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Thread: Origins of Germanic Tribes & Scandinavia

  1. #11
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    I think Polak once said on Skadi that the genetic evidence for the Germanic ethnogenesis indeed suggested a north-central European homeland. That doesn't necessarily mean the most important spread of the Germanic tribes didn't occure from a southern Scandinavian centre though.

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    Senior Member Väring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegard
    Well, they most definately were not sami, as they only arrived in norway around year 0, in norway at least.
    I agree. The Sami entered Northern Scandinavia around year 0, following the onslaught of the Finns who probably came from what today is Russia. That is why Finland is called "Suomi" in Finnish - "Land of The Sami".

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    Hello. I decided to join this discussion, mainly because there is (not surprisingly) a lot of misinformation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Väring
    I agree. The Sami entered Northern Scandinavia around year 0, following the onslaught of the Finns who probably came from what today is Russia. That is why Finland is called "Suomi" in Finnish - "Land of The Sami".
    The Saamis are nomadic tribes who are able to survive in very harsh conditions. After the ice retrieved, climate was still very cold in Scandinavia. Still it's propable that first people came right after the ice melted. Who other people would have inhabited the coastal area of Scandinavia (which was free from ice before the inner parts of the peninsula), than Saamis? Not the Germanic people for sure, because they didn't even exist during that time (read the post of Normanblood). Just face it, it was the Saamis who were first in Northern Europe.

    As for the name Suomi, well, you're wrong again. Finland is, as known, covered by forests. A large part of the forests are swamps. Fenn is one name for certain kind of a swamp. Swamp happens to be suo in Finnish. There you have the origin for the name of Finland - Suomi. The Saamis have nothing to do with the name.

    And BTW - Finland has also been inhabited since the ice age. Also people who spoke Finnish have lived here a lot longer than just from the year zero. I do not have the sources right now so I cannot check the data, but it has been estimated that the major migration waves were about 4000 BC and 2000 BC - and where these people came from, was from the south. When I have time, I will get the source for this.

  4. #14
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    Haha, okay Even the Norwegian goverment knows now that germanics or indo-european if you prefer that term, came first to this land, but since it was deemed non-PC they decided to let them keep their status as "native people". Wishing for a thing to be true, doesn't make it so. They have found bones up north that are thousands of years older than anyone claims the samics are, and guess what, the bones were Norwegian, not samic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louhi
    The Saamis are nomadic tribes who are able to survive in very harsh conditions. After the ice retrieved, climate was still very cold in Scandinavia. Still it's propable that first people came right after the ice melted. Who other people would have inhabited the coastal area of Scandinavia (which was free from ice before the inner parts of the peninsula), than Saamis? Not the Germanic people for sure, because they didn't even exist during that time (read the post of Normanblood). Just face it, it was the Saamis who were first in Northern Europe.

    And BTW - Finland has also been inhabited since the ice age. Also people who spoke Finnish have lived here a lot longer than just from the year zero. I do not have the sources right now so I cannot check the data, but it has been estimated that the major migration waves were about 4000 BC and 2000 BC - and where these people came from, was from the south. When I have time, I will get the source for this.
    No one suggest that the Finns came to Finland in year 0, so the numbers you give might very well be accurate. But what we do know is that the samis were not the first to inhabit Scandinavia, far from it. I think the oldest recovered bones in Norway are from 9000 before our time of reckoning, and they do not have sami features. They do hoever, have features that we still can find in a smaller scale at that very same region as they were found (Borreby, South-Vestern Norway). We also have some sceletal remains from Denmark I think, called Ertebølle or something like that. I didn't find any anthropometric data right now, but if I remember right these people were dolicocephalic. Needless to say neither the Ertebølle finds and Borreby type are close to sami. In many ways they also differ from current populations, but hence claiming it to be sami is way out of hand.

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    Senior Member Eiserner Adler's Avatar
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    It is all a matter of where in time 'Germanic' people came to exist, which is of course highly arguable. I mean all humans come from the Ethiopia area. Obviously, migration to Scandanavia took place by several different people by several different routes at several different times. Is it likely that anyone inhabited Scandanavia prior to and/or during the most recnet ice age? From what I have read, probably not. So we are talking about migratioins within the last 10,000 years. In my opinion the 'Germanic' peoples became a specific seperate group when they left the Indo-European homeland in the Black Sea area (a good portion of the homeland was flooded by the vast expansion or creation of the Black Sea during the melting and subsequent rising sea level at the end of the ice age). Other than the modern day Germanic inhabitants of Scandanavia, tribes such as the Goths resided there temporarily and then returned south. So anyways, I consider all of the different groups of Indo-Europeans (e.g. Celts, Slavs, Germanics etc.) to have originated as soon as they left the homeland and became a seperate group, with their language and culture from that point onward begining to evolve independantly and only breeding among themselves rather than their IE brethern which would go on to migrate to differant areas of europe and form differant cultural groups and ethnicities. One thing is certain, unless they went the far way around over the Finnish isthmus (which is highly unlikely), the Germanic tribes must have obviously passed through Germania before ever arriving in Scandanavia for the first time.

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    Member Triglav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiserner Adler
    It is all a matter of where in time 'Germanic' people came to exist, which is of course highly arguable. I mean all humans come from the Etheopia area. Obviously I migration to Scandanavia took place by several different people by several different routes at several different times. Is it likely that anyone inhabited Scandanavia prior to and/or during the most recnet ice age? From what I have read, probably not. So we are talking about migratioins within the last 10,000 years. In my opinion the 'Germanic' peoples became a specific seperate group when they left the Indo-European homeland in the Black Sea area (a good portion of the homeland was flooded by the vast expansion or creation of the Black Sea during the melting and subsequent rising sea level at the end of the ice age). Other than the modern day Germanic inhabitants of Scandanavia, tribes such as the Goths resided there temporarily and then returned south. So anyways, I consider all of the different groups of Indo-Europeans (e.g. Celts, Slavs, Germanics etc.) to have originated as soon as they left the homeland and became a seperate group, with their language and culture from that point onward begining to evolve independantly and only breeding among themselves rather than their IE brethern which would go on to migrate to differant areas of europe and form differant cultural groups and ethnicities.
    This is actually pretty accurate. Scandinavia was settled in various migration waves after the last glacial maximum.

    http://www.dnaheritage.com/masterclass2.asp

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    In my opinion, Madison Grant who wrote "The Passing of a Great Race" is among the foremost authorities on the origins of the Nordic peoples. His book can be read on line:

    http://www.africa2000.com/XNDX/madgrant_intro.html
    Life is a tragedy to those who feel; a comedy to those who think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoroaster
    In my opinion, Madison Grant who wrote "The Passing of a Great Race" is among the foremost authorities on the origins of the Nordic peoples. His book can be read on line:

    http://www.africa2000.com/XNDX/madgrant_intro.html
    I can't believe that someone still takes this seriously - in light of genetics and recent debrachycephalisation trends.

    "The fertile lands, river valleys, and the cities are in the hands of the Teutons, but in eastern Germany and Poland we find conditions reversed. Here is an old Nordic broodland, with a Nordic substratum underlying the bulk of the peasantry; which now consists of round skull Alpine Slavs. On top of these again we have an aristocratic upper class of relatively recent introduction. In eastern Germany this upper class is Saxon, and in Austria it is Swabian and Bavarian."

    Yep, the Nordic Bavarians.

    At least he admits that his knowledge and resources are limited:
    "The science of anthropology is very recent-in its present form less than fifty years old-but it has already revolutionized our knowledge of the past and extended prehistory so that it is now measured not by thousands but by tens of thousands of years."

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    Madison Grant is great.

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