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Thread: A notion on Lundman's North-Atlantid race

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    A notion on Lundman's North-Atlantid race

    The SNPA definition of North-Atlantid is that of a basic Nordic type altered by an Atlanto-Mediterranean component. For the longest time i also believed that this type also is what Bertil Lundman called North-Atlantid.

    Much of what Lundman wrote in Jordens Folkstammar suggests that this is not the case. Take this part, for instance:

    Rasligt är irländarna däremot ännu fortfarande i huvudsak av samma rasblandning som vid den engelska erövringen för århundraden sedan eller m a o övergående nordatlantida och något nordiska. Den förra rasen förhärskar framför allt i de magraste trakterna, dvs i bergen i väst och syd, samt I vissa myrtrakter i det inre. I nordatlantiderna får man väl snarast se den förkeltiska urbefolkningen, som väl talat ett icke i e språk, vilket anses bekräftat av den ytterst egenartade språkutvecklingen hos iriskan.
    The Irish are still of the same racial make-up as of the English conquest hundreds of years ago or in other words mostly North-Atlantid and somewhat Nordic. The former race dominates the poorer parts, which is the mountains of the west and the south, as well as some bog parts of central Ireland. The North-Atlantid may be seen as the pre-Keltic original population, which spoke a non-Indo-European language, a fact which is regarded as confirmed by the extremely distinctive linguistic development of the Irish langugage.
    Lundman, Bertil (1988). Jordens folkstammar. P 59

    He also mentions that the North-Atlantid race is broader of face and that it has a higher incidence of rufosity and darker hair. This leads me to believe that Lundman's North-Atlantid is the same as Coon's Brünn or Biasutti's Irish Nordid.

    So Lundman's idea of the Nordid race is like this:

    Nordid race:
    1. Scando-Nordid sub-race:
    a) Göta typ
    b) Trönder type
    c) Västmanlands type
    2. Fälish sub-race
    3. North-Atlantid sub-race
    4. Aistin sub-race
    5. Arid sub-race

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    I thought that Lundman considered the Falish and Vastmanland types to be essentially the same. What is the distinction between the two?

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    Whats "Arid" for him?
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

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    Basically the Irish are a mixture of Keltic Nordic and an UP type that some would call Bruenn, with the Keltic being more prominent in the east and the UP in the west, but there is also a certain amount of Atlanto-Meditteranean blood in Ireland as well. It seems that the term Nord-Atlantid may mean different things to different authors. It is interesting that the SPNA states that the Paleo-Atlantid race is completely or predominantly brunette in both eye and hair color, and yet is described as being broader-faced and heavier than normal Nordic types. This seems to describe a brunette Cro-Magnon-like type, often mixed with Atlanto-Meditteranean and/or Nordic types, found in a few places in Scotland and sporadically elsewhere in Britain. Otherwise, a Keltic-Bruenn-Atlanto-Meditteranean blend would produce a similar type, but one that would be more often light-eyed than dark. In western England and Wales, a Keltic-Atlanto-Meditteranean blend, minus the Bruenn, would produce a Nord-Atlantid type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Whats "Arid" for him?
    It's a nordid type found in western Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superstatt
    I thought that Lundman considered the Falish and Vastmanland types to be essentially the same.
    As far as i know Lundman claimed no such thing. I don't have Lundman's description for Fälish, but i do have his description of the Västmanlands type. Out of Lundman's scheme i believe that the Fälish resemble Brünn more closely than the Västmanlands type. Västmanlandstyper are usually small, pudgy folks that sometimes appear to be more like blonde alpinids than Scando-Nordids to me.

    B. Sub race: Västamanlands type: lower height (approximately 171-172 cm.), in particular shorter legs, but longer arms (for certain, even!) low head, medium broad "cupped" face (FI 85-90) with fairly weak lower jaw, the nose , which forms a rather strong angle towards the forehead, is short and somewhat concave (also among men, as a rule among women). The eyes are light greyish blue. Prevalence : first and foremost Västmanland; moreover eastern Närke, southern Dalecarlia as well as parts of Östergötland, south eastern Scania in Sweden; eastern Norway and Nyland in Finland.
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.p...E4stmanland%2A

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    I had thought of Coon's Brünn would be more equivalent to Lundman's Paleo-Atlantid. There is probably a continuum of robust forms anyway. Perhaps, Paleo-Atlantid > Falid > Nord-Atlantid > Skando-Nordid.

    The difference I see between Paleo-Atlantid and Brünn is simply pigmentation. I think it is probably a mislabelling discrepancy. Did Lundman produce any plates of Nord-Atlantid and Paleo-Atlantid?






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    According to this post, Lundman considered Falish related to Vastmanland.

    http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost...5&postcount=82

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    Quote Originally Posted by superstatt
    According to this post, Lundman considered Falish related to Vastmanland.

    http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost...5&postcount=82
    I also think the Västmanlands type is related to Fälish, just as Göta and Trönder are related to Fälish in one way or another, but that does not mean that Västmanland and Fälish are essentially the same.

    Southern Boy: All i have seen from Lundman is pictures of the Tydal types, at least not any of North-Atlantid types. Try "Nordens Rastyper" and "Dalarnas Folk - Typer och Härstamning." at www.nordish.com.

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