Russia.

PS. Don't take this too seriously, I must fresh up on this topic. But I believe it is roughly correct.

[NormanBlood]

Does anyone here KNOW anything about this? The germans (germanics) cannot have arisen in Scandinavia, because they grew out of indoeuropean (indogermanic) roots. Sometime in the neolithic or mesolithic the indoeuropeans were ONE tribe, and it originated somewhere in central Europe, according to both archaeological and linguistic evidence. This tribe split into the wellknown nations including germanics about 2500 BC or a little earlier. The migration of the new tribes started shortly thereafter, and they exploded in all directions, bringing the germanics to the Eastern sea and Scandinavia about 2000 BC. The nordic race, however, is much older than the indoeuropeans, and Scandinavia was already settled by nordics when the germans arrived. They probably spoke a language that was closely related to indoeuropean. They arrived in Scandinavia with the retreating ice 10 000 years ago, following the ice edge northward as big game hunters. All the socalled "urbefolkninger" (aboriginals), lapps, sami, finns, came much later, although some of them may have arrived before the germans. They all come from Asia, the finns from the Ural and the sami-lapps from arctic north Russia.

PS. Don't take this too seriously, I must fresh up on this topic. But I believe it is roughly correct.

Have you read the entire thread?

[Zoroaster]

According to Madison Grant the Nordics developed their racial characteristics during their isolation near the Black and Caspian Sea basins, which ended with the last ice age. This area, not Northern Europe, is the orginal homeland of the Nordic race. The Goths, remember, pushed by the Huns mirgated from that area into the Roman Empire.

The study of historical and comparative linguistics, philology, surmises that around 1000 BC the ‘Old European language’ began to disintegrate into individual languages such as Italic (the early form of Latin) Germanic, Slavic, Baltic and Celtic. The speakers of ‘Old European’ were warriors who tamed the horse and set up a new hierarchical social system on that basis. They had brought the horse into western and central Europe from where it had originated, the steppes of Eurasia.

The root of both the ‘Old European’ and the ‘Indo-European’ languages is the Ur-language, which, after years of research and study, has been traced to the mouth of the Volga River. Toward 2000 BC these Indo-European speakers began to migrate from their homeland and brought forth a series of new cultures in Europe and Asia, ranging from Aryan Indians via the Hittite Empire and the Mycenaean principalities of Greece, celebrated by Homer. Later the Dorian Greeks and Latin speakers entered Western Europe, followed by the Celtic and Germanic tribes.

[Northern Paladin]

According to Madison Grant the Nordics developed their racial characteristics during their isolation near the Black and Caspian Sea basins, which ended with the last ice age. This area, not Northern Europe, is the orginal homeland of the Nordic race. The Goths, remember, pushed by the Huns mirgated from that area into the Roman Empire.

The study of historical and comparative linguistics, philology, surmises that around 1000 BC the ‘Old European language’ began to disintegrate into individual languages such as Italic (the early form of Latin) Germanic, Slavic, Baltic and Celtic. The speakers of ‘Old European’ were warriors who tamed the horse and set up a new hierarchical social system on that basis. They had brought the horse into western and central Europe from where it had originated, the steppes of Eurasia.

The root of both the ‘Old European’ and the ‘Indo-European’ languages is the Ur-language, which, after years of research and study, has been traced to the mouth of the Volga River. Toward 2000 BC these Indo-European speakers began to migrate from their homeland and brought forth a series of new cultures in Europe and Asia, ranging from Aryan Indians via the Hittite Empire and the Mycenaean principalities of Greece, celebrated by Homer. Later the Dorian Greeks and Latin speakers entered Western Europe, followed by the Celtic and Germanic tribes.

What about UP's? Germanics also have a strong UP element to them.

[Triglav]

The study of historical and comparative linguistics, philology, surmises that around 1000 BC the ‘Old European language’ began to disintegrate into individual languages such as Italic (the early form of Latin) Germanic, Slavic, Baltic and Celtic.

Yet Grant speculates that Slavs were Alpinid. I wonder where he picked that up in the first place. Anyway, his ramblings were pretty much debunked by genetics.

[Triglav]

What about UP's? Germanics also have a strong UP element to them.

The Nordid/UP division is more or less arbitrary.

Northern Europe and Scandinavia were colonised in several waves.

[Zoroaster]

Yet Grant speculates that Slavs were Alpinid. I wonder where he picked that up in the first place. Anyway, his ramblings were pretty much debunked by genetics.

It's been awhile since I've read Grant, and I fail to see what his speculations about the Slavs have to do with this thread. In many ways I find Grant's work, ramblings as you call it, far superior to most of the garbage produced by the politically correct scholars of our day and age.

[Zoroaster]

What about UP's? Germanics also have a strong UP element to them.

I assume UP stands for Upper Paleolithic cultures. I'd have to re-read Grant to see how he addressed the UP element. It's essentially associated with modern man and overlapped the last ice age, so it must play a part in the saga.

I gave the link to Grant's work in an earlier post. If memory serves, he addresses the origins of the great race in the beginning chapters.

[Triglav]

It's been awhile since I've read Grant, and I fail to see what his speculations about the Slavs have to do with this thread.

His credibility, obviously.

In many ways I find Grant's work, ramblings as you call it, far superior to most of the garbage produced by the politically correct scholars of our day and age.

Personal judgment, you say...

How about facts? How do you reconcile his postulation that Mediterranids and Alpinids come from Asia with sex-specific genetic markers (that have recorded migrations after the LGM) which prove that 80% of Europeans have descended from the European UP population? And the fact that SW Europe and NW Europe are hardly distinguishable on a Y-chromosome haplogroup level? Just because it strokes your ego, it doesn't make it valid...

Nice signature, by the way.