View Poll Results: Children or career?

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  • Motherhood must come first, career second

    99 77.34%
  • Career must come first, motherhood second

    5 3.91%
  • Both are as important as the other

    24 18.75%
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Thread: Women: Children or Career?

  1. #91
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    Woman, 51, killed herself after 'sudden realisation' that she was too old to have children – but made sure her dogs were fed before she died



    Source: Daily Mail

    • Joanne Moller, from Lydney, Gloucestershire, wrote detailed suicide notes
    • On January 27 she sent a card which said she was going to Rodmore Woods
    • She was found the following day by the Severn Area Rescue Association
    • Several suicide notes were found with detailed instructions for her family as to what she wanted, including one giving the last time her dog was fed


    A 51-year-old woman killed herself after the 'sudden realisation' that she was too old to have children.

    Joanne Moller, from Lydney, Gloucestershire, wrote detailed suicide notes, which even stated when her beloved dog had last been fed, an inquest heard today.

    On January 27 she sent a card to her sister explaining that she was going to Rodmore Woods.

    Ms Moller had been reported missing by her family her who were concerned for her welfare and, despite a police appeal to track her down, she was found on January 28 by the Severn Area Rescue Association.

    She was kneeling in a foetal position with a number of tablets and a note nearby confirming she intended to take her own life, the Gloucester inquest was told.

    Two further notes were found with detailed instructions for her family as to what she wanted, including a note giving the last time her dog was fed.

    The court heard that she had been suffering moderate depression, chronic fatigue and Fibromyalgia, which were being treated by her GP. She had been on the mental health 'radar' since 2007 and her anxiety and suicidal ideation had been a long-standing problem for her.

    A GP report confirmed she had been engaging with mental health services including the local crisis team but she had cancelled various appointments.

    The last cancelled meeting was on January 27, just before she went missing

    An earlier appointment on December 30 last year had confirmed she had suicidal ideas but she told her GP she had no plans to act on these thoughts.

    The GP report said she was entering the menopause and had been showing concerns for her physical health as well as facing up to fact she could not have children.

    Senior Gloucestershire Coroner Katie Skerrett said: 'It is clear from the medical report she was suffering significantly with her mental and physical health but she was engaging with the crisis team and her GP.

    'There seemed to be a particularly low point in January where she was feeling isolated and the sudden realisation she couldn't have children. Also her relationship had broken down.'

    Recording a conclusion of suicide, Mrs Skerrett said: 'I am satisfied she intended to take her life. She took time to write detailed notes even including when her dog was last fed. She took herself where she knew she wouldn't be found.'
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  2. #92
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    While a woman's natural role is to be a mother, the difficult economic circumstances these days make it difficult for women to unequivocally reject the workforce. Back in the day, men could comfortably be the sole financial providers in their family. A father's salary usually sufficed to cover all the necessary expenses. Today that's no longer the case. Especially for married couples who have more than 1-2 children, a single salary might not suffice to pay for the necessities. Consequently, some women have entered the workforce in order to help with the costs and not necessarily because they see professional advancement as a personal goal.

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  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    While a woman's natural role is to be a mother, the difficult economic circumstances these days make it difficult for women to unequivocally reject the workforce. Back in the day, men could comfortably be the sole financial providers in their family. A father's salary usually sufficed to cover all the necessary expenses. Today that's no longer the case. Especially for married couples who have more than 1-2 children, a single salary might not suffice to pay for the necessities. Consequently, some women have entered the workforce in order to help with the costs and not necessarily because they see professional advancement as a personal goal.
    No, it's the other way around. Average salaries and individual purchasing power has gone down because women entered the workforce.

    I've also never met a woman who begrudgingly had to set out a career path for herself, instead of getting to be home with the kids. They always have the attitude towards their career and profession that it's something vitally important for their lives and well-being. I'm not in a position to say that it's not, but I really don't see any women who want to go back to the 'sole-provider order', except for maybe a minority of women in circles like Skadi.
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  6. #94
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    My wife feels it was the gravest mistake of her life to have worked throughout the early years of our first born, so afterward became a homemaker during and after her following pregnancies. There's a big difference in their relationships since and for the better. I've felt better being sole breadwinner and this has induced me to focus more on my own career development, being more vital since income does ride on me alone. Collaboration of finances is a sloppy matter and scheduling a nightmare. It's harder for a man to advance his profession to any real goals when he's got to worry about his wife's; no coordination or balancing act means no sacrifice and yet mutual enrichment. I don't think twice about sharing all I make with my family; I think "double Dutch" budgeting leads more to arguments about selfishness. With just my income, I mostly pick what I want for myself and my wife does for herself and our kids, but there are some crossovers for general needs like bills and wants like gifting.

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  8. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Şoreiğar View Post
    No, it's the other way around. Average salaries and individual purchasing power has gone down because women entered the workforce.

    I've also never met a woman who begrudgingly had to set out a career path for herself, instead of getting to be home with the kids. They always have the attitude towards their career and profession that it's something vitally important for their lives and well-being. I'm not in a position to say that it's not, but I really don't see any women who want to go back to the 'sole-provider order', except for maybe a minority of women in circles like Skadi.
    I used to be a stay at home mother and actually prefer to be one. I work at the moment because the economic crisis affected my husband's income and we could no longer afford to pay our basic expenses (we have three boys). So I am not interested in developing a career for my ego but only in supporting my husband until he gets back on his feet and is able to assume the role of a provider again. I know other women who are in the same situation.

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  10. #96
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    My dream occupation was always motherhood. I wasn't interested in being a career woman, however because I couldn't find a man who was interesting in forming a family with me, I had to enter the workforce to support myself. I didn't want to be a burden on my parents and had to consider the possibility I wouldn't find a partner, so I've had to work all this time. Luckily I met my husband in the meantime and we put some savings aside together to get ready to form a family. Now we're awaiting our first child. Once I found out about the pregnancy, I gave up working. I want to be involved in the bringing up of our children first hand, see them grow. My husband supports this decision. But I had to wait until my 30s for this dream of my own little family to come true... The truth is that finding a man who's willing to assume the role of fatherhood and especially sole family provider isn't easy, not in the modern circumstances. Most of the men I've met before my husband saw family and children as a financial burden or "slavery" and preferred to use their money for partying, video games, consoles and brand clothings and expected their girlfriends to work as well.

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  12. #97
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    Reproduction has to come first for xyz reasons but I resent modernity for putting me in this quandary because it's a deeply unhealthy dynamic. The farther that the nexus of society moves away from the home, the more the traditional gender role expectations for women become straitjackets.

  13. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    My dream occupation was always motherhood. I wasn't interested in being a career woman, however because I couldn't find a man who was interesting in forming a family with me, I had to enter the workforce to support myself. I didn't want to be a burden on my parents and had to consider the possibility I wouldn't find a partner, so I've had to work all this time. Luckily I met my husband in the meantime and we put some savings aside together to get ready to form a family. Now we're awaiting our first child. Once I found out about the pregnancy, I gave up working. I want to be involved in the bringing up of our children first hand, see them grow. My husband supports this decision. But I had to wait until my 30s for this dream of my own little family to come true... The truth is that finding a man who's willing to assume the role of fatherhood and especially sole family provider isn't easy, not in the modern circumstances. Most of the men I've met before my husband saw family and children as a financial burden or "slavery" and preferred to use their money for partying, video games, consoles and brand clothings and expected their girlfriends to work as well.
    This is one of the reasons we traditionally see so many women with older husbands. It requires a certain amount of maturity to realize that family is the one all-important thing in life. There aren't that many guys under 25 who are ready to settle down.

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    [02-10, 17:08] renownedwolf: same reason as the missus then.. give me stuff/affection..though she doesnt need me to let her out in the garden for a poo..

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  15. #99
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    For me, motherhood is more important than having a career. I'd like to be a stay at home wife, if possible, at least until my children start school, if not longer. Unfortunately, I don't know a lot of men who are willing to assume the role of a provider for their families. In a society that has strained from traditional roles, male gender roles have changed as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    There aren't that many guys under 25 who are ready to settle down.
    Unfortunately this is true in my experience as well. I can understand where Siebenbürgerin is coming from and I hope I don't have to wait until I'm 30+ to have my first child, or marry someone significantly older... On the other hand, men like my brother, who married with 23, with the intention to start a family give me some hope. They're probably still out there, just very rare.

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