View Poll Results: Don´t speak ill of the Dead?

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Thread: "Don't Speak Ill of the Dead"

  1. #1
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    Question "Don't Speak Ill of the Dead"

    Do you think it is generally inappropriate saying bad things about someone who has passed away?

    Please vote and explain your choice.
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Senior Member nätdeutsch's Avatar
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    Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    especially if you are a high powe figure who made decisions that many disagreed with, you cant have it both ways, make bad decisions and expect people to speak well of you when you die.


    i wasnt criticizing steve Irwin, btw. i was one of the first to defend him, and i will miss him.

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    Senior Member Sciz's Avatar
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    Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    especially if you are a high powe figure who made decisions that many disagreed with, you cant have it both ways, make bad decisions and expect people to speak well of you when you die.
    Agreed. I don't see any reason why my thoughts or speech about a person should change just because they're now dead. If you live an honorable life, then people will speak well of you when you're gone. If you live a degenerate life, then you get what you deserve if they speak ill of you when you die.
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
    H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop View Post
    Do you think it is generally inappropriate saying bad things about someone who has passed away?

    Unless you have good things to say, it is better to say nothing.

    What could be more cowardly than to bad-mouth a recently sword-dead or straw-dead man?

    Especially if you didn't know the deceased.

    By your silence, the noble will understand why you are holding your tongue and they will guess that you did not admire the recently deceased, but did exercise great self-restraint.

    This is a general rule of nobility - better to say the good, as the bad can stand unsaid as it is usually obvious to those who know [and who cares about those who don't?]

    Who would want to emulate the flyting of Loki, spitting out mean invective?

    But then Loki was Giant-kin.

    I have heard some people take joy in slagging off Steve Irwin on hearing of his sword-death - they will get their Karma.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    AW: Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    Unless you have good things to say, it is better to say nothing.
    Sounds like hypocrisy to me.

    What could be more cowardly than to bad-mouth a recently sword-dead or straw-dead man?
    Openly stating one´s opinion never can be cowardly. It surely isn´t if one risks getting in trouble with the deceased´s kin (Vendetta etc.). If one speaks out about someone only after he is dead this might be true, though.
    I have heard some people take joy in slagging off Steve Irwin on hearing of his sword-death - they will get their Karma.
    Hm, is a car accident, for example, also a "sword death"?
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Re: AW: Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    Do not speak ill of the dead.
    [The Seven Sages (Bias, Chilon, Cleobulus, Periander, Pittacus, Solon, Thales) c. 650 - 550 BC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop View Post
    Sounds like hypocrisy to me.
    No, hypocrisy is doing one thing and saying the opposite.
    To be hypocritical in this instance would be to say what a "wonderful person" the deceased was, while really hating him.

    I am advocating saying nothing either way.

    That is not hypocrisy, it is decency.

    Openly stating one´s opinion never can be cowardly. It surely isn´t if one risks getting in trouble with the deceased´s kin (Vendetta etc.). If one speaks out about someone only after he is dead this might be true, though.
    Most people don't deserve their opinions.

    The world would be a better place if many kept their opinions to themselves.

    However, in the case we are discussing, anyone who speaks ill of a man who has just died always looks utterly wretched and mean-spirited to the rest of us who still live.

    Indeed, such scoffers take on the mantle of death themselves.

    To pretend this is brave because you are thereby daring the wrath of the dead's kin is somewaht misguided.
    The deceased's kin have more important things to worry about than the bitter words of the living.

    It is about learning to put yourself in others' shoes; it is about learning when it is better not to speak.

    Just because you have some words on your lips does not mean they are worth saying.

    Hm, is a car accident, for example, also a "sword death"?
    If you are courting danger, or are a 'warrior', yes.

    Example - Ian Stuart Donaldson died in a car-crash, which was a sword death.

    Those who gloated over his death merely diminshed themselves in the eyes of the gods and surely poisoned their own wyrd.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  7. #7
    Senior Member nätdeutsch's Avatar
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    Re: AW: Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    I am advocating saying nothing either way.

    no you arent, you clearly stated
    Unless you have good things to say, it is better to say nothing.

    which assumes that saying good things is allowed, bad things arent.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Sciz's Avatar
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    Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    What could be more cowardly than to bad-mouth a recently sword-dead or straw-dead man?
    Perhaps that an individual is so dispicable that they threw away their good name in persuit of other things. An honorable person stays by their convictions and does what is respectable and therefore has no need to fear of losing their respectability or good name. The only person who is a coward for speaking out is the person who held his tongue when the dead man was alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Especially if you didn't know the deceased.

    By your silence, the noble will understand why you are holding your tongue and they will guess that you did not admire the recently deceased, but did exercise great self-restraint.
    I don't personally know any heroin junkies. Should I keep quiet about how they destroy their bodies just because I don't know them?

    I suppose silence is called for if one just "did not admire the recently deceased." However, I don't think most would speak ill of a dead person unless the sentiment were stronger than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    This is a general rule of nobility - better to say the good, as the bad can stand unsaid as it is usually obvious to those who know [and who cares about those who don't?]
    Doesn't this impart more nobility to the dead than they deserve? Everyone writes their own epitaph and, as such, is in control of what others will say about them when they're gone. Respect and honor are earned, not granted. I don't see any reason this should change when the person dies.
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
    H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Re: AW: Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    I am advocating saying nothing either way.
    no you arent, you clearly stated
    Unless you have good things to say, it is better to say nothing.
    which assumes that saying good things is allowed, bad things arent.
    By "either way", I mean do not say either good things that are insincere [i.e., hypocritical] or bad things sincere or insincere [i.e., indecent].

    That is not hypocrisy, as the meaning is clear; if you liked the dead man and only have good things to say about him, then say them.
    The gods will favour you for your golden words if they are sincere.

    However, if you only had bad words in your heart for the dead man then it is better to say nothing for the ethical reasons I have given.

    Or would you rather take the attitude of those who say;

    "Why should'nt we speak ill of the dead? They are the only people who can't sue us"

    Compare that shyster philosophy with the following;

    "Of the dead say nothing"

    The latter is noble, the former is ignoble.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Re: AW: Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    The gods will favour you for your golden words if they are sincere.
    If the gods value sincerity, wouldn't they also favour one for speaking ill words out of sincerity?

    What of the man who lives an ignoble life then dies, if none have stood against him? What is the concrete value of honor in this world if there are no visible consequences of losing it? If the gods also believe in the value of dignity and nobility, haven't they fallen short in their support of it if their followers value it so little as to leave the issue unspoken?
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
    H.P. Lovecraft

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