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Thread: Our Ancestors the Steppe Aryans

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    Post Our Ancestors the Steppe Aryans

    Anthropological data of ancient Aryans and Slavs are amazingly similar. Just look at the attachment..

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    Quote Originally Posted by norda
    Anthropological data of ancient Aryans and Slavs are amazingly similar. Just look at the attachment..
    Fantastic amount of information on that spreadsheet, norda!

    Just one suggestion: It would be helpful to know which of those are historical (e.g. Scythians), and from which period those skull measurements date, and which ones are current.

    Regards,

    - Loki

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    Quote Originally Posted by norda
    Anthropological data of ancient Aryans and Slavs are amazingly similar. Just look at the attachment..
    The Aryans (i.e. original Indo-European speakers) belonged to the Northern Pontic race which still survives in relative purity in Southeast Russia and areas of Poland. The evidence for this assertion is overhwelming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Fantastic amount of information on that spreadsheet, norda!

    Just one suggestion: It would be helpful to know which of those are historical (e.g. Scythians), and from which period those skull measurements date, and which ones are current.

    Regards,

    - Loki
    Well.. There are systematized and grouped from the top- from Neolithic Aryans 5000-3000 bc to Early Medieval Slavs (ca 1000 ad)

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    [There is] is mesocephalic type, with a cephalic index of 79-80, inhabiting 16 regions within the area of the former Ryazan, Tambov and Penza departments [i.e. the "Eastern Great Russian type"]. This zone is located between tributaries of the Oka river, tributaries of the Tsna and Moksha rivers, as well as the upper tributaries of the Don. Nowhere else in the area inhabited by ethnic Russians is such a high concentration of mesocephalic indices found. This type is also found among Erzya Mordvins
    ... The Tambov-Penza type is more ancient [than the Valdaic type] and has to a great measure preserved the specialties of the ancient Kurgan [i.e. Aryan] population. ...


    Source: Origins and Ethnic History of the Russian People According to Anthropological Data p. 9, par. 4 - p. 10, par. 2. Published by the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, senior editor V.V. Bunak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigal Son
    The Aryans (i.e. original Indo-European speakers) belonged to the Northern Pontic race which still survives in relative purity in Southeast Russia and areas of Poland. The evidence for this assertion is overhwelming.
    Please list the "overwhelming" evidence that the most ancient Indo-European speakers belonged to the "Northern Pontic race". I have never seen any reputable study claiming this, but maybe I missed a few important ones...

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    Quote Originally Posted by norda
    Well.. There are systematized and grouped from the top- from Neolithic Aryans 5000-3000 bc to Early Medieval Slavs (ca 1000 ad)
    I see, so none of them are current living Slavs? Would be interesting to compare current data, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Please list the "overwhelming" evidence that the most ancient Indo-European speakers belonged to the "Northern Pontic race".
    See the above. I didn't say 'most ancient Indo-European speakers', I said 'the original Indo-European speakers'. The Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans, etc.. also belonged to the Northern Pontic race, and passed its character on to their Southern Russian descendants. Furthermore, Indo-European autosomal DNA is concentrated precisely in the area where the Northern Pontic race predominates.

    I have never seen any reputable study claiming this, but maybe I missed a few important ones...
    I don't feel like translating dozens of pages from Bunak right now. Perhaps a little later. Furthermore, I don't see the point. You accuse the entire Soviet anthropological etablishment of massive politically motivated fraud, and you'll automatically dismiss anything I post as 'biased'. Hate to throw a cliche at you, but trying to prove to you that Russians aren't Mongoloid hybrids is like trying to teach a pig to dance; it wastes my time and irritates the pig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigal Son
    See the above.
    The above is not "overwhelming evidence" that the ancient Indo-Euro speakers belonged to the "Northern Pontid type".

    I didn't say 'most ancient Indo-European speakers', I said t'the original Indo-European speakers'.
    What's the big difference?

    I don't feel like translating dozens of pages from Bunak right now. Perhaps a little later. Furthermore, I don't see the point. You accuse the entire Soviet anthropological etablishment of massive politically motivated fraud, and you'll automatically dismiss anything I post as 'biased'. Hate to throw a cliche at you, but trying to prove to you that Russians aren't Mongoloid hybrids is like trying to trying to teach a pig to dance; it wastes my time and irritates the pig.
    Well, either you present me with your "overwhelming evidence" that they were "Northern Pontid" type, or I will discard that as thumb-sucked exaggeration. And please, "overwhelming evidence", would include more than one author.

    Btw: I said nothing about Mongoloidism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    The above is not "overwhelming evidence" that the ancient Indo-Euro speakers belonged to the "Northern Pontid type".

    What's the big difference?
    The big difference is that many ancient Indo-European speakers had Indo-European languages imposed on them. I am talking about the original Indo-Europeans only.

    Well, either you present me with your "overwhelming evidence" that they were "Northern Pontid" type, or I will discard that as thumb-sucked exaggeration.
    Sure, but be patient.

    And please, "overwhelming evidence", would include more than one author.
    Oh, I've got tons of authors, don't you worry :). V. V. Bunak, V.P. Alekseev, Raisa Denisova, Tatiana Alekseeva, etc..., etc... It takes some time to translate text and transcibe anthropological tables though, so don't hold your breath. On second thought, do :).

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