What is the Typical Celtic Looks?

[Wolfishman]

as a man of pure celtic blood, i was wondering why most people of celtic descent have dark hair? i thought the celts were blonde. I know Tacticus said the celts had dark hair and they dyed it with lime but almost all current books on celts describe them as almost Norse in appearence.

[Vetinari]

as a man of pure celtic blood, i was wondering why most people of celtic descent have dark hair? i thought the celts were blonde. I know Tacticus said the celts had dark hair and they dyed it with lime but almost all current books on celts describe them as almost Norse in appearence.

Actually, blond and red hair are produced by recessive genes which means that unless both parents carry the same recessive gene for hair color the child will have dark hair. This is why light haired people are a minority in much of Europe and not just Ireland. In the 19th century, it was believed by many in northern Europe that true Europeans had light colored hair which is why Europeans such as the Aryans were usually depicted with fair hair.

[Awar]

1. The modern Kelts, inhabitants of the Brittish isles seem to be a 'Kelticized' people, not the original central European Kelts.

2. Kelts mixed A LOT with western, southwestern and southeastern Europeans during their migrations.

3. Kelts were very VERY diverse in culture and phenotype, from Spanish Keltiberians, Brits, Gaels, Gauls to Balkan Scordisces and Anatolian Galats.

[Euclides]

1. The modern Kelts, inhabitants of the Brittish isles seem to be a 'Kelticized' people, not the original central European Kelts.

2. Kelts mixed A LOT with western, southwestern and southeastern Europeans during their migrations.

3. Kelts were very VERY diverse in culture and phenotype, from Spanish Keltiberians, Brits, Gaels, Gauls to Balkan Scordisces and Anatolian Galats.

Irish are non Celtic in terms of genetic heritage

Phenylketonuria and the peoples of Northern Ireland.

Zschocke J, Mallory JP, Eiken HG, Nevin NC.

Universitats-Kinderklinik, Marburg, Germany.

The comparison of regional patterns of recessive disease mutations is a new source of information for studies of population genetics. The analysis of phenylketonuria (PKU) mutations in Northern Ireland shows that most major episodes of immigration have left a record in the modern genepool. The mutation 165T can be traced to the Palaeolithic people of western Europe who, in the Mesolithic period, first colonised Ireland. R408W (on haplotype 1) in contrast, the most common Irish PKU mutation, may have been prevalent in the Neolithic farmers who settled in Ireland after 4500 BC. No mutation was identified that could represent European Celtic populations, supporting the view that the adoption of Celtic culture and language in Ireland did not involve major migration from the continent. Several less common mutations can be traced to the Norwegian Atlantic coast and were probably introduced into Ireland by Vikings. This indicates that PKU has not been brought to Norway from the British Isles, as was previously argued. The rarity in Northern Ireland of IVS12nt1, the most common mutation in Denmark and England, indicates that the English colonialization of Ireland did not alter the local genepool in a direction that could be described as Anglo-Saxon. Our results show that the culture and language of a population can be independent of its genetic heritage, and give some insight into the history of the peoples of Northern Ireland.

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

Before the Germans, about 1500 B.C, there was a Celtic culture east and north of France and now what is southern Germany (in other words Austria). According to Coon, they spoke Illyrian. In almost every way which can be measured, these were Celts in the cultural sense. Yet, these are the people Coon credits with being "Hallstatt Nordics". They later expanded, entering Sweden and then later becoming "Germanics" as their population expanded and moved south.

Celts were a diverse group which absorbed, for instance, the Bronze Age Bell Beaker population. Yet, even today, we still see a physical type associated with this culture which we recognize as Keltic Nordic. These people can be blond. Hallstatt Nordics can be blond, as we all know. So, the seperation between Celts and Germanics is, in one sense, temporal. Relic populations of Celts such as in Normandy, Wales and Ireland, as well as retention of their original language, make us think these cultures are more seperate than they are. I think Germanics are simplified Celts both culturally and lingusitcally. In other ways the Germanics are culturally more advanced, such as in their agriculture and metal working, yet it is almost undeniable that a relationship between the two exists and, that at some point in time and space, one changed into the other.

[Awar]

Irish are non Celtic in terms of genetic heritage

Yep, that's what I said in the first place. I think that Welsh too are non-celtic in terms of genetic heritage. The genetically 'celtic' people live in Southern Germany, Austria, France, Czech republic, Slovenia, Switzerland etc.

[Rhydderch]

I know Tacticus said the celts had dark hair and they dyed it with lime but almost all current books on celts describe them as almost Norse in appearence.

The reason modern books describe them as blond is that the Romans often described them as such; However, I think Tacitus was right in that it was a reference to the custom of dying the hair. This custom cannot have been in pursuance of a blond ideal because Celtic legends indicate that dark hair (together with snow white skin) was regarded as "ideal".

[Hagalaz]

Irish are non Celtic in terms of genetic heritage

Then are they Germanic in terms of genetic heritage? If not, what else could they be?

[The Horned God]

Then are they Germanic in terms of genetic heritage? If not, what else could they be?

I've been comming to these Racial sites for a month of so, so feel free to disagree with me, but I'm comming to the conclusion that the irish and the "celtic look" is mainly UP(white skin, red hair, coarse features) altered by Atlanto-med or Med which softens the features and brings in dark hair somtimes darking the skin a shade also.
I was surprised the other day to see an Estonian girl over on the Northern European forum with what I first assumed was the "celtic look" but others concidered to be pure UP without nordic traits, and I concur with that. The only thing about her that is rare in Ireland was her very heavy brow ridges. Irish people often have pronounced brow ridges but I believe hers were beyound the range for Ireland.
http://www.************/forum/showthread.php?t=6139
It seems one is not allowed to link directly to the Northern European forum from here.
To find the thread I am refering to just put in nordish. net (without the space) in place of the Asterisks above.


My opinion is that the average Irish person is UP/atlanto-med, the actual proprotions vary between indivduals.

[Rhydderch]

Irish are non Celtic in terms of genetic heritage

That conclusion was drawn because DNA tests indicate a lack of similarity between Ireland and Central Europe. But the idea that the Celts originated in Central Europe is a theory, not a fact; it is largely based on archaeological finds, which can only discover aspects of material culture, and do not necessarily have any bearing on the true culture, customs and language of a people, or of their general everyday life.

Now I know legends are usually garbled to some extent, but they often contain important facts which should not be dismissed lightly. Anyway, Celtic legends seem to claim that they came from Anatolia, then travelled across the Mediterranean and into Spain and/or France. The Gaels then went from Spain into Ireland and my theory is that the ancestors of the Britons went up through France and into Britain; others would have travelled east into Austria and picked up elements of the material culture which already existed there and subsequently spread it by conquest and contact, and of course, innovations tend to spread more quickly through areas which are already culturally and linguistically similar, so areas which were already Celtic could have picked up aspects of the Central European culture without actually being conquered.

Another thing is that the Celtic physical type (as discovered in Celtic Iron Age burials and also depicted in Roman carvings) was never very common in Central Europe and seems to have been mainly associated with the aristocracy there. It was furthermore much commoner in France and the British Isles, where not only the aristocracy but also the free commoners (who were, however, probably outnumbered by the serfs and unfree) appear to have been largely of the type.

So overall I think the evidence suggests that they did not originate in Central Europe.