Edred Thorsson [Stephen Flowers]: Wisdom for the Wolf Age

[NormanBlood]

I have read a few books by Edred Thorsson and have found them quite informative. Though in some cases I see him teettering on the brink of "neo pagan" level. I also believe that his writings can perhaps give those just discovering Odinism a little insight into the runes and Teutonic mythology. Makes one look past the surface of Yggdrasil and the nine worlds. For example, I feel that Valhalla is not a material warrior's hall, but something which is past on through the blood. It is like saying if one lives a truly noble life and dies in battle, whether mental or physical, their memory will be passed on to their descendants and will not be forgotten. They will be eternal in that sense. Thorsson suggests that Asgard is the consciousness, Vanaheim is balance, Ljossalfheim the intellect and so on and links them all together. I also learned quite a bit about variety within runic carvings. Blending certain runes together for example and the Icelandic galdor staves.

I'm interested in what other Heathens think of Thorsson, his ideas and his books.

[Moody]

I admire him immensely.
His 'Futhark' is a standard work; also his translations of difficult to obtain works [i.e., von Lists's 'Secret of the Runes'] has done much to widen the culture of Anglo-Pagans.

I am not sure though, if the Elder Futhark should be seen as the basic row - what do you think?

[NormanBlood]

Thank you for the reply Moodless. Hmmm I used to think that the Elder Futhark should be seen as the basic row, but the past 2 months I've been really thinking about it as I read different texts. First of all, the main reason I first thought the Elder Futhark should be considered the basic row is because of pretty much its age and that it would be its rows that would best represent the initial meanings/ideas of our ancestors. For example looking at the transition from mannaz, which represented not just humanity but the mental order of our gods, to madhr, the human being as a whole. On first glance the Younger would appear less complex and less insightful, but then when one thinks about it is the shortening of the rows which makes it more complex. Gives us more to think on. The evolution of thought.

So I, like yourself, am not sure whether the Elder Futhark should be considered the basic or the Younger. What are some of your thoughts on the matter?


Btw, there was a book he wrote called "The Nine Doors of Midgard" or something to the effect and from the reviews I read it seemed rather interesting. Have you read or seen it anywhere for sale by any chance?

[Moody]

Btw, there was a book Edred wrote called "The Nine Doors of Midgard" or something to the effect and from the reviews I read it seemed rather interesting. Have you read or seen it anywhere for sale by any chance?

I do have a copy of that book; it is an attempt to give a full study course in Runic Heathenism; so the Runes are central, but all other aspects such as culture, history, philosophy etc., are dealt with alongside.
It contains all the known Rune poems and also the Havamal; it also has the various exercises for body and voice etc.,
Even the detailed reading list alone make Nine Doors a great book.
www.runegild.org

Going back to the Elder Futhark, I note that Edred intended his breakthrough book 'Futhark' to be based on the Younger Futhark [or rather von List's version of this shorter, Viking rune row, called the Armanen], but he changed his mind and adpated his material to the Elder.

Of course, the Elder is directly assimiable to the alphabet, and so can be used as a writing script with much less ambiguity than the Younger [we notice how the Vikings themselves had to use devices like dotted runes etc., when writing in the Younger to make it more comprehensible]. But is this what the Runes are for, merely writing?
No, they are primarily symbolic, their linguistic interest being mainly in the area of root etymologies etc.,

I wonder whether there are some staves in the Elder which are just there to represent letter sounds [as in the Latin alphabet], and do not have the deep symbolic meaning?
I am thinking of Perthro, of course.

The way that von List and his followers tied their version of the Younger to the Havamal gives every stave a profound resonance; also, this shorter version is leaner and meaner.
I have given this link before as it uses the von List version;
www.armanen.org

I am interested in the idea of reverse runes - i.e., where, when casting runes they fall in reverse form and then suggest the opposite meaning. On the basis of this we can invent diabolic rune rows to curse our enemies with!

[Julius]

Just a little side-note on runes.

This guy called Kalle the rune carver makes his own runestones. Quite cool. : )

Unfortunately, it seems he hasn't yet translated the runecarver school into English.

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

I have read Thorsson's Rune Might and corresponded with him briefly. As I recall, he had an advanced degree in German Language and had studied in Germany. His comments on places of power were informative.

BUT, I am told on good authority, by an Odinist who is a member of this forum, that "Thorsson" is not his real name, that in real life "Edred" stems from a fine southern Jewish family in the USA--a family full of lawyers.

[Moody]

I have read Thorsson's Rune Might and corresponded with him briefly. As I recall, he had an advanced degree in German Language and had studied in Germany. His comments on places of power were informative.

BUT, I am told on good authority, by an Odinist who is a member of this forum, that "Thorsson" is not his real name, that in real life "Edred" stems from a fine southern Jewish family in the USA--a family full of lawyers.

I know that he also writes under the name of Stephen Flowers; if he is Jewish [which I doubt], it may answer the question of why he suddenly turned away from writing his Futhark in the von Listian rune row.

The von Listian rune row is too powerful for Jews to harness!

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

Yes, Moody Lawless, that is his real name. I have no idea why he does what he does. He has a great deal of book learning. I have never heard of the Rune you mentioned and you probably know a great deal about this subject.

I have a question. I began "breathing the Runes" in part of counteract the Kaballah which I feel is all around us. I recited every Rune I could find, nine times (very slowly) on my long ride to work in a car, alone. My question and problem came when "rational dreams" surfaced. Are you familiar with these? In dreams, which are normally irrational, you suddenly become rational and able to explain things in your dreams to others, for example, as you would when you are awake. It is said that your mentor gives you problems or assignments at this point but it was all too much for me. I simply got no rest. Rational dreams were about as restful as staying awake all night. After some time, I had to give this up. Any suggestions?

[Vindler]

Sorry to appear negative in my first posting to this forum, but as an Odinist of many years, I cannot recomend Edred THrosson ( Stephen Flowers) works really. He himself has never claimed to be an Odinist but has admitted his involvement in the Temple Of Set. Set is a semitic deity, the thought process and psychology attached to adhering to a semitic way are not Indo European/Aryan and not Odinist.
Hail The High Ones.
PS I was interested to read that piece on Odinism which cam efrom teh Odinic Rite, I see it said part 1, are there any other parts to this? if so has anyone got them?

[NormanBlood]

I am interested in the idea of reverse runes - i.e., where, when casting runes they fall in reverse form and then suggest the opposite meaning. On the basis of this we can invent diabolic rune rows to curse our enemies with.

At first I thought the reversed Runes were quite interesting, then I started reading about the branch Runes and the tent Runes. I love that sort of thing, it makes you think even more than looking at the Runes by themselves.

Of course, the Elder is directly assimiable to the alphabet, and so can be used as a writing script with much less ambiguity than the Younger [we notice how the Vikings themselves had to use devices like dotted runes etc., when writing in the Younger to make it more comprehensible]. But is this what the Runes are for, merely writing?

Yes, the Elder is definetly easier to write it, but as you said, the Runes are not specifically for that. Also, writing to the pre-christian Scandinavians and Vikings was a lot more sacred than with the Roman alphabet. I believe that if to cast the Runes were as "casual" a thing as the Latin alphabet they would have used other material other than wood or stone to carve them in. But that would defeat the whole purpose of course. This is why the Runes are for much more than writing. In reality, in order to write using the Runes, especially the Younger, one would have to be very knowledgable as to their symbolic meaning as well as their linguistic meaning.

Pertho still has meaning though, it may not be as deep or "magical" as lets say Sowilo, but it still has meaning though as we see with the transition between Elder and Younger its meaning was easily taken by other Runes. Perhaps it was more "filler", who knows.

I have never read much about the armanen Runes, I've always concentrated on the Elder and Young Futharks. Thank you for the link though, I'll read through the webpage. What do you think, in general, of the Armanen Runes and von List's claim of "discovering them" in a similar state as Odin did when he brought the Runes to man? (or at least so I've heard von List did so).

As for Thorsson himself here is a picture I found:



He seems very pro-Teutonic in all his books that I've read, it would be interesting to learn something of his own ancestry. Though I remember something about his mentioning an Anglo-Saxon heritage...I don't know though.

Vindler, I have never heard about him say anything about the Temple of Set or any other Egyptian god. In everything I've read about him he emplies he is an Odinist. If anything I've heard he is involved with many Asatru groups.