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Thread: What is the significance of Human Sacrifice in the heathen tradition?

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    Question What is the significance of Human Sacrifice in the heathen tradition?

    Since the discussions in this section have rekindled my interest in Germanic heathenry and I got the impression there is substantial knowledge among you of the old and new ways of paganism, I'd like to ask a question that has been haunting me for some time already, that is:

    What is the significance not only of sacrifice in general but especially human sacrifice within the heathen tradition? And of what relevance can it be today?

    I am thinking particularly of the following aspects:

    (1) sacrifice of oneself in battle

    (2) sacrifice of enemies in battle

    (3) sacrifice of criminals

    (4) sacrifice of people who are neither enemies nor criminals

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    Re: Human Sacrifice

    I can not speak of pagan traditions of sacrifice as I am unqualified. However, I know that there is a denial amongst many modern Druid sects, for instance, of former human sacrifices being performed. Perhaps, this is due to embarrassment or fear of persecution by modern law enforcement and society.

    1. Sacrificing one's self in battle can no doubt have a positive effect upon a society if the sacrifice is seen as noble and honorable traits such as bravery, facing insurmountable odds, dying with honor, sacrifycing toward a cause, fighting for the preservation of Kultur, or defense of a Race by the home peoples of the warrior. The problem with warrior sacrificing is that eventually the most brave, strong, and honorable warriors are eliminated from the gene pool, thus leaving the inferior specimens to breed instead.

    The inferior men also breed with the warrior's women while the warriors are off fighting many times. This can still be seen in the U.S. Marines, for instance, regarding the "WestPac Widows" who mate with others while their husbands are deployed on Western Pacific tours. Inferior men also become surrogate fathers of the warrior's sons should the father be killed in battle or training and instill their weak ways upon the warrior's offspring.

    Also, inferior subjects and their seed gain higher positions in government, society, and business providing an advantageous environment for their offspring to better flourish over warrior types and the seed of the warrior. Eventually, warriors are stuck with the moniker of warmonger or cretin and placed in a bottle labeled break glass only in the event of war. As the superior DNA of the warriors is spilled upon the battlefield, the inferior DNA of the rejects is promulgated throughout the Home Race.

    Anti-family feminism can result as well for the women left behind may find themselves as the sole decision makers and providers of the family unit. Traditional male industrial work is pawned off onto females who must now don male apparel, remove feminine jewelry, and get shorter male hair-styles in order to work in this manufacturing environment. Due to the shortage of manly men, lesbianism spikes as well.

    Traditionally, race-mixing has spiked as well as the negroidal males were placed in close proximity to the White single females either in factories, rear echelon military positions, or in society in general. Ever see any crackhead niggers on the roles of the Medal of Honor winners?

    The resultant catastrophe is that the very noblest traits of the Race which first made them a strong Folk and victorious in battles are siphoned off and they atrophy into weaklings who succumb to enemies at the gate through inferiority from within.

    2. Killing one's enemies in battle can be most beneficial, however, if it is a jew-inspired fratricidal war of White killing noble White then it is the most horrific of all situations imaginable. With Americans, Germans, Italians, British, Scottish, Russian, Finnish, Irish, South African, New Zealand, Australian, Danish, Estonian, Hungarian, and many other Whites fighting one another in WWII, a great death blow was landed upon the White Race forever. Legions of superior Aryan genetics was wiped out as well.

    Another phenomenon can be the "nation building" as seen amongst modern Neo-Con countries where the brightest and best warriors along with massive capitol and material resources are expended to build up the very enemy nation which was conquered. Meanwhile, tens of millions of illegal alien third-world breeders back home invade the homeland and supplant the warriors while the warriors are deployed half a world away. Furthermore, intermarriage with the conquered peoples and emigration is an added potential threat of sacrificing one's enemy.

    3. Sacrificing criminals sound great at first. But what kind of sacrifice? Certainly, no noble sacrifice should be granted except for the rarest cases involving warriors who have committed certain crimes then receive a pardon through blood of sorts by being allowed to execute suicidal missions for the Homeland in battle.

    Sacrificing criminals for all of humanity, or at least the Home Race, in medical experimentations would both be more scientifically pertinent and ethically superior to sacrificing innocent animals, in my estimation.

    Sacrificing criminals through slave labor may also serve society well in many instances. But it is vital that we first purify the criminal in-justice system. Currently, it is polluted with jew judges, liberals, and riddled with anti-White sentiment. True "crime" must be defined, rather than, mere torts or legislative crimes. Being convicted for making a snuff film of torture/rape/murder of children is one thing. But being charged for murder for defending one's self or family or Folk is entirely different. Yet, both of these acts can be indistinguishable as crimes with punishments in some districts.

    So, let's publish an Aryan definition of what crime is and who the criminals are. Then, let's sacrifice away!

    4. Neither enemy or criminal? If you mean let's all dress up in black robes and sacrifice virgin Aryan girls to gain ethereal power in some pagan ritual, then absolutely not. However, the indians of the southwestern American desert utilized a cave crevice in a place called Colossal Caverns, Arizona to toss deformed babies and their mothers in, thus purifying their race.

    Granted, not enough was known about genetics or they didn't care in this patriarchal society to care to throw in the male breeding culprits as well.

    Now, if you mean to sacrifice mutants for medical experimentation and euthanization to further the eugenics of a Race, then this is a most beneficiary function. Albeit one of moral controversy amongst many indoctrinated White peoples of this day.

    Furthermore, there are rare exceptions of idiot savants, certain classical music composers, and scientific theorists such as Stephen W. Hawking who although suffering dehabilitation, contribute to our society regardless.

    It is my opinion, therefore, that it will take much wise council and far more pondering and discussion from all our Folk to best determine the most appropriate forms of sacrifice for all categories listed.

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    AW: Human Sacrifice

    Thanks @Kaiser for his post! Any comments from other Ásatrúar?

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    Re: AW: Human Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pervitinist View Post
    Thanks @Kaiser for his post! Any comments from other Ásatrúar?
    I know that in ancient Scandinavia
    they used to sacriface enemies and prisoners of war,

    and in parts of northern europe those guilty of breaking certain primordial laws were ritualistically killed, although I doubt that this was actually human sacriface

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    Re: Human Sacrifice

    For a hindu:

    (1) sacrifice of oneself in battle: most honorable. The Rajputs (Kshatriyas) fought among themselves to be the first. Another self-sacrifice was in defence of someone who was weak and powerless, for example, one who had come to you seeking shelter, commendable. Still another was in defence of an cultural idea, for example, in defence of a cow being killed, again commendable.
    (2) sacrifice of enemies in battle: That is duty and not sacrifice.
    (3) sacrifice of criminals: Impure things cannot be sacrificed.
    (4) sacrifice of people who are neither enemies nor criminals: That is murder, a crime. Not done, except in a lunatic unenlightened fringe who may believe that such an act can bring them any benefit and that any God or Godess would be pleased with that. Always punishable.

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    AW: Human Sacrifice

    Well, what we know about germanic history, the ancient Germanics used to bring human sacrifices to the gods. Mainly to Wodan and Tyr, of other gods I havent read yet. Maybe some were sacrificed to Donar too. What's quite interesting is that maybe the Valkyries were involved during the sacrificing process. Valkyrie means "she who chooses the dead", could mean that these women were some kind of female Wodan worshippers, who decided who was gonna be a sacrifice to Wodhanaz. So it could be possible, that there was a much more "real" background for the Valkyries as mythology seems to tell.

    However, I suppose many of these "chosen sacrifices" were indeed criminals and traitors. Its just pragmatic to get rid of these persons, who had to be killed anyway, serving a good purpose. When there was war and there were captured soldiers or warriors, many of them were used as sacrifices too. What else is important is, that some warriors volunteered to be sacrificed to Wodan, because they believed that they would go to Valhalla, committing ritual suicide. Some hanged themselves on trees, like their patron-god Wodan did, when he unriddled rune-knowledge, some were stabbed by spears as sacrifice to Tyr.

    So is human sacrifice necessary today? I would say yes, considering the nature of the gods. If you want to please the god of death, the ultimate way to do this, is to sacrifice a live beeing. And of all live beeings a strong, defeated enemy is the greatest sacrifice you can offer. This has not changed over the ages, the god of death is still the god of death and to please him there has to be sacrifice, be it man or beast. Another god may not need human or even animal sacrifices, it depends on the nature of the god/goddess and the aspects of life he or she is representing. For example, I never heared that there were people sacrificed to Freyja, although she is a wargoddess too.

    So to answer your questions in a short way:

    1 - Well, it is not seen as sacrifice if you die in battle, because you dont want to die, but to slay the enemy not fearing your own death while attempting this. Therefore you may come to Freyja's or Wodan's Hall. Your primary goal is not your own death, but your enemy's death. That your own death will be certain while fighting is a just "side-effect".

    2 - I dont know if you can count it as sacrifice if you slay enemies on the battlefield. Although I have to say that in some written texts within the Edda and also Gesta Danorum, the slaying of enemies has a kind sacrificing touch. A hero is sometimes praised for sending many warriors to Valhalla.

    3 - I would say yes. criminals were a great part of human sacrifices, just out of pragmatic thinking, although of course it was a greater sacrifice to sacrifice a worthy enemy.

    4 - Slaves could have been sacrificed. They counted as property like cattle, and as cattle was sacreficed from time to time, slaves were sacrificed too.
    "There can be no true friends without true enemies. Unless we hate what we are not, we cannot love what we are." Samuel Huntington

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    AW: Human Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by Gundahar View Post
    However, I suppose many of these "chosen sacrifices" were indeed criminals and traitors. Its just pragmatic to get rid of these persons, who had to be killed anyway, serving a good purpose. When there was war and there were captured soldiers or warriors, many of them were used as sacrifices too.
    This is an interesting point which i am however not completely sure about. Like Aupmanyav said, from a Hindu point of view the killing of traitors or criminals (#3 from my list) could not be considered a sacrifice in the proper sense because of the ritual impurity of the victims, while the killing of captured warrirors - to which one could add the killing of hostages - (#4) would even have to be considered as murder and thus a fortiori not as a proper form of sacrifice.

    Legal aspects aside I think especially the first aspect poses an interesting question: Did the old Germanics have a different view concerning the relation between sacrifice and purity, or was the ritualized killing of criminals more of an execution than a genuine sacrifice?

    1 - Well, it is not seen as sacrifice if you die in battle, because you dont want to die, but to slay the enemy not fearing your own death while attempting this. Therefore you may come to Freyja's or Wodan's Hall. Your primary goal is not your own death, but your enemy's death. That your own death will be certain while fighting is a just "side-effect".
    Well, when I said sacrifice of oneself in battle I was thinking first of all of berserker-like warriors who go into battle oblivious of themselves and in an ecstatic state of mind (often, as it seems, enhanced by certain drugs and meditative practices) where life and death are no longer of any importance. I would actually consider this a sacrifice of oneself, because when entering battle in such a state you completely leave your fate to the Gods and deliver yourself and your life to them as a kind of sacrifice letting them decide whether they accept it and let you die in battle or decline it and let you live.

    2 - I dont know if you can count it as sacrifice if you slay enemies on the battlefield. Although I have to say that in some written texts within the Edda and also Gesta Danorum, the slaying of enemies has a kind sacrificing touch. A hero is sometimes praised for sending many warriors to Valhalla.
    This is another aspect where I am grateful for Aupmanyavs remark that fighting - and eventually killing - an enemy in battle can also be considered as a duty and thus not as a sacrifice.

    There remains, however, the question of what it is that you call a "sacrificing touch". Could it not be that the fulfilling of the duty of battle was at the same time regarded as an act of sacrifice to the Gods - and not necessarily in a metaphorical sense but as a genuine form of sacrifice?

    So is human sacrifice necessary today? I would say yes, considering the nature of the gods. If you want to please the god of death, the ultimate way to do this, is to sacrifice a live beeing. And of all live beeings a strong, defeated enemy is the greatest sacrifice you can offer. This has not changed over the ages, the god of death is still the god of death and to please him there has to be sacrifice, be it man or beast. Another god may not need human or even animal sacrifices, it depends on the nature of the god/goddess and the aspects of life he or she is representing. For example, I never heared that there were people sacrificed to Freyja, although she is a wargoddess too.
    Now this is the really controversial question. According to present-day 'human rights' standards it might be hard to reintroduce human sacrifice as a legitimate element of modern warfare - or isn't it? At least in a metaphorical sense even today there is talk of 'sacrificing' the lives of innocent people who are counted as 'collateral damages' within the setting of a 'just war' that is lead not for the Gods but for an idea like that of 'liberty' as some kind of 'deified' abstraction. So reintroducing sacrifice to the Gods might not be such an absurd idea after all. I'm sure, however, that the UN would not agree with that.

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    AW: Human Sacrifice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pervitinist View Post
    This is an interesting point which i am however not completely sure about. Like Aupmanyav said, from a Hindu point of view the killing of traitors or criminals (#3 from my list) could not be considered a sacrifice in the proper sense because of the ritual impurity of the victims, while the killing of captured warrirors - to which one could add the killing of hostages - (#4) would even have to be considered as murder and thus a fortiori not as a proper form of sacrifice.

    Legal aspects aside I think especially the first aspect poses an interesting question: Did the old Germanics have a different view concerning the relation between sacrifice and purity, or was the ritualized killing of criminals more of an execution than a genuine sacrifice?
    If you look at historical records you can see that there was made a difference between possible sacrifices. For example: When the Romans were defeated in Teutoburgerwald, they didnt sacrifice everybody. Almost every roman officer was sacrificed and most of the normal soldiers were made slaves. So they did indeed discriminate between sacrifices of higher and of lower value. But that doesnt mean, that sacrificing of men of lower value was forbidden.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pervitinist View Post
    Well, when I said sacrifice of oneself in battle I was thinking first of all of berserker-like warriors who go into battle oblivious of themselves and in an ecstatic state of mind (often, as it seems, enhanced by certain drugs and meditative practices) where life and death are no longer of any importance. I would actually consider this a sacrifice of oneself, because when entering battle in such a state you completely leave your fate to the Gods and deliver yourself and your life to them as a kind of sacrifice letting them decide whether they accept it and let you die in battle or decline it and let you live.
    The Berserkers didnt give themselves up into the hands of a deity. They were special warriors, because their fury and the drugs made them immune to pain. They did bluster themselves into battlerage and then they had only one goal, destroy the enemy at all costs. And if they died during this fight, they knew they were going to go to Wodan or Freyja. What I mean is, that they didnt give themselves up to a deity, but remained warriors who lived for their own cause, and this cause was fame and victory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pervitinist View Post
    This is another aspect where I am grateful for Aupmanyavs remark that fighting - and eventually killing - an enemy in battle can also be considered as a duty and thus not as a sacrifice.
    That's what I mean, that counts for germanic heathenry too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pervitinist View Post
    There remains, however, the question of what it is that you call a "sacrificing touch". Could it not be that the fulfilling of the duty of battle was at the same time regarded as an act of sacrifice to the Gods - and not necessarily in a metaphorical sense but as a genuine form of sacrifice?
    Yes, but in another way than sacrificing "normal" sacrifices. To kill honorable foes and so send them to the halls of the slayn, is a kind of "good" deed. Not only from the perspective of the slayer, but also from the point of view of the slayn, and also from the perspective of Wodan and Freyja, because they get these worthy men into their halls, where they belong. You have to know that the Norns, have already set the fate for each of these warriors, and to be slayn by a hero is a honorable way to die and opens up the road to Valhalla or Sessrumnir.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pervitinist View Post
    Now this is the really controversial question. According to present-day 'human rights' standards it might be hard to reintroduce human sacrifice as a legitimate element of modern warfare - or isn't it? At least in a metaphorical sense even today there is talk of 'sacrificing' the lives of innocent people who are counted as 'collateral damages' within the setting of a 'just war' that is lead not for the Gods but for an idea like that of 'liberty' as some kind of 'deified' abstraction. So reintroducing sacrifice to the Gods might not be such an absurd idea after all. I'm sure, however, that the UN would not agree with that.
    Oh yeah, the human rights. Of course we cant do sacrifices anymore today, because of legal restrictions. But that doesnt change what's right and what's wrong. Laws might have changed and so the attitude of the majority of the people, but the gods remain the same. But I want to remark, that human sacrifice is not needed in germanic heathenry. You can worship every god or goddess without it, but the ultimate ritual to honor certain gods (Wodan, Tyr) is the human sacrifice. But other germanic deities may not even need them.
    "There can be no true friends without true enemies. Unless we hate what we are not, we cannot love what we are." Samuel Huntington

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    Re: AW: Human Sacrifice

    "In The Viking World we are given an account of an important festival involving the grim cult practices of the god Odin joined with the number nine:

    "In addition, Adam says that a major festival was held every nine years, lasting nine days, and attended by men from all over Sweden, bringing gifts. Christians who refused to attend had to buy themselves off with a fine. At this festival the sacrifice consisted of nine men and nine males each of several types of animals including dogs and horses: the blood was offered to the gods, and the bodies hung from from branches of a nearby grove..."(Simpson 169)."

    More:
    http://lindamunson1.tripod.com/riderstotheseaodin/

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