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Thread: Million Whites Leave South Africa - Study

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    AW: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    @ Sinenomine:

    Please, I do hope that you understand me correctly when I refer to "pseudoliberal whites", who did not have any strong bonds with South Africa. I know that there are exceptions as many whites left after 1994 for personal and other reasons, which is a different matter.
    Last edited by Liberator Germaniae; Monday, October 2nd, 2006 at 03:44 PM. Reason: punctuation

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    Senior Member SineNomine's Avatar
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    Re: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    I understood - I am simply clarifying. I have little respect for those whites (and non-whites, like the many Indians and Jews there) who just came to leech from the nation.

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    AW: Re: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    Quote Originally Posted by SineNomine View Post
    I understood - I am simply clarifying. I have little respect for those whites (and non-whites, like the many Indians and Jews there) who just came to leech from the nation.
    Absolutely !

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    Senior Member Horagalles's Avatar
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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Euhesperides View Post
    ...A German passport is not crucial for a German identity in Namibia. All ethnic groups regard Germans living in Namibia as "Germans" regardless of the passport they might hold..
    They certainly understand the principle that one is German by blood and not by paper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euhesperides View Post
    Independence has had some benefits for local Germans. For instance, it was difficult for Germans to make a career in the civil service under the previous Afrikaans-dominated administration with its anti-German attitudes. After 1990, for the first time since the end of the German colonial period in 1915, a few (non-political) Germans have been promoted to high positions in the government and in parastatal organizations.
    You should also mention that Germans were interned and harassed before 1948. I would not say that the "the previous Afrikaans-dominated administration" had actually "anti-German attitudes" - You just had to be connected with the Broederbond (or with the masons in the private sector). But maybe you can give some examples I won't know of. I know the Transvaal better - and here Germans don't join the Civil service, but become technicians and engineers .
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Euhesperides View Post
    The present `German´ government does not care and the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs does have hostile attitudes towards Namibian Germans.
    This is true for all German overseas minorities. As soon as you give up BRD-citizenship, you feel almost like an outlaw on the globe. And as long you "keep" it, they don't care much either.

    But of course, a GERMAN government should pay special attention to the Südwester. And that they do not is one of the biggest shames and most obvious proof that they are a gang of traitors.
    The Namibian government does not tolerate dual citizenship.
    What happens when they find out someone is "dual"?
    Some 30.000 Germans lived in South West Africa / Namibia in the mid-70´s. Today’s exact figure should be somewhere between 20.000 and 30.000.
    There are no exact statistics?
    A German passport is not crucial for a German identity in Namibia. All ethnic groups regard Germans living in Namibia as "Germans" regardless of the passport they might hold.
    But I suppose, I couldn't settle down in SWA, could I? Or I have to marry one of the German girls there.
    Independence has had some benefits for local Germans. For instance, it was difficult for Germans to make a career in the civil service under the previous Afrikaans-dominated administration with its anti-German attitudes. After 1990, for the first time since the end of the German colonial period in 1915, a few (non-political) Germans have been promoted to high positions in the government and in parastatal organizations.
    Well, as you live in SWA, you know how it is. As a linguist, I know some things only from textbooks (as every good scientist ). I read a doctor-thesis of a Südwester from 1984. He described in detail the suppression of the German language by the Afrikaans-administration.

    But from 1984 till 1990, German was allowed as an official language, I think in a last effort of the South Africans, to "stabilize" the situation.

    And SWAPO immediately after getting power abolished German as official language. Even private institutions must not use it when they offer "public" services, because this would be "discrimination". So I think the situation is mixed up. Because my point of departure always is the language, I feel things are not in favour of the Germans.

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    What happens when they find out someone is "dual"? [...] There are no exact statistics? [...] But I suppose, I couldn't settle down in SWA, could I? Or I have to marry one of the German girls there. [...]. I read a doctor-thesis of a Südwester from 1984. He described in detail the suppression of the German language by the Afrikaans-administration. But from 1984 till 1990, German was allowed as an official language, I think in a last effort of the South Africans, to "stabilize" the situation. [...] And SWAPO immediately after getting power abolished German as official language. Even private institutions must not use it when they offer "public" services, because this would be "discrimination".
    The Namibian government expects its citizens to travel with one passport only. Namibian Germans (numbering 26.000?) therefore should avoid producing the wrong passport when stating that they are Namibian citizens when entering or leaving the country.

    Marrying a German girl with Namibian citizenship will qualify you automatically for permanent residence in Namibia, but not a Namibian passport.

    It is true that the former Administration of Whites (but not the central government!) recognised German as an `official´ language in the mid-1980´s, but this did not change or improve anything. This did not compel Afrikaaners or the English to learn a bit of German, whereas German pupils had to learn all three languages at school. The possible introduction of German as the second official language was however seriously discussed by SWAPO-delegates in the National Assembly in the first or second year of independence (1990). German is not widely spoken in Namibia; even the other two white population groups speak German in exceptional cases only.

    I think that the reason why private German institutions in Namibia are compelled to compile their statutes in English is a legal one only. It is up to Namibian Germans to cultivate their mother tongue and their traditions. Nobody else will do it for them.

    I will reply in detail to Horogalles´ questions about the anti-German attitudes of the Afrikaans-dominated system in the former South West Africa in my next contribution to this thread. I will also try to explain the possible causes of the rise of an anti-Afrikaans sentiment among Germans in SWA during the 20th century. This might seem to divert from the topic, but the way this discussion has developed shows how closely interlinked South Africa and Namibia still are!
    Last edited by Liberator Germaniae; Monday, October 2nd, 2006 at 04:06 PM. Reason: No. of Germans added

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    AW: Re: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post
    Where are the South Africans going? True, I hear more SA accents now in California than ever before but they are not all coming here. Are they going to Australia? I hope the Jewish SAs will go to Israel.
    White South Africans as well as Ex-Rhodesians usually emigrate to Australia (especially the Perth area), where they were used to be called "the new boat people".

    Jewish South Africans habitually join family members throughout the world when they decide to leave South Africa, but they have strong links with Israel, the USA, Britain and other English-speaking countries (SA-Jews considered themselves to be "Jewish South African English" although most of them originated from Eastern Europe in the 19th century = Ashkenazy!). So it is quite possible that the South African accents you have been hearing in California have actually been emanating from a Jewish mouth !

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    You should also mention that Germans were interned and harassed before 1948. I would not say that the "the previous Afrikaans-dominated administration" had actually "anti-German attitudes" - You just had to be connected with the Broederbond (or with the masons in the private sector). But maybe you can give some examples I won't know of.

    I am replying to Horogalles´ questions about anti-German attitudes of the Afrikaans-dominated system in the former South West Africa (SWA). I will also try to explain the possible causes of the rise of an anti-Afrikaans sentiment among Germans in SWA during the 20th century. The way the conversation of this topic has developed into a discussion about Afrikaans-German relations in SWA shows how closely interlinked the history of South Africa and Namibia actually is.

    Afrikaans-Germans relations had been extremely good until the outbreak of WW I. After the failure of the (pro-German) Maritz Rebellion (also called “Boer Revolt” or “Five Shilling Rebellion”) led by former Boer War generals (in South Africa) in 1914, troops of the Union of South Africa invaded German-South West Africa. This treachery caused extreme bitterness among Germans as there were many Afrikaaners among the Union troops (). After South Africa received the de iure mandatory power over the former German territory in 1920, the Afrikaans-dominated Union government immediately proceeded to settle mostly illiterate, low-class Angolan Afrikaaners, the descendants of the so-called “Dorslandtrekkers”, in SWA ().

    Nevertheless German immigration was tolerated and even encouraged by the mandatory power for one simple reason: only Germans were paying the loans on their acquired farms. In contrast, the debts that Angolan Boers had towards the administration were cancelled twice during the 1920´s (German farmers and not the majority of Afrikaans farmers were the main debtors of the Agricultural Bank of SWA until the 1970´s!) ().

    Germans in SWA became a minority white group already during the first decade of mandatory rule. The fact that SWA had been a German Protectorate, the rise of National Socialism in Germany and the above-mentioned events in SWA led to the rise of an (anti-South African) National Socialist movement (“Deutscher Bund”, banned in 1934?) in SWA. It is an irony that this movement and ideology was the strongest and most formidable force that the South African mandatory administration had to cope with in the 1930´s and 1940´s (). It was only in the 1950´s that black opposition became a serious factor.

    After South Africa declared war against Germany in 1939, all Germans (in SWA, but also South Africa!) had to fill in questionnaires regarding their political convictions. Usually women declared that they would take up arms in favour of Germany should the “Wehrmacht” approach the borders of SWA, while men stated that they would remain peaceful. In 1940 all adult German males (with a few exceptions) were deported by two trains to `internment camps´ (this is actually a decent word for `concentration camps´) at Andalusia, Baviaanspoort and Koffiefontein in South Africa, where they were guarded by armed black guards. During this time German women took care of the farms; most were “farminterniert”, which means, that they were practically under house arrest: for instance, when travelling to a nearby village or town to purchase groceries, they had to report to the nearest police station first. Such restrictions were only lifted a few years after WW II. For example, when my grandparents married in 1946, they had to apply for permission to hold a wedding reception, because more than five Germans were to attend the event ().

    Adult Germans who had been interned in South Africa were released in 1947/1948, but had to spend one more year in South Africa before they were allowed to return to SWA. During this last year they were compelled to live and work as labourers for white farmers. There were however many pro-German Afrikaans farmers, who disagreed with South Africa’s participation in WW II (it was this dissatisfaction that brought the National Party to power in 1948) and who were quite happy to host such German ex-detainees ().

    During WW II there had been frequent calls in the South African parliament and media to expropriate and expel SWA´s German population, but even Prime Minister Jan Smuts spoke out against this, warning that this could lead to a dangerous decrease of SWA´s white population figures ().

    Anyway, ethnic Germans in SWA, who were either stateless people or citizens of the enemy-country Germany, had the possibility to apply for what is termed `naturalisation´ after WW II. Many took advantage of this opportunity in order to retain their property. At the same time, the National Party came into power in South Africa in1948, and the great sense of insecurity came to an end for a while ().

    It was only from then on that a South African identity could develop among Germans in SWA. German, which was abolished in schools in the first year of the war, was re-introduced as a medium of instruction for German pupils at primary school level in the early 1950´s, and by 1976 this practice was extended to junior secondary school level.

    However, there was a simmering anti-German sentiment in the Afrikaans population (as many South African war veterans who had fought against Germany had been settled in SWA after WW II) as well as in the Afrikaans-run administration that did not promote ethnic Germans to high positions in the government. Germans made a living in the private sector, as they still to today, but I think it was the cultural and economic superiority of Germans that caused the (largely really very low-class and narrow-minded) Afrikaans community to feel insecure (Afrikaaners from SWA / Namibia have also been frowned upon by Afrikaaners in South Africa!).

    In the mid-1970´s the (black/largely Owambo-run) SWAPO-movement however intensified its armed struggle against civilian targets in SWA. Germans were particularly affected (terrorist attacks on farms owned by Germans (but not only Germans!), bomb explosions in German-run café’s in Windhoek and Swakopmund etc.). It has been suggested that the reason for this was that SWAPO, (supported by Yugoslavia’s anti-German dictator Tito) and the Soviet Union under Breznew considered Germans to be the only sedentary parts of the white population. It is quite possible that they had hoped that unsettling Germans in SWA would destabilise the whole white population. Sam Nujoma, the leader of SWAPO and Namibia’s first President, is even on record of stating in the 1970´s that there would be no place for Germans in an independent Namibia ( ).

    All this made it quite easy for Germans to regard the anti-communist South African government and state as their protector. With post-war Germany being in a mess, and Central Germany under communist rule, South Africa became another new fatherland. During this time the number of media reports hostile towards Germans in SWA also increased in Germany.

    However, an underlying anti-German sentiment continued to exist in the white-administered country of SWA. The politically progressive attitudes of Germans, who voted for the multi-racial DTA rather than the segregative AKTUR, `confirmed´ the suspicions and hostile attitudes that Afrikaaners in SWA had against Germans. Elections too place and the wife of the (white) National Party’s leader was even overheard saying that she doubted how one could vote for a German candidate (“Hoe kan ´n mens vir ´n Duitser stem!” she said in contempt). During this time, for instance, there was an Afrikaans youth gang in Windhoek that had a passion for beating up German kids. I remember, for example, how I was being spit at by Afrikaans children, when I was on my way home from school (), but I should also point out that were English kids (who shared their secondary school with Afrikaaners) who tried to restrain the said Afrikaans pupils.

    In 1989 the South African government agreed to UN-Resolution 435 for the independence of South West Africa / Namibia, and subsequent multi-racial elections brought the SWAPO-movement to power. White-instigated German-bashing came to a sudden end (), and from now on Afrikaaners began to feel what it is like to be a minority()! The black majority government immediately started phasing out German and other non-English languages as medium of instructions in schools, although German and Afrikaans were retained as subjects. As anti-Afrikaans attitudes prevailed among Germans, many former exclusively German schools (schools are now open to all races) eventually phased out Afrikaans totally because there was simply no demand for this language, and there are quite a number of German youths and young adults today in Namibia who do not speak Afrikaans very well, although adults and the elderly do speak Afrikaans fluently and have sentimental bonds with South Africa.

    But what implication does this have for the topic of this string, namely the large-scale emigration of whites from post-Apartheid South Africa? If, for instance, Germans in SWA were able to display a patriotic loyalty towards the Republic of South Africa despite their very unusual and many negative experiences of Afrikaans-dominated administrations and society’s in SWA and South Africa, then the many pseudo-liberal anti-Afrikaans English-speakers resident in South Africa must have been very superficial and shallow about their livelihood if they were able to give South Africa a miss when the white era came to an end!
    Last edited by Liberator Germaniae; Wednesday, October 4th, 2006 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Grammar

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    Re: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    Under white rule the average life expectancy for blacks was 34. Many were forced to work jobs that seperated them from their wives for years. They were also not allowed to visit their wives, when the latter lived as live-in servants for white families. The education facilities for blacks were sub-par and were not funded anywhere as much as the white students. Blacks were forced to move onto arid and infertile land. South Africa had at one point the 2nd highest standard of living (for whites) behind the United States. Not to mention the situation faced by East Indians in the country. If I were a Bantu South African I would be mad too. We can't just pretend as if we were benevolent rulers.
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

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    Re: Million whites leave South Africa - Study

    And neither will we capitulate to black rule though - if they are truly so inimical to racism, they shouldn't practise it themselves. We have a right to self-determination, and it is time we took advantage of it. If the blacks truly wanted to repair South Africa, they'd create a land of equal opportunities - not one of affirmative action biased against us. Maybe it is time we parted ways and let them have their own territories, and we keep hold of our own city-states.

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