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Thread: Moslem National Socialists? / NS and Islam

  1. #21
    Senior Member ogenoct's Avatar
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    Post Re: Islam’s Nazi Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimr
    Himmler was the only good Nazi, he was insane, loved his family, was a really ungermanic nordicist and enjoyed picking flowers more than making war! Himmler was the perfect Aryan!
    True dat!

    Constantin

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    Account Inactive Saoirse's Avatar
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    Post Re: Islam’s Nazi Connections

    Grimr
    enjoyed picking flowers more than making war! Himmler was the perfect Aryan!
    The Jews, Britain and France declared war on Germany in 1933 and 1939.

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    Post Re: Islam’s Nazi Connections

    Today´s Islam roots are in the ancient India, the Sikh´s (a indian warrior-monks) are a people who´s just on the frontier of both religions: hinduism and islam. Certainly if one read´s the Bhagavad-Gita and the Quran as well,he will see the similarity of the doctrines, both convide to practice the Karma yoga (the goods action ´s yoga), the Bakti yoga (devotion to the Lord), and The jnana Yoga (self domination yoga). Well, in my point of view the islam doctrine its also relationated (for its echos) with the Kalachakra tantra, and evidently the fight against evil (Iblis or Israel like is called by The Quran) or jihad, the sacred war, can be asociated with The Mahabharata´s epic battle, "source" of the bhagavad-gita. Some popular muslims meditations like the "dhirk´s" (remembering the Lord), can be founded and explained as well at Pantajali´s Yoga book. Finally I think that the aryans roots of the hidden Knowledge of the muslim doctrines (In some way relationated also with the Mazdeism) can´t be denied.

    I´ve said this because it´s evident the Hitler´s rol as avatar and his connections with the oldest sacred traditions of Tibet (and India as well) and its relation with the jihad or sacred war against the evil.

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    Senior Member rhadley's Avatar
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    Post Questions About Islam and National Socialism

    Got this off JRW's Dave Myatt site. Interesting, or what?



    Questions About Islam and National Socialism




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    Note by JRW, June 2004 AD: The following is taken from the original text of an Interview Myatt gave, to an American academic, last year - before the invasion of Iraq. The interview is due to be published in a book due out later this year or early next year.


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    The far right’s reaction to the September 11 attack seems to have been mixed. Many in the movement expressed feelings of vindication insofar as many of the issues about which they feel strongly (e.g., immigration and American foreign policy in the Middle East), featured prominently in the attack. Others were less sanguine about the current state of affairs and feared that the government’s war on terror could spillover into a witch hunt against domestic extremists as well. What are your thoughts on this issue? Ultimately do you think that 9/11 and its consequences will hinder or improve conditions for the far right in the future?

    A:
    Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem

    The attacks have certainly been used, by ZOG, to increase their tyranny, as witness the surveillance, the new laws, the many arrests and detentions. They have also been used to appeal to a vacuous "patriotism" based upon the abstract, non-folkish, concept of "The State".

    In the long-term, this can be to advantage of folkish groups, since such things reveal the real nature and intent of those who wield power, as it reveals the insolent, dishonourable, nature of such governments. In the short-term, it will probably lead to some government suppression of folkish dissent, but given good leadership, and the correct understanding of such things as honour, this will not be much of a problem.


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    Although white racial nationalism and militant Islam are two seemingly disparate movements, the two seem to share a very similar critique on issues such as American foreign policy, the American media, Zionism, and globalization (i.e., NWO). Thus under certain conditions, there could conceivably be potential for greater collaboration between the movements. What do you think are the prospects for a potential alliance between Islam and the far right? Would you recommend against such an alliance?

    A: There is a potential for collaboration, but only if "the movement" understands and acts upon their own Aryan values, their own ethics. The main problem with this nationalist/folkish/NS "movement" at the moment is that it is shallow, concentrating on outer issues: it lacks a real knowledge and understanding of what being Aryan means and implies and what true Aryan culture is. As a result a lot of the attitudes and views of people in "the movement" are wrong, dishonourable, un-Aryan.


    These people must know, understand, and act upon their Aryan ethics, which are based upon personal honour. In addition, they must understand that their aim should be to create an Aryan society, governed according to their own Aryan laws, and that this new society can and should co-operate with other societies, other cultures, other races, on the basis of reason and honour. Their honourable aim should be an independent, Aryan, ethnic, society, found upon honour, reason and duty to folk and culture.

    Honour demands that we treat people - irrespective of their race, their religion, their beliefs, with respect. I quote what I wrote a while back - before my conversion to Islam - to an imprisoned Comrade:

    "As I have endeavoured to explain several times, how we as National-Socialists and Aryans relate to people of other races and other religions is determined by our own National-Socialist, Aryan ethics. Our ethics are based upon personal honour, and honour demands of us that we only ever judge a person on the basis of personal knowledge of them: and moreover, with this personal knowledge of a person extending over a period of time. If we have no personal knowledge of a person, or have only met a person once or a few times briefly, then we cannot in all honour make any judgement about them. The race, the religion, and of course the political views of the person are totally irrelevant. Honour demands that we treat people, regardless of their race, their culture, their religion, their "political views" with fairness and respect. That is, honour demands that we have manners and are polite: that we strive to act with nobility of character; that we judge people by their deeds and in particular by how they act toward us... It really is about time that we who uphold the noble way of life which is National-Socialism lived according to our own ethics and began to explain, openly and in clear words, the noble reality of National-Socialism. No matter how dire our situation may be, or appears to be, and no matter how many non-Aryans may live in what were once our own nations, we must hold fast to our own ethics and not allow ourselves be tricked into accepting the Zionist version of "National Socialism" with its hate-filled, irrational, Hollywood "nazis".

    The reality is that we both have the same enemies: the materialistic capitalist system, and the cabal who run the NWO. It is in both our interests to fight and destroy the NWO. If there were a nationalist or National-Socialist revolution in America this would be to the great advantage of the Muslims. One goal of the NWO is to reduce everything to material needs and material concerns, and this attempt to destroy the numinous is hubris: the insolence of the tyrant. Both the authentic Islam of the Jihadi movements, as exemplified by groups such as The Base of Jihad, and genuine National-Socialism - as exemplified in my own NS writings - are numinous alternatives to the insolent, materialistic, dishonourable tyranny of the NWO.

    We should be aiming to create a world where there is a nationalist or National-Socialist - society in a country such as America, and where there is a Khilafah in the Muslim world, with these two societies co-operating together for their own mutual advantage. This would mean the end of the messianic dream of the cabal for a so-called Greater Israel.

    To quote Sheikh Usama bin Laden (hafidhahullah):

    "We tell the Americans as a people, and we tell the mothers of soldiers - and American mothers in general - if they value their lives and those of their children, find a nationalistic government that will look after their interests, and not the interests of the Jews." Usama bin Laden, taken from an interview bin Laden gave on May 28 1998 CE

    As Sheikh Usama bin Laden (hafidhahullah) has also stated, it is permissible for Muslims to join forces with, to fight the New World Order, those threatened by that New World Order, and the Sheikh gave this example: "the fighting, which is being waged and which will be waged in the days to come, is similar to the fighting of Muslims against the Byzantine [Empire] in the past. And our convergence of interests, now, is not detrimental. Then, the interests of the Muslims fighting against the Byzantine [Empire] converged with the interests of the Persians, and this was not detrimental to the companions of the Prophet."

    However we Muslims can only ally ourselves with those who have a good opinion of us, and of Islam:

    "If we truly love Allah, how can we love the enemies of Allah? How can we love people who deny the truth when it is presented before them, and who argue and dispute barrenly against it? How can we love and be deeply attached to a lifestyle that thrives on disobeying Allah? We should treat people based on their position towards Islam. The kuffar, including the Jews and Christians, can never become our intimate friends, confidantes or close allies. This does not mean we isolate ourselves from them and give up hope for them. What it means is that our relationship with them should be fair, kind and equitable, and not rude or arrogant, but we should always be thinking about how to bring them to Islam. If, however, they display open hostility to Islam,, then we should treat them as enemies. Those who seize our lands and oppress, torture and kill our Muslim brothers and sisters cannot be our friends." Sheikh Ahmad al-Ghumari

    Yet we Muslims have a duty to present Islam to them: they are free to accept, or decline. I have done this, and achieved Alhamdulillah some little success - making some people in such folkish groups, or who hold folkish beliefs, aware of the truth of Islam, its numinosity (one even converted to Islam, Alhamdulillah). To do this, and the other things necessary, I have sometimes had to use deception, for as the Hadith says:

    Narrated Ka'b ibn Malik: When the Prophet (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) intended to go on an expedition, he always pretended to be going somewhere else, and he would say: War is deception. (Abu Dawud, 14, 2629)

    We Muslims are indeed at war, and if I have sometimes to deceive the kuffar to achieve things for Islam, to aid my brothers and sisters, I will, provided I do nothing that is dishonourable, or which Islam forbids. Maybe I was - and am - wrong to do such things, as maybe sometime soon they may not be necessary, but all I can do is trust in Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and strive, InshaAllah, to do what is Islamic.




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    My general impression is that although the far right and militant Islam on occasion share rhetoric, what admiration does exist tends to move in one direction i.e., selected far right activists voice support for militant Islam while the latter rarely voices support for the former. Is this an accurate assessment?

    A: Fairly accurate, because what is there to admire in most of the so-called right-wing movement today? If it were composed of people who upheld honour, who understood their own ethics, their own Aryan way of life - for which see my The Complete Guide to the Aryan Way of Life which I wrote before my conversion to Islam - and who thus uphold in their public and private lives the principle of honour, loyalty and duty, then there might be something, other than a few individuals, to admire. I hoped my writings would change this state of affairs, which is one reason I have tried to make to bring these two ways of life together by supporting authentic Islam, by propagating genuine National-Socialism, and writing about Aryan ethics.




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    That said there seems to some issues that would obviously divide the two movements, specifically, immigration and religion. Both North America and Western Europe are experiencing substantial immigration from Muslim countries. Ultimately this could significantly alter both the racial/ethnic and religious textures of these geographic regions. Furthermore, some far right politicians, such as Jean Marie Le Pen, have made political capital by exploiting xenophobia of Muslim migrants. What are your thoughts on this development? Is Islam more a threat or potential ally?

    A: The people who make political capital out of such things and who thus strike an anti-Muslim pose - such as the BNP and Le Pen - are in my opinion acting contrary to honour and reason. They fail to understand their own Aryan values, as they fail to comprehend the true global situation, which is of an increasing world-tyranny, the New World Order. In addition, the nationalism they propagate is out-dated, anachronistic, and most damning of all, un-numinous.

    In respect of their folk, what is required is an Aryan way of life, a free Aryan homeland and thus the law of personal honour. This means a Destiny created by a numinous perspective. The ethics of such "nationalist" organizations are the ignoble, uncivilized, ethics of The State, just as there is nothing numinous in the policies and goals of such organizations: no rational, cosmic, perspective, no inspiring numinosity, just mundane, political, promises about some sort of " better materialistic life" and stories about so-called past national glories, which, more often than not, were just dishonourable imperialism for the sake of capitalism.

    Such political groups, and the people who lead them, are of the past, whereas Folk Culture and National-Socialism are or should be of their future: an expression of what is needed to create civilized, human, numinous societies where honour is the criteria for personal behaviour and social conduct.

    Seen in this way, Islam is their ally. They seek an Aryan homeland: this does not mean they need the old nation-States. They need to begin again, with a new way of life, a new society, an entirely new nation. In brief, they must be the founders of a new nation. Once this principle is accepted, the Movement will shed an enormous amount of excessive and unnecessary baggage. In respect of America, for instance, this would mean creating a homeland in one or more States, or even in a part of one State.



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    There have been a lot of Internet conspiracy rumors in the wake of 9/11? One in particular that has gained currency in far right circles is that the Israeli Mossad, and possibly the U.S. government, had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attack. Do you have any reason to impugn the official version of the events of 9/11? If so, would you please share your thoughts?


    A: I have considered such theories, and reviewed what evidence has been put forward to support them, such as the way the Twin Towers collapsed which may seem to some to indicate it was destroyed as a result of a covert operation by the CIA. This is an interesting theory, but my view is that the attacks were martyrdom operations by Muslims who wanted to show that America, for all its military and economic power, is not invincible. As Sheikh Usama bin Laden (hafidhahullah) said in a recent statement: "We stress the importance of martyrdom operations against the enemy - operations that have inflicted damage both on the United States and on Israel: damage that has been unprecedented in their history, all thanks to Almighty Allah."

    As for the US government having forewarning of the attacks and just letting it happen, they might do this as another Pearl Harbour, but it is more likely that they did not know since they have very little intelligence about The Base of Jihad operations, and certainly less then than the little they might have now.


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    As I’m sure you know, the war on terror—especially if it includes a war on Iraq—will amount to an enormous fiscal undertaking. Both federal and state governments are experiencing severe budget crises. Furthermore, substantial immigration continues into the West. Could you presage a scenario in which the U.S. government could be militarily winning the war overseas, yet lose control of its Mexican border and by doing so, descend into a spiral of fiscal bankruptcy and civil unrest?

    A: We can but hope! In truth, this is the real weakness of America, and one which I am sure Sheikh Usama bin Laden (hafidhahullah) knows, which is why he is using the tactics he is. America has been drawn into a global conflict, and to keep this going, for many years - as it must - will be an enormous drain on its resources. What is needed to tilt the balance toward bringing the NWO to its knees is for there to be increased social and political unrest in America. In this, The Movement must play a part.

    All modern Western societies are vulnerable, their infrastructure is fragile. The Movement should target this infrastructure, in an honourable way, which means avoiding civilian casualties in the covert, revolutionary, war which is necessary. The reality of the present is that National-Socialists seem to be doing very little in a practical sense to undermine and destroy the NWO, while Muslims are actively waging a war against it. If National-Socialists are committed, they should be inciting and inspiring revolution in their own lands, and doing practical things to undermine and destroy their ZOG.


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    How have the various segments of the far right responded to your conversion to Islam and your overtures to Muslim activists?


    A: Some have been critical; some have been skeptical, believing I did not convert at all. Some - obviously failing to understand honour and thus their own Aryan ethics - have condemned attempts to make alliances with Muslims.

    Some of the more prejudiced ones have even called me a "traitor" and "mad". Here is an answer:

    Abu Huraira narrated that the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alayhe wa sallam) said: "Islam began as something strange, and it will revert to its former position of being strange, so good tidings for the strangers." (Recorded by Muslim, Attirmidthi, Ibn Majah, and Ahmad)


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    Do you think Islam could be a viable guiding faith/religion for the West?

    A: Most certainly, InshaAllah. The Way of Life which is Al-Islam is certainly far, far superior to what exists in the West. Indeed, Islam is the one thing that can make the West into a civilized society - which can overcome the hubris, the arrogance, of the West, and its rampant, dishonourable, materialism.

    The West has lost the sense, the imminence, of the Divine and as result its governments, and a lot of its peoples, are arrogant. They have set themselves up to compete with God, with Allah. They have no real sense of honour anymore, no real manners or dignity. Islam provides honour and dignity and manners - Islam, correctly understood, is a guide to how we can be honourable and how we can create an honourable, rational, fair, society.

    To become honourable, the West needs examples: in the Prophet Muhammad (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) we have the perfect example of the honourable man - he was the archetypal human being, the archetypal honourable and chivalrous man: fair, courteous, just, trustworthy, brave, tolerant, honest, generous, modest and pious. Anyone who studies his life in a reasoned and fair way is impressed - and one of the things we Muslims could do InshaAllah to make significant converts in the modern West is to provide trustworthy and readable accounts, in English, of the life of the Prophet Muhammad, of his honourable Companions and of those honourable warriors - such as Ali Ibn Abu Talib and Salah al-Din - who fought for the cause of Islam.

    There is astounding ignorance of Islam in the West, and a immense amount of prejudice. I have found that Westerners are quite ignorant and astoundingly arrogant - for the majority of them blindly assume that the ways of the West, and they themselves, are somehow "superior", and that Islam is "backward" or "uncivilized" whereas the contrary is true.




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    You have written extensively on the spiritual aspects of National Socialism and heathenism. On the surface, it would seem difficult to reconcile these beliefs with Islam, in that the latter is monotheistic, non-racialist, and absolutist. Would you please expound on how you syncretize these seemingly disparate belief systems?

    A: There is some common ground, since both ways - when correctly understood - produce civilized, honourable individuals who use reason as a guide. The differences are, first, the perspective of Islam is the the next life, on Jannah, and there is therefore what I have called an acausal ethic, and, second, that the individual is understood in relation to such things as Taqwa, Imaan, for these define them. For Islam, the folk - and the diversity and difference of human culture - is basically irrelevant. For National-Socialism, this diversity and difference should be treasured, and developed, in an honourable, rational way.

    In addition, National-Socialism concentrates on the connection to the folk, and thus to Nature and the Cosmos, with Nature and the Cosmos being understood as living beings. That is, individuals are regarded as part of the folk, as Nature made manifest, and that our purpose is to aid Nature, and thus the Cosmos, through our folk: to evolve ourselves, our folk, our culture, and thus our human species. Hence, the perspective of National-Socialism - and the basis for its ethics - is a cosmic, and causal one, of individuals as a nexion, a connexion between our human past and our human future. National-Socialism believes we can and should evolve further: that this is our unique human Destiny, and that this evolution depends on us, on our reason, strength, and so on. In total contrast, the Muslim relies on Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and Allah alone.

    In National-Socialism (and Folk Culture, I should add) the individual is defined by honour, loyalty and duty, just as a National-Socialist society is.

    Islam is submission to the Will of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala, as revealed in the Quran and Sunnah, and a Muslim is a person who has given an oath of loyalty, bay'ah, to do what Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala has commanded - to obey Allah and the Muhammad (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam), the Prophet of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. Further, the Muslim uses - or should use - only the Quran and Sunnah as their guides, the basis of their judgment, about what is honourable and dishonourable - that is, they refer what is honourable to Allah and His Messenger. In National-Socialism, it is fair to say that it is individuals - or some leader - who decide what is honourable, and this is, to me, a great weakness, for I have come to understand that honour means we accept that there is a God - a Creator, an Eternal Being far more powerful than we mortals. There can be no real honour without this understanding of God, for it is this understanding of God which gives us the cosmic perspective we need to understand ourselves, as humans, and judge ourselves - with such an understanding and judgement being the beginning of morality. It is this understanding alone which prevents us from being insolent - from upsetting the natural balance by 'overstepping the mark'. Furthermore, this understanding of God which is the basis of honour is not a belief, a question of faith, but rather a reasoned apprehension - the result of rational observation and reasoned thought.

    One of the glories of Islam is that it expresses this reasoned apprehension of God - for Islam, God is not a question of faith, but the conclusion of us thinking about ourselves, our world, and the cosmos itself. Our very existence, our human nature, the complexity and beauty of life on Earth, the wonders of the cosmos are all Signs - all pointers to the conclusion that there is and must be a Supreme Being, one God and only one God, who is Infinite, Eternal and whom Muslims call Allah [literally, The One (and Only) God].

    As for myself, I am a Muslim, Alhamdulillah, and I shall remain a Muslim, InshaAllah.

    I spent many months, last year, living alone in a tent in the high hills of Cumbria thinking about Islam, National-Socialism, and Folk Culture, and I admit to having had doubts - again. But it was a return to the desert which, yet again, brought me back to the true simplicity of Islam: alone, fragile, in the vastness of the Western Desert, I let my heart and mind combine in a simple submission to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. Also, I admit to - yet again - being somewhat overwhelmed by the many Muslims I met on that journey: such simple piety, deriving from Dhikr; such manners; such honour. These truly were good people - made good by Islam.

    I do know that we are continually tried and tested, as Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    "He [Allah] created life and death that He might put you to the test and find out which of you acquitted himself best." 67: 1-2. (Interpretation of meaning.)

    "Every soul shall taste death. We shall try you in good and bad ordeals." 21:35 (Interpretation of meaning.)

    I also realize the truth of the Hadith:


    "There is no believing servant except that he has a sin which he commits from time to time, or a sin in which he persists in and does not abandon until he leaves this world. Indeed the Believer was created as one who is frequently tried and tested, who often repents (then) forgets. When he is admonished he accepts the admonition." Reported by at-Tabaraanee in al-Mu'jamul Kabeer (no. 11,810); hasan.




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    Several Bush administration spokespersons have repeatedly asserted that the attacks visited upon America on September 11, 2001, were because of the democratic values that the country espouses. Do you accept this analysis?


    A: No. The attacks were in response to American policy in the Middle East and elsewhere: a consequence of their support for the Zionist entity which has killed and tortured Muslims and which has stolen Muslim land; a consequence of their support for sanctions against Iraq which have resulted in the deaths of nearly one million children; a consequence of their arrogant, bullying, ways in Muslim land and their support of the ignoble, un-Islamic leaders of Muslim countries; a consequence of them defiling - in Muslim eyes - The Land of Two Holy Places. And so on.


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    In recent years the proliferation of the Internet and the World Wide Web has enabled people scattered all over the world to communicate with one another and share ideas. Do you see any evidence of a process of cross-fertilization at work whereby seemingly disparate dissidents are increasingly converging on a shared ideology with regard to such issues as globalization, NWO, American foreign policy, etc.?

    A: Not really; there is an exchange of information, and some collaboration, but I do not see a new ideology emerging, only refinements of existing ones, such as anti-capitalism, anti-globalization. Or rather, it might be more correct to write and say that there is no new way of life emerging as a result of this communication and collaboration.


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    From the perspective of the far right, an overt alliance with militant Islam would seem to entail many perils. My previous research suggests that the various far right movements are monitored very closely by the government (and non-governmental organizations in the U.S.). Thus tactically the far right would not appear to be in a good position to cooperate with militant Islam even if it had the desire to do so. Do you have any thoughts on this?

    A: The essence, insofar as effective folkish opposition to the NWO is concerned, is covert action by covert groups and lone-wolf individuals: aiding the destruction of the infrastructure, for instance.

    For Islam, the way is Jihad, until Islam is triumphant, as Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    "Fight against those who do not believe in Allah, or in The Last Day, and who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, as well as those among the people of the book who do not acknowledge the Deen of Truth, and fight them until they pay the Jizya with willing submission." [ 9:29 interpretation of Meaning]




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    Do you have any thoughts on the impending war against Iraq?


    A: Yes. America is acting like an arrogant, ignoble bully. It will not be a war: it will be a big, powerful bully picking on someone much smaller. A one-sided conflict, rather like that between the American-equipped Zionist army and the activists of Hamas: helicopter gunships and tanks against rifles; rockets and missiles against stones. It makes me angry to watch the television pictures of American and British troops swaggering around, showing off their hardware while experts talk about powerful American weaponry: it so dishonourable; so against the ethos of the true warrior. There will be no honour in such a conflict, at least not on the part of American and allied troops. You want true warriors in the modern world? Muslims defending Jenin. Mujahideen defending Tora Bora.

    America is acting in the interests of the Zionist entity.

    It is not a war for oil, and neither is the war in Afghanistan about oil. It is war to tame Islam; to extend the dictat of the NWO to Muslim lands. A war to ensure that Muslim countries do not develope weapons which can challenge the Zionist entity. In addition it is war to ensure that the NWO can control and stifle the growth of holocaust revisionism in Muslim lands, for the truth has begun to be freely told in such lands, and were the myth of the holocaust to be destroyed, the NWO, with its Western ZOG's, would crumble from within. Some such Muslim lands have become - and others have the potential to become - sanctuaries of reason and truth in a world of politically-correct Zionist social engineering, places of exile for those who have fallen foul of the tyrannical laws of the NWO. The NWO wants to be able to get at anyone, anywhere, and put them on trial according to the ignoble, tyrannical, laws of the NWO.

    In brief, it is part of the plan to extend the dictat of the NWO to the whole world.

    The next target will be places like Iran and possibly Syria.



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    Inasmuch as the Koran teaches that Allah sent prophets to all of the major civilizations, it is conceivable that the far right could reconcile some of its beliefs with Islam. For example, some Muslim scholars have attempted to show that Socrates, Lao-Tzu, Hammurabi, and Zoroaster were prophets of Allah, and thus acceptable to Islam. In this tradition, it might not be too much of a stretch to include Odin, Thorburn, and other members of the Norse pantheon into the framework of Islam. Do you think that a synthesis is possible between Islam and the various religions popular with the far right, such as Odinism?

    A: This is a very interesting question.

    According to Islam, Muhammad (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was the last Prophet of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala, but before him Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala sent a Prophet to every people, every culture, to warn them, to guide them. What these Prophets taught would have been the message of Islam - that is, submission to the one and only God, the belief that we were created by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala , and the belief that we can enter Paradise if we live in the right way. In addition, there is the concept of sin: the belief that God has determined what is right and wrong, and that those committing "sins" will be punished, and go to some horrid place after they die.

    These Prophets would have been historical people, that is, real individuals. Some of their reported or assumed sayings, or teachings, may have survived by various means, but - for Muslims - only the Quran is infallible, the literal Word of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. Thus, if any known historical figure who may have been one of the Prophets is associated with any sayings or teachings, these sayings and teachings may well be corrupted in some way, or otherwise be unreliable in determining what they really said or taught.

    The only way Muslims can know the identity of such Prophets for certain is by referring to the Quran and Sunnah, and these sources are silent in respect of the people, and figures, you mentioned.

    In respect of Odin, Thorburn and others like them, we need to ask several questions. First, were these real people, whose lives became legend, then myth? [The same applies to other "gods", such as the Homeric ones - was Zeus a powerful chieftain long before the time of people such as Agamemnon?] Second, what did these figures believe, or teach - or, what do the legends, the stories, the myths, about them, tell us? Third, is what we know about them consistent with Islam?

    The Norse figures may well have been real people: we simply do not know. What do Norse myths and legends tell us? What is the ethos, the Way of life, of the people who followed and believed in these? It is my understanding that they reveal a basically pagan and warrior ethos, quite similar to that of Ancient Greece. A pagan is an individual who believes or feels that there is a creative force in the natural world (in Nature) which produces, is responsible for, and which changes, all living beings, which includes ourselves. That is, that Nature is manifest, embodied, presenced, or incarnated, in living things.

    Furthermore, and of especial importance, the Norse pagan culture - like the Ancient Greek one - was a warrior one. This means that the standards of judgment, what determined whether a deed was good or bad, whether a person was good or bad, were warrior ones, created by strong warriors. It also means that what inspired people to do what they did were these standards. What were these warrior standards? Valour; excellence (arête, in Greek); honour; triumphing over adversity; and a belief that there were limits - that to overstep these limits (to commit hubris) was to invite disaster, a retribution by the gods. As Sophocles wrote well over a two thousand years ago (my translation):

    There exists much that is strange, yet nothing
    Is more strange than mankind:
    For this being crosses the gray sea of Winter
    Against the wind, through the howling sea swell,
    And the oldest of gods, ageless Earth -
    She the inexhaustible -
    He wearies, turning the soil year after year
    By the plough using the offspring of horses.

    He snares and captures the careless race of birds,
    The tribes of wild beasts, the natives of the sea,
    In the woven coils of his nets -
    This thinking warrior: he who by his skill rules over
    The wild beasts of the open land and the hills,
    And who places a yoke around the hairy neck
    Of the horse, taming it - and the vigorous mountain bull.

    His voice, his swift thought,
    The raising and ordering of towns:
    How to build against the ill-winds of the open air
    And escape the arrows of storm-rain -
    All these things he taught himself,
    He the all-resourceful
    From whom there is nothing he does not meet
    Without resources - except Hades
    From which even he cannot contrive an escape
    Although from unconquered disease
    He plans his refuge.

    Beyond his own hopes, his cunning
    In inventive arts - he who arrives
    Now with dishonour, then with chivalry:
    Yet, by fulfilling his duties to the soil,
    His oaths to the customs given by the gods,
    Noble is his clan although clan-less is he who dares
    To dwell where and with whom he please -
    Never shall any who do this
    Come to my hearth or I share their judgement.....


    Judgement is the greater part of good fortune
    Just as it is necessary not to be disrespectful to the gods -
    For the great words of the excessive boaster
    Are repayed by great blows
    And this, as one grows old, teaches judgement.



    Does all this seem compatible with Islam - with the belief in one God, who is separate from their creation (us, and the world, and Nature), with the very concept of sin? Does this seem compatible with the idea of one supreme God teaching us, guiding us, through revelation, through Prophets?


    My view is that it is not compatible at all. It is a very different ethos; and the Way of Life which results from upholding or following this pagan, warrior, ethos is very different from that of Islam. This does not mean that two cannot co-operate for their mutual advantage. There are some similarities, as I have mentioned elsewhere, particularly in respect of using reason, being fair, upholding honour, but the conclusion can really only be that the two belong to different worlds: their respective perspectives are totally different.


    It is also my view, as I said, that Islam is the superior Way, as it is my hope that, InshaAllah, the West - the Zionist-Crusader alliance - will be defeated, and its peoples turn toward Islam. Then we will have a truly civilized, noble, way of life - the re-emergence of the Khilafah. As for myself, I shall continue to strive, InshaAllah, to fight for Islam, against the ways of the kuffar.



    Abdul-Aziz ibn Myatt
    1424

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    Post Re: Islam?s Nazi Connections

    There is a book worth reading on the subject, because it is no scholar crap, and it's called 'L'Islam devant le national-socialisme', written in 1942 by Saida Savitri (no connection with Savitri Devi).

    A Muslim woman of Indian descent and French education, Saida Savitri wrote her book in French in occupied France during the war. In her book, she advocates German-Muslim relationships, quoting both the Qoran and Hitler to show the similarities between the two.

    Part of her argument is indeed based on anti-colonial resentment. Muslim societies have always had an utter contempt for Jews. But colonial powers upsetted the traditional structures to that respect and gave a prominent role to Jews in Muslim societies, like the role Jews have in Western societies. Just to give an idea of their craziness : in Algeria, the French granted citizenship to Jews... excluding the Arabs. The masters thus became slaves in their own countries, not as slaves of the Whites than slaves of the Jews. The Law bears the name of a French Jewish politician.

    Saida Savitri considers that Nazism is the attempt made by Germans to be themselves, and in that effort they must be followed by alienated Muslim countries, which also must become themselves again.

    It is true that many Nazis found refuge in Muslim countries after the war. Still, they entered the service of regimes that wanted to get rid of Muslim traditions, like Nasser's kind of national-socialist regime in Egypt : Otto Skorzeny, as the article reports, but also former Hitler's bodyguard (can't remember his name just now), who became a security adviser, and Johannes von Leers, former Goebbels' chief of staff for antisemitic propaganda, who become chief of staff for Nasser's propaganda.

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    Post Re: Islam?s Nazi Connections

    interview with Claudio Mutti in German on "Junge Forum"



    mit Prof. Claudio Mutti, “Junges Forum” n. 3

    In Italien wie auch in anderen europäischen Ländern entwickelt sich eine Zusammenarbeit von Vertretern der rechten Szene mit islamischen Kräften. In Deutschland steht ein großer Teil der Rechten dem Islam eher kritisch bis ablehnend gegenüber. Welche Gründe sind hierfür maßgeblich?

    Mutti:
    In Italien nennen wir jenen Flügel der kollaborationistischen politischen Klasse "rechts" (destra), der in US-Präsident Bush seinen gegenwärtigen Führer sieht, während der "linke" derselben politischen Klasse (die gestern noch in Clintons Diensten stand) darauf wartet, daß Kerry ihr künftiger Führer wird.
    Bei den extremen Rechten (das sind die Neofaschisten und die sogenannten Rechtsradikalen) ist der Fall anders gelagert und ebenso wirr wie widersprüchlich. In einem gewissen Bereich dieses formlosen Nebels hat immer eine explizit proislamische Einstellung vorgeherrscht, deren Wurzeln in diesen Faktoren gesucht werden muß: 1.) in der historischen Solidarität von Faschismus sowie Nationalsozialismus mit muslimischen Völkern, 2.) in der Darstellung des Islam, wie sie von traditionalen Denkern, in erster Linie von Julius Evola, vorgegeben wurde, 3.) in dem Auftauchen des Islam in den späten 1970er Jahren als eine spirituelle und politische Kraft im Kampf "gegen unsere eigenen Feinde".
    Wir bemerken jedoch innerhalb dieses Nebels eine charakteristische Schizophrenie, die darin besteht, daß eine proislamische (oder proarabische) Haltung in bezug auf Palästina und den Irak eingenommen wird und eine antiislamische (oder antiarabische) Haltung in bezug auf Italien, wo der Immigrantenzustrom als "islamische Invasion" betrachtet wird, und zwar aufgrund einer Wahrnehmung, die eher eine irrationale und emotionale als eine objektive und realistische ist.
    Diese Schizophrenie setzt die extreme Rechte und die radikale Rechte natürlich der Gefahr aus, ein objektiver Verbündeter der etablierten Rechten zu werden, die antieuropäisch, proamerikanisch und prozionistisch ist.
    ?
    Die sogenannte multikulturelle Gesellschaft stellt ohne Zweifel eine Gefahr für Europa dar. Welche Rolle könnte oder sollte Ihrer Meinung nach der Islam in Europa spielen, und wie läßt sich hierbei die Gefahr eines "Schmelztiegels" à la USA verhindern?

    Mutti:
    Die Sozialstruktur, die gemeinhin "multikulturell" genannt wird, ist in Wahrheit eine monokulturelle, da sie der Hegemonie oder eher noch der Exklusivexistenz nur einer einzigen Kultur bedarf: der westlichen Kultur, die in Gestalt der USA triumphiert. Die westliche Struktur, die einem Teil Europas 1945 einem anderen 1989 aufgepfropft wurde, betrachtet den Islam als seinen Erzfeind: "Für den Westen", schreibt Samuel P. Huntington, "ist das wahre Problem nicht der islamische Fundamentalismus, sondern der Islam selbst."

    Es heißt, der Islam sei eine Religion, die rassische Unterschiede nicht anerkenne. Würde ein islamischer Einfluß in Europa die Rassenmischung vorantreiben?

    Mutti:
    Der Islam bejaht ausdrücklich die Vorherrschaft des spirituellen Faktors über den biologischen. Aber aus dieser Tatsache folgt keineswegs, daß der Islam rassische Unterschiede nicht anerkennt oder sich nicht zunutze macht. Die islamische Lehre in bezug diese Diskussion ist kunstvoll in dem folgenden Koranwort ausgedrückt: "Eines Seiner [= Gottes] Wunderzeichen ist die Schöpfung der Himmel und der Erde und die Verschiedenheit euerer Sprachen und Farben" (XXX, 23, übersetzt von Ludwig Ullmann). Deshalb betrachtet der Islam "Sprachen und Farben", das heißt kulturelle und rassische Identitäten, als göttliche "Wunderzeichen".Der Fall wäre nicht so einfach gelagert, wenn der Islam nicht von Ludwig Ferdinand Clauß, der seine rassenseelische Sicht in Rasse und Charakter (1936) dargelegt hat, und von anderen Theoretikern der Rassefrage, wie Johannes von Lehrs, hochgelobt worden wäre.

    Man sagt, der Islam sei eine sehr aggressive Religion, die andere Religionen nicht neben sich duldet. Julius Evola schwebte ein übernationales, überkonfessionelles Reich vor. Toleriert der Islam andere Religionen an seiner Seite?

    Mutti:
    Als der Islam in der Geschichte die Regierungsverantwortung auf sich nahm, hat er andere Religionen angerkannt und ihren Anhängern Schutz und Autonomie gewährt. Im Omayyad-Reich [vielleicht schreibt man Omayyad im Deutschen anders???] wurden die Christen soweit respektiert, daß einer ihrer berühmten Heiligen, Johannes von Damaskus, unter dem Kalifen Finanzminister wurde; im muslimischen Spanien gedieh die Kultur der mozarabischen Christen; im Osmanischen Reich hatte der orthodoxe Patriarch stets den Rang eines Ministers des Sultans, und die christlichen Gemeinden erfreuten sich vollständiger Autonomie; im indischen Teil des Mogulreiches waren Hindus und Buddhisten dem "Volk des Buches" rechtlich gleichgestellt und genossen die hiermit verbundenen Privilegien; in der heutigen Islamischen Republik Iran haben die Christen und die Parsen ihre Abgeordneten im Parlament in Teheran.
    Was Julius Evola angeht, so war seine Meinung über den Islam eine ausgesprochen positive. In Erhebung wider die moderne Welt ((dt. 1935); 2., überarb. Aufl.: Revolte gegen die moderne Welt (dt. 1982)) können wir nachlesen, daß der Islam eine "Tradition einer höheren Ebene [ist] als jene Glaubensbekenntnisse, die Europa erobert haben". [xxx Zitat prüfen!]

    Die Idee "Eurasien als Bollwerk gegen Amerikanismus, Liberalismus und Materialismus" steht in Italien und anderen europäischen Ländern, soweit wir dies überblicken können, auf der Tagesordnung rechter Denkzirkel. In Deutschland ist die eurasische Idee noch weitgehend unbekannt. Wir haben in der ersten Ausgabe des neuen JUNGEN FORUMS versucht, einen Überblick über die Ideen Alexander Dugins zu geben. Halten Sie das Projekt Eurasien für realisierbar?

    Mutti:
    Bis zum Zweiten Weltkrieg hatten Nationalstaaten wie Deutschland oder Italien oder Frankreich territoriale, demographische, ökonomische Dimensionen, die ausreichten, einen unabhängigen Staat zu bilden; heute jedoch gehört Unabhängigkeit ausschließlich jenen politischen Gebilden, die kontinentale Dimensionen haben. In der ersten Hälfte des 20. Jahrhunderts wurde dies von Karl Haushofer erkannt, der das geopolitische Konzept eines eurasischen Kontinentalblocks von Dublin bis Wladiwostok vorstellte.
    Es ist offensichtlich, daß der eurasische Kontinentalblock aus geopolitischer Notwendigkeit heraus geboren werden wird, doch sein tiefstes Fundament ist die spirituelle Einheit Eurasiens, eine Einheit, die die Vielzahl kultuereller Ausprägungen transzendiert.

    Ist das nicht ein Konzept das nur von den Regierungen verwirklicht werden kann? Was können wir, die wir keine Entscheidungskompetenz auf Regierungsebene haben, dafür tun?

    Mutti:
    Das pars destruens unseres Handelns besteht darin, dem antieuropäischen Wesen des Begriffes "Westen" die Maske vom Gesicht zu reißen. Dieser "Westen" hat es sich zum Ziel gesetzt, die Unterordnung Europas unter die Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika aufrechtzuerhalten und einen tiefen Graben zwischen Europa und dem Rest des eurasischen Kontinents zu schaffen. Die These vom "Kampf der Kulturen" müssen wir als ein ideologisches Instrument des US-Imperialismus verurteilen, das den Zweck hat, eine Reihe von Bürgerkriegen in Eurasien hervorzurufen, von denen die Vereinigten Staaten profitieren würden. Wenn ein "Kampf der Kulturen" wirklich existiert, dann treten in ihm nicht Islam und Christentum gegeneinander an, sondern die eurasische Kultur und die amerikanische Barbarei.
    Als pars construens müssen wir ein eurasisches Bewußtsein schaffen und die Hinweise weiterentwickeln, die in den Schriften jener großen Vordenker enthalten sind, die die spirituelle Einheit Eurasiens aufgezeigt haben. Ich meine nicht nur die traditionalen Autoren wie René Guénon und Julius Evola, sondern auch Gelehrte der Religionsgeschichte wie Mircea Eliade und Giuseppe Tucci, Geschichtswissenschaftler wie Franz Altheim und Lew Gumilew, "klassische" Theoretiker des Eurasismus wie Nikolai Trubetzkoi und Pjotr Sawitzki.

    Könnte man beim Projekt Eurasien von der Wiederbelebung des mittelalterlichen Heiligen Römischen Reiches Deutscher Nation sprechen?

    Mutti:
    Unter Karl dem Großen vereinte das Heilige Römische Reich den Raum zwischen Nordsee und Mittelmeer, dem Ebro und dem Adriatischen Meer. Unter Friedrich II. - dem "Genie unter den deutschen Kaisern" (Friedrich Nietzsche), dem Kaiser, der Latein und Deutsch, Griechisch und Arabisch sprach und seine Gedichte auf Italienisch schrieb - machte das Reich seinen ersten Schritt in Richtung auf eine eurasische Synthese: Nachdem er dank eines Programms "Friede, Freundschaft mit dem Islam" (Nietzsche) die Herrschaft über Jerusalem erlangt hatte, vereinte der große Staufer in sich die Charaktere eines römischen Imperators und eines deutschen Königs, eines byzantinischen Basileus' und eines muslimischen Sultans. Es ist keine einfache Angelegenheit, wenn Muslime ihn mit Alexander dem Großen vergleichen, der der erste gewesen war, der Europa und Asien zu einen versucht hatte. Heute, in der Morgendämmerung des dritten Jahrtausends, füllt mit der eurasischen Idee dergleiche Reichsgeist den weiten Raum zwischen Atlantik und Pazifik.
    http://www.comune.taranto.it/video/i...cheologico.gif


    Article Eight of the Italian Labour Charter of 1926 states, "The corporate State considers that private enterprise in the sphere of production is the most effective and useful instrument in the interest of the nation." The employer and the employee must be made to work harmoniously in the interest of the nation.

    http://www.comune.taranto.it/citta/t.../foto/ori1.jpg

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    Post Re: Islam?s Nazi Connections

    during 1942 Himmler created a islamic-ss division formed by soldiers from muslim bosnia.

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    Post Re: Islam?s Nazi Connections

    This "Islam-Nazi Connections" is a little flawed and near-sighted. The people of the Near East have always had a special connection with Germany. This is because Germany was seen as a counter-balance to Great Britain and, more recently, because German technical assistance did not come with strings as did the British, Ameircan, or Soviets. So, whenever possible, the people of that region and their leaders have turned to the Germans for help. This idea pre-dates World War Two.

    But, more recently, it has surfaced again in the East-West Cold War struggle, especially at first. Then, the leaders of that region could get aid from Germany without spys. This was especially true if they called upon one of the former SS self-help groups to act as a consultant to get technical assistance. Finally, both the Americans and the Soviets, when cornered and unable to assist themselves for a variety of purely political reasons, would recommend these former SS organizations, most frequently run out of an engineering firm in Madrid, rather than the opposing East or West Power. This region is not the only one indebted to the Germans, Mexicans would still be living in pueblos, without electricity or running water if German technicians had not come to Mexico after the turn of the 20th Century to show them how to do things.

    Today, this is kind of a cultural predjudice on all sides. The Iraqis, for instance, relied heavily on the German engineers to build bunkers for Saddam before the Gulf War. Before the most recent war in Iraq, as the guys in the German language section can verify, reminants of Nazi Germany were said to have bases in Iraq and even to have stationed two very exotic flying machines (Haunebu) somewhere in Iraq.

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    Post Re: AW: Re: Islam’s Nazi Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by SS-E-IV
    Great pics!

    A Waffen-SS Division? Which?
    The picture of the man reading the book "Islam und Judentum" is a member of the all Islamic SS Division. Im thinking it was the 13th divison.

    There was a post in the Stormfront.org picture thread that had the pic (hanjar-book.jpg) and a more detailed description of the Division.

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    Post Re: Islam’s Nazi Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by ogenoct
    True dat!

    Constantin
    Wow your words really bring out who you are

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