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Thread: Did the Aryans invade India?

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    Re: Did the Aryans invade India?

    Agni was not the king of heaven, it was indra. Only those who do not know hinduism will see darkness. Agni is the mouth of the Gods. It accepts for the Gods the oblations that we offer to them. He is the carrier. He even carries the Pitras to their land. There is no confusion. But Agni also is from the Purusha, from the Brahman. Hindus do not see differences, they see unity, unlike those of the Abrahamic religions. See in 'Did Aryans invade India', Hiranyagarbha Sukta, Verse 7.

    'What time the mighty waters came, containing the universal germ, producing Agni, Thence sprang the Gods' one spirit into being.'

    'When the earth is beginning to roast', illusions. Does the roasting affect Brahman. Once one realizes THIS, there is no fear, no unhappiness, no doubt. Brahman is 'Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram' (Truth, Eternity, Beautiful).

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    Re: Did the Aryans invade India?

    Well , in respect of this threadname - at least we can agree there was no real Invasion of the Aryans from the north - since that would imply a mighty battle ....and you say they were welcomed & whom am I to argue with that. It is useful to know that the civilization of the Indus had collapsed in advance of their coming - maybe they were sent to save India, who knows!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
    'When the earth is beginning to roast', illusions.... Does the roasting affect Brahman. Once one realizes THIS, there is no fear, no unhappiness, no doubt. Brahman is 'Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram' (Truth, Eternity, Beautiful).
    ... so we shouldn't be too worried when we hear stories of global warming and of its impact on modern India - the falling of the water tables, the increasing difficulties & depths in extracting water for farming and the like. It is All one in Brahman... the One knows best , it has all happened before, nothing new...

    Well they could of course keep the rivers clean and take the waters from the snow... but its a long way to the south. Predictions are that it will become very hot....these have their origin in 'science' not theology. Or am I mistaken ?
    Last edited by Carl; Wednesday, January 17th, 2007 at 03:09 PM.

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    Re: Did the Aryans invade India?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    It is useful to know that the civilization of the Indus had collapsed in advance of their coming - Predictions are that it will become very hot .. these have their origin in 'science' not theology. Or am I mistaken ?
    You are not mistaken, with the melting of glaciers, water in rivers is going to be less. The future is not going to be easy. But I suppose, humans will find an answer. There is abundant supply of wind, sun, and tides. They would have to be ingeneous.

    Indus Valley was not the only place where Indians lived. Many must have moved east and south, cleared forests and established settlements. Some might have moved to north, where the rivers had more water now. Perhaps Aryans were already there by that time. So we have Sarayupareen brahmins (who crossed the Sarayu River), Kanyakubjas who settled between rivers Ganga and Yamuna, and Maithils who went to Terai region bordering Nepal; and Sage Agastya, supposedly the first Aryan who crossed the middle-Indian Vindhyachal mountains, and the Saraswat brahmins in Maharashtra.

    Carl, I am going to the city of Nawabs, the city of culture, the city of beautiful Urdu poetry, the city of exquisite quisine, Lucknow, for two days. Incidently the original city is supposed to have been founded by Lakshman,
    Lord Rama's brother. Fare well.

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    Re: Did the Aryans invade India?

    I Sincerily Have A Problem, That Aryans Could Have Come From Somewhere Other Than India.... This Theory Is A Recent Invention Of Colonial Countries... Why Indian History Needs To Be Manipulated In Favor Of Colonial History Is My Prime Question. Evidently, Nobody Could Prove That Aryans Came From Outside India. The Whole Platform Was Like If Someone Accused Someone To Be A Whore, And Only Then, Went On To Look For Evidence... Of Course, Then There Is This White Skin Normadic People Inputs, Which Are Complete Nonsense... Rg Veda Has An Astrological Figuration That Only Points To India. Politics Of Aryans Needs To End... After That, We Can Get On To Its Spiritual Aspects. If Aryans Could Say, The World Is My Family, Where Is The Conflict Of Race... People Should Get Over This Race Holdup, And Work Toward Betterment Of Humanity...

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    Re: Did the Aryans invade India?

    Most evidence points to an eastern European origin of the Indo-Europeans, which means Aryan culture came to both India and western Europe from the outside.

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    Re: Did the Aryans invade India?

    If you sincerely have a problem, that is perfectly all right; because where there is a sincerity in a discussion, it leads to better understanding and not to acrimony. As our books say, 'Tejaswi Navadhitamastu, ma vidwishamahi' (Let our discussions be brilliant, let us not quarrel). The problem is complex, I understand that, 1. There is no import of new DNA, and 2. There is no replacement of culture. Also unexplained are the mention in Rig-Veda of 1. Of a year of seven months (Seven sons of Aditi and the eighth born undeveloped, Martanda (Dead Egg), 2. Of a long night (Ati Ratra) which could extend to a 100 days and no more, 3. Dawns, thirty sisters, and 4. Priests who completed their sacrificial sycle in seven, nine, or ten months (Saptagu in Avesta; navagwaha, dashagwah in Rig-Veda). The third option is Aryans from Andronovo or nearby regions. All views have points in their favour.

    But one thing must be understood. Indian culture and influence in history was not limited to the banks of River Indus but it extended at least up to Hindukush mountains, and probably beyond in Afghanistan, North-eastern Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, or even parts of Sinkiang. It was the dominant culture in the region.

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    Re: Did the Aryans invade India?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
    I understand that, 1. There is no import of new DNA, and 2. There is no replacement of culture.
    That's a fairly bold assertion. What's the evidence? I'm also curious how you reconcile your belief that the Aryan homeland was Arctic, with the assertion that there was no Aryan invasion of India.

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    Re: Did the Aryans invade India?

    Siegfried, I would write about the DNA and culture change soon (need to search the net for reports I had seen). As for reconciling Aryans from Arctic and no invasion, the only way out is that they remained in north of Hindukush for a long time (something like 12,000 years ago, and probably went to Andronovo from there, Merv/Ariana being the second homeland of Aryans as per Zoroastrian Avesta, out of total sixteen), slowly mixed with people of Indian origin and later (more than 5,000 years ago), percolating to Indus valley and further south in Saraswati River region. By that time, the two cultures had reached an equilibrium, adopted a mix of the philosophies of both, and probably were intermarrying. When Saraswati failed around 1,900 BC due to tectonic causes, they migrated south and east in the Indian subcontinent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryas are coming View Post
    I Sincerily Have A Problem, That Aryans Could Have Come From Somewhere Other Than India.... This Theory Is A Recent Invention Of Colonial Countries... Why Indian History Needs To Be Manipulated In Favor Of Colonial History Is My Prime Question. Evidently, Nobody Could Prove That Aryans Came From Outside India. The Whole Platform Was Like If Someone Accused Someone To Be A Whore, And Only Then, Went On To Look For Evidence... Of Course, Then There Is This White Skin Normadic People Inputs, Which Are Complete Nonsense... Rg Veda Has An Astrological Figuration That Only Points To India. Politics Of Aryans Needs To End... After That, We Can Get On To Its Spiritual Aspects. If Aryans Could Say, The World Is My Family, Where Is The Conflict Of Race... People Should Get Over This Race Holdup, And Work Toward Betterment Of Humanity...
    Sidereal astrology is the Indian understanding and most scientific observation of the zodiac. Aryans are nomads, if you understand the Scythians, Sakas or Saxons. We wouldn't be all around the world if not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried View Post
    Most evidence points to an eastern European origin of the Indo-Europeans, which means Aryan culture came to both India and western Europe from the outside.
    Eastern Europe or Central Asian Steppe? East of the Urals for sure, but the actual origin is Siberia. It's said that we supplanted the Mediterranean Y-DNA, but in so doing, did we not supplant our own Oriental mtDNA M hg by taking the mothers, sisters, wives and daughters of palaeo-Europeans with Occidental N hg? This would mean we had Asian mothers as well as Asian fathers, like perchance half of the Amerindian females continued on with when they crossed Beringia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
    If you sincerely have a problem, that is perfectly all right; because where there is a sincerity in a discussion, it leads to better understanding and not to acrimony. As our books say, 'Tejaswi Navadhitamastu, ma vidwishamahi' (Let our discussions be brilliant, let us not quarrel). The problem is complex, I understand that, 1. There is no import of new DNA, and 2. There is no replacement of culture. Also unexplained are the mention in Rig-Veda of 1. Of a year of seven months (Seven sons of Aditi and the eighth born undeveloped, Martanda (Dead Egg), 2. Of a long night (Ati Ratra) which could extend to a 100 days and no more, 3. Dawns, thirty sisters, and 4. Priests who completed their sacrificial sycle in seven, nine, or ten months (Saptagu in Avesta; navagwaha, dashagwah in Rig-Veda). The third option is Aryans from Andronovo or nearby regions. All views have points in their favour.

    But one thing must be understood. Indian culture and influence in history was not limited to the banks of River Indus but it extended at least up to Hindukush mountains, and probably beyond in Afghanistan, North-eastern Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, or even parts of Sinkiang. It was the dominant culture in the region.
    I keep seeing this Hippie 'good vibes' propaganda about India from you, but there are so many tensions in the entire region that threaten WWIII and it's not like Buddhism even made the Mongols pacifists, no matter what their stated intentions were. Ideal and actual are a far cry from each other, as we see so-called 'peaceful' monks churn out one martial art after another.

    There is still a genetic division between North and South India, between I.E. R hg and Dravidian H hg. How can this be easily brushed aside, especially when it was the pre-colonial caste system that maintained it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried View Post
    That's a fairly bold assertion. What's the evidence? I'm also curious how you reconcile your belief that the Aryan homeland was Arctic, with the assertion that there was no Aryan invasion of India.
    I agree that the *sub-Arctic was our homeland. The natural landscape of fauna and flora in the Taiga seem 'pristine' to me in the sense that Semites look at the Fertile Crescent (or whatever) as Eden. I have an immediate affinity to continental climate species and salubrious seasonality.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_climate


    Quote Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
    Siegfried, I would write about the DNA and culture change soon (need to search the net for reports I had seen). As for reconciling Aryans from Arctic and no invasion, the only way out is that they remained in north of Hindukush for a long time (something like 12,000 years ago, and probably went to Andronovo from there, Merv/Ariana being the second homeland of Aryans as per Zoroastrian Avesta, out of total sixteen), slowly mixed with people of Indian origin and later (more than 5,000 years ago), percolating to Indus valley and further south in Saraswati River region. By that time, the two cultures had reached an equilibrium, adopted a mix of the philosophies of both, and probably were intermarrying. When Saraswati failed around 1,900 BC due to tectonic causes, they migrated south and east in the Indian subcontinent.
    Is 'invasion' too strong a word, or are you only fixated on modern disputes, like 'Hindutva' vs 'Islamistan'? Aryans moved in and protected their position the best they could by caste organisation, but some indeed 'went native' and lost Aryan status as a result. Some Dravidians may have been adopted into Aryan society, but they were obviously not favoured to inherit.

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