View Poll Results: What form of military service do you support?

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  • Universal military service(ex. Switzerland)

    22 46.81%
  • Professional/Volunteer(ex. UK, USA)

    21 44.68%
  • No military service at all(i.e., I'm a hippie)

    1 2.13%
  • I don't know

    3 6.38%
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Thread: What Form of Military Service Should We Support?

  1. #21
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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slavictorious
    Women should also be allowed combat rolls too. All volunteer army
    No thats a good way to cause the decline of any fighting force.

    “The other reason why women have traditionally been absent from the battlefield is, of course, their relative physical weakness. From the time humans first evolved males have been considerably larger and stronger than females; indeed some biologists believe that nature has made them stronger that they may fight. Over the last twenty years, studies have found that the average US female recruit was 12 centimeters shorter, 14.3 kilograms lighter, has 16.9 fewer kilograms if muscle, and 2.6 more kilograms of fat than the average male recruit. She only had 55 percent of the upper body strength and 72 percent of lower body strength of the average male. Since fat mass is inversely related to aerobic capacity and heat tolerance, women are also at a significant disadvantage when performing aerobic activities such as marching with heavy loads and working in the heat; as it happened, the very first woman ever admitted to the Citadel, a military school in South Carolina, soon dropped out because of heat exhaustion…. Finally, even when the experiments were controlled for height, women only had 80 percent of the strength of men. Overall, only the upper 20 percent of women can do as well, physically, as the lower 20 percent of men.….One biologist claims that, if the hundred strongest individuals were to be selected out of a random group consiting of one hundred men and one hundred women, then ninety three would be male and only seven female. Another has calculated that only the upper 5 percent of women are as strong as the median male.

    Morphologically, too, women are less well adapted to war. Thinner skulls, lighter bone bridges and weaker jawbones provide them with less protection against blows. Many women develop large, pendulous breast that impede movement and require special protection…Shorter arms make it harder for women to draw from their scabbards, stab with them, and throw them; to say nothing of the possibility that a different brain structure renders them less adept at guiding or intercepting projectiles…..Given these limitations, very few women are able to participate equally in military training and combat: ‘to strike down an enemy, to mount guard….to endure winter’s cold and summer’s heat with equal patience to sleep on the bare ground and to work hard on an empty stomach,’ as Sallust, quoting Marius, puts it.”
    ---Martin Van Creveld Men, Women, and War: Do women belong in the front line? pg. 152-154

  2. #22
    Senior Member Fraxinus Excelsior's Avatar
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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    All able-bodied males (who don't wish to join the Professional/Volunteer military) should perform mandatory non-military labor service, 2 years; would perform road repairs and other non-dangerous public-service work.

    Mandatory military service should only be used in a Reserve/National Guard styled service, and only in a status of non-deployability to a combatzone.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Slavictorious's Avatar
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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    Generals learned their lessons from Vietnam, (US) who dealt with conscripted soldiers. The results were defiant troops, scared troops, undertrained troops, and more of liabilities than actual help on the battlefield. Generals are against re-instating the draft in the US because of this lesson. A proffessional/volunteer Army is by far the best. You get better training, more motivated troops, etc.

    Conscription should include all able boddied persons ages 18-25. male or female. Hopefuly only to be used in an emergency. All persons ages 16-18 would be conscripted into either industrial work, or defensive positions in home cities.

    Conscription would only be used, if there was an attack on the home country's soil, and/or if there werent enough volunteers to deal with the enemy.

  4. #24
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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slavictorious
    Generals learned their lessons from Vietnam, (US) who dealt with conscripted soldiers. The results were defiant troops, scared troops, undertrained troops, and more of liabilities than actual help on the battlefield.
    Yeah what shame soldiers were not willing to die for a war that didnt concern the US to begin with. With professional soldiers, they go wherever whenever because thats their job. Conscript soldiers are willing to fight when their nation is actually at risk and have no wish to needlessly die in petty wars. Whose to say they're wrong?

    Rousseau was correct when he condemned professional soldiers as the "depopulators of Europe". Machiavelli also noted that professional soldiers can only make a living through war. Peace to them means being out of work. So they'll either dragg wars on or create new wars just to keep themselves in business. The US military is a perfect example of this.

    A conscript on the other hand simply wants to do his duty and return to his normal life. This means hes going to want to waste time in pathetic wars that dont concern the actual interests on the nation. Also not only that, conscription often quiets war-mongers because they more often than not they'll be the ones who have to fight. Just remember people, often the biggest war-mongers are more often than not chicken-hawks, who want war yet dont want to fight it. This is especially the case in America with the Iraq war and even the war on terror. Everybody who wanted to "nuke Afghanistan" had absolutely no knowledge about the military and frankly were not even willing to go and fight it.

    Contrary to popular view, more people did not sign up for the military after 9/11. In fact more people joined the military in September 2000 than in September 2001. Why? Well most people join because they have nowhere else to go or simply want free money for college(how about that....you need to bribe people to make them serve their country, another pathetic element of professional armies). Well now with an actual war going on, those people didnt join up. With the war in Iraq going badly, army recruiters are having even more trouble trying to find people to join.

    Generals are against re-instating the draft in the US because of this lesson. A proffessional/volunteer Army is by far the best. You get better training, more motivated troops, etc.
    Thats not true. Most people who join professional armies are social losers because they have nowhere else to go. This has been the case since ancient Rome. As the old British saying used to go "A dog before a soldier". Societies with conscripted armies often show more respect towards their soldiers while those with professional armies look down upon them. This is even true in America even after 9/11.

    A professional army is go nowhere solution to nothing. A citizen willing to sacrifice his most important duty to a mercenary(which basically a professional soldier is plain and simple) is a citizen willing to sacrifice their other freedoms.

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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    Universal compulsary military service is my vote, although women should be deployed in service and support. Also aptitude tests etc can determine that the more intelligent or talented individuals can go into engineer corps etc.

    Its a good opurtunity to get the country educated and trained, we have a nurse shortage in ireland at the moment, girls can be trained quite effectivly in the army as Nurses for example.

    Also a big army is essential in defending nuetrality which ireland is having difficulty with at the moment.

  6. #26
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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    All males should be required to go through basic training at age of 16 years old, right after high school diploma. There should be a recurring training afterwards to keep the participants in shape. However, in case there is a conflict only those who volunteer should go into active duty. This way many young people will be forced to stay in shape and learn self-discipline or organization at an early age.
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  7. #27
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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    I like the concept of the Michigan Militia myself. I hope to get training from Mark Kornke as well as training in Aryan self-defence, Klima (not climate), from Greg Rowe.

  8. #28
    Senior Member SiegUmJedenPreis's Avatar
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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    I can only speak from a South African view point. I believe conscription is one of the best things that ever came along.

    It help kick out all those Liberal hippy ideas out of our young people back in the 1960's, and equipt them with discipline and self respect.(not to mention, we've got a military trained generation of white adults the blacks are shit scared of!)
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  9. #29
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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryggvi
    Professional military service (male). Volunteers as reservists (male). Mobilisation of the general populace during impending crisis situations (male).

    Continual arm, close combat, and self-defense training for all citizens (male and female), but this should be done in schools (with assistance of army and martial arts instructors). Much more emphasis on continual physical exercise in schools.

    Only officers (three to four years military academy) and officers of the reserve (a year voluntarily & continual exercises) should be eligible to be enfranchised. As a minimum requirement.
    I'm in total agreement.
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  10. #30
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    Post Re: What form of military service should we support?

    Hey, I live in a country where the military is like a cancer on the tissue of the economy.
    It degenerated slowly, and has become a burden instead of an engine.
    Having mandatory military service of around 1 year is pointless.

    I like the idea of continual physical excercises from the earliest days.
    The state should produce fit persons.

    For an unskilled guy who 'never lifted a thing heavier than a spoon', spending 1 year
    in training is torture.

    For a guy who has been fit all his life, and taught bits and pieces of skills needed
    for the military all his life, ( which have almost become an instinct ), a month in the military would be enough.

    The way our soldiers were trained, it was obvious that their role was to be cannon-fodder.

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