View Poll Results: Don´t speak ill of the Dead?

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Thread: "Don't Speak Ill of the Dead"

  1. #31
    Senior Member nätdeutsch's Avatar
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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    i say if you cant speak ill, you shouldent be able to speak well.

    if you speak well, those who may have reason to speak ill will not be heard, by the "dont speak ill of the dead" rule

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    Re: "Don't speak ill of the Dead"

    If someone is dead, and I didn't like him, his achievements or deeds, I'll give him his peace. He's dead and I don't care any more about him. If I can't say anything good, I don't say anything at all!

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    Senior Member Esther_Helena's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post

    I find spitting to be a filthy habit and never justifiable [I am not referring to yourself, but only to the practice of 'spitting' itself, which immigrants in Britain do quite a lot] - unless one is expelling something unpleasant from one's mouth and has no alternative.
    Even then, I believe that a handkerchief should be used to cover the mouth and to envelope the unwanted spittle. The 'kerchief should then be disposed of and not used again if possible.

    I believe that unnecessary and arrogant spitting should be a punishable offence.

    I think it bad form to spit on anyone's grave no matter who he be.

    Indeed, I would punish anyone for doing that, even if the grave be of a monster. Perhaps in such circumstances the punishment would be slightly mitigated and carry only the price of a few lashes [whereas it normally would also carry a fine].

    Anyway, I notice that low types are fond of spitting, so I do not think that it carries the kind of force of contempt that you imagine [the degenerates known as 'footballers' spit all the time, Odin knows why].

    At bottom, I believe that spitting makes the spitter contemptible to others.

    As I have said before, silence is the most powerful rebuke of all.

    Offer the grave silence - and then some.

    I agree with your other points though, and can see that you are a woman of good breeding.
    I find the type of people Bridie mentioned to be unworthy of my spit.

  4. #34
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    Re: "Don't speak ill of the Dead"

    I find spitting to be a filthy habit and never justifiable [I am not referring to yourself, but only to the practice of 'spitting' itself, which immigrants in Britain do quite a lot] - unless one is expelling something unpleasant from one's mouth and has no alternative.
    Even then, I believe that a handkerchief should be used to cover the mouth and to envelope the unwanted spittle. The 'kerchief should then be disposed of and not used again if possible.

    I believe that unnecessary and arrogant spitting should be a punishable offence.

    I think it bad form to spit on anyone's grave no matter who he be.

    Indeed, I would punish anyone for doing that, even if the grave be of a monster. Perhaps in such circumstances the punishment would be slightly mitigated and carry only the price of a few lashes [whereas it normally would also carry a fine].

    Anyway, I notice that low types are fond of spitting, so I do not think that it carries the kind of force of contempt that you imagine [the degenerates known as 'footballers' spit all the time, Odin knows why].

    At bottom, I believe that spitting makes the spitter contemptible to others.
    Moody, you can't be serious! Spitting itself, (unless its to, as you said, expell something quickly from the mouth where there's no alternative,) is a symbolic gesture. That's all. If one is deserving of such contempt, then spitting on them is just a sign of utter disrespect. Yes, it's filthy and disgusting.... and that's the point. It wouldn't be a sign of utter disrespect and hatred if it were polite or pleasant.

    I have never met anyone in my life that I would feel compelled or justified to spit on (!!), but I can assure you, if anyone ever abused or killed any of my family members (particularly my children) I would spit on their dead corpse with a smile on my face.... and I'm sure I would feel a little better for it.

    As for spitting being a punishable offense.... well, if I were ever enraged and emotionally charged enough to spit on someone, I would be at the point where I would be past caring about punishment.


    As I have said before, silence is the most powerful rebuke of all.

    Offer the grave silence - and then some.
    I disagree totally with that. Silence is often no rebuke at all. How many people have continued to suffer and be victimised in their lives due to keeping silent?? How many others have suffered abuse never to speak out about their abuser and therefore the abuser has gone on to cause pain and suffering to others??

    When I think of silence, I think of quiet time taken out to pay respect to fallen soldiers on ANZAC day, or to pay respects to some well-known and liked deceased person. I think of people who have such strong feelings for each other that words can do them no justice, so they say nothing. I think of people who can't utter a word or it may break the spell of love. And then I think of all the people in the world who could have contributed so much good and glory to this world if only they'd had the self-confidence to speak - if only they thought themselves to be worthy of it. So too the victims that remain hushed in silent shame, preventing them from reaching out to others and becoming healed.

    I can't ever really see silence as a positive thing when it comes to dealing with abusive people. Sometimes emotional release is justified.... and this is what "spitting" in this context is representative of.


    I agree with your other points though, and can see that you are a woman of good breeding.
    Lucky you softened your criticisms with that last thought though eh?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    i say if you cant speak ill, you shouldent be able to speak well. if you speak well, those who may have reason to speak ill will not be heard, by the "dont speak ill of the dead" rule
    It is perfectly acceptable to 'speak well of the dead'; the stricture is only against those who would speak ill of the dead, for the various reasons given already by myself and others.

    To recap;
    If you praise someone behind their back, no one will censure you.
    However, if you speak ill behind someone's back, many will think you to be a sneaky stirrer of ill will and a coward.
    Therefore, speaking ill of the dead is of that ilk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvrtko_Kotromanic View Post
    If someone is dead, and I didn't like him, his achievements or deeds, I'll give him his peace. He's dead and I don't care any more about him. If I can't say anything good, I don't say anything at all!
    I agree - it is straightforward decency really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esther Helena View Post
    I find the type of people Bridie mentioned to be unworthy of my spit.
    Another good point; when you hate someone, you actually bring that person and yourself to the same level; you actually make them worthy of your attention!
    This is why the Left are so full of hate for Racial Nationalists; they want to raise themselves to the level of those they hate by hating them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    Moody, you can't be serious! Spitting itself ... is a symbolic gesture. It ... is just a sign of utter disrespect. Yes, it's filthy and disgusting.... and that's the point. It wouldn't be a sign of utter disrespect and hatred if it were polite or pleasant.
    My tongue was slightly in my cheek [how can you spit when your tongue is stuck there like that!], but I stand by what I said.
    May I suggest that spitting may be more of a female thing though?
    Just as the open handed slap and the use of nails to scratch is also more female?

    I think spitting is unworthy of males; and I note, as I said before, that it is more common among the men of non-Aryan races.

    I agree that spitting is symbolic, just as are hand-gestures, blowing-raspberrys, exposing buttocks and the removing of shoes etc.,

    But because spitting involves the spraying of saliva it is so unhygenic as to be abominable, especially when today all kinds of germs can be found in spittle.
    I am personally opposed to the unwanted discharging of bodily fluids, period [no pun intended], no matter what the provocation.

    I have never met anyone in my life that I would feel compelled or justified to spit on (!!), but I can assure you, if anyone ever abused or killed any of my family members (particularly my children) I would spit on their dead corpse with a smile on my face.... and I'm sure I would feel a little better for it.
    How can you know how you would feel if that had happened to you, unless it already has?

    Silence is often no rebuke at all. How many people have continued to suffer and be victimised in their lives due to keeping silent?? How many others have suffered abuse never to speak out about their abuser and therefore the abuser has gone on to cause pain and suffering to others??
    I am advocating silence within the ambit of this scenario - not speaking ill of the dead.

    I think a misunderstanding of this [and a straying from the point] is where a lot of the disagreement on this thread has come from.

    I am not saying you can't speak ill of the dead per se; I am not saying that you have to be silent in every situation where you find yourself in disagreement.

    No, I am saying that within the circumstances meant to be covered by the axiom, 'Of the dead say nothing' [i.e., when someone has just died] it is better at that time [if you disliked the person who has just died] to say nothing.

    Of course, if someone living is bullying you then you can make as much noise as you think necessary!

    When I think of silence, I think of quiet time taken out to pay respect to fallen soldiers on ANZAC day, or to pay respects to some well-known and liked deceased person.
    Good point - in Britain we often have a "minutes' silence" for public figures who have just died; in a way that sums up what I have been saying all along.

    Silence is the most dignified response to recent bereavement.

    I can't ever really see silence as a positive thing when it comes to dealing with abusive people. Sometimes emotional release is justified.... and this is what "spitting" in this context is representative of.
    I agree with the first bit, but will always draw the line at spitting, personally - call me sqeamish.

    Lucky you softened your criticisms with that last thought though eh?
    I'm keeping my real feelings hid for fear of getting a greenie from you!
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  6. #36
    Senior Member nätdeutsch's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't speak ill of the Dead"

    its still a double standard. being able to speak well but not ill.

    this way, only one side fo a story gets told. if a person is lauded for great accomplishments in a public office, but he hurt many people while doing that, and they were silenced while that person was alive, shouldent that person be able to come out and speak finally?

    if your uncle molested you as a child and he dies in a freak car accident, should you be obligated to never tell anyone, and therefore not speaking ill and not telling the truth such as: "he was a mean man" "he did a horrible thing"? It would be foolish to think so, but by the logic of some of the posters, even then, that victim would not be "allowed" to speak.

    the dead cannot defend themselves, but if they have lived a good life, they do not need to, and people will understand that. if someone slams a good person injustly, IGNORE them; its not that hard. The other side of the story should always be told, trying to supress it proves that the other side might have a point.

    just because your opinion of someone is good doesnt mean everyone else's is. be respectful to others and they will be respectful to you, even if you have different opinions.

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    Grin Re: "Don't speak ill of the Dead"

    May I suggest that spitting may be more of a female thing though?
    Just as the open handed slap and the use of nails to scratch is also more female?

    I think spitting is unworthy of males; and I note, as I said before, that it is more common among the men of non-Aryan races.
    No you may not. I would have thought that if anything men would be more likely to spit than women given their somewhat over-emotional, aggressive and in times of pressure or stress, completely irrational natures.

    Nevertheless, in regards to your implication that women are less worthy than men (of what, one can only speculate), I can only be annoyed by your condescention. I don't know.... maybe you're just trying to say that spitting is effeminate (thereby insulting non-Aryan males by calling them "girls" essentially? )??? In which case, I have to ask.... what do you perceive to be effeminate about spitting exactly? Perhaps you have a very warped veiw of femininity??


    I agree with the first bit, but will always draw the line at spitting, personally - call me sqeamish.
    "Squeamish"? Hmmm... maybe "effeminate" would be more fitting....


    I'm keeping my real feelings hid for fear of getting a greenie from you!
    Very wise Moody... very wise....





  8. #38
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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: "Don´t speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop View Post
    I assume you never have spoken out negatively about Stalinism or Christianity then? I think I should try the search function of the forum.
    Following this line of thought: Hitler, Stalin, Roosevelt--all dead--how many people can say good things about all three in the same breath?

  9. #39
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Re: "Don't speak ill of the Dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    its still a double standard. being able to speak well but not ill.
    If you are concentrating purely on the injunction being against speaking, then you have a point.

    However, I believe that the operative word in the maxim, and therefore its dominant sense, is that of speaking "ill".

    Why do I say that?

    Because it is an ethical maxim.

    It is therefore not concerned with 'speaking as such', but with 'good & bad' [or good & ill], which is an ethical concern.

    Therefore as an ethical standpoint, it is not a "double standard".

    this way, only one side fo a story gets told. if a person is lauded for great accomplishments in a public office, but he hurt many people while doing that, and they were silenced while that person was alive, shouldent that person be able to come out and speak finally?
    I agree with you generally.

    I am concentrating really on the time of a person's death and of his funeral.

    After that, then dirty laundery can be washed, although I don't think that ad hominem attacks ever accomplish much at any time.
    Although the facts should certainly be brought out in good time.

    And timing is everything here.

    To give an example.

    A happily married couple: the husband dies, and within a week the wife remarries, to her husband's best friend.
    This would be seen as very disrespectful to the deceased.

    Now, no-one is saying that the woman shouldn't ever re-marry; one is not even saying that the woman shouldn't re-marry her husband's best friend.

    No, it is rather to do with appropriateness: the appropriate time and place.

    So 'do not speak ill of the dead' just says that at the time of death/funeral, do not make personal attacks against the deceased; rather say nothing.

    Later, if you want to put things into the frame that you believe have been neglected, then do so.

    But rabid personal attacks ['speaking ill'] rarely achieve much anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    In regards to your implication that women are less worthy than men (of what, one can only speculate), I can only be annoyed by your condescention. I don't know.... maybe you're just trying to say that spitting is effeminate (thereby insulting non-Aryan males by calling them "girls" essentially? In which case, I have to ask.... what do you perceive to be effeminate about spitting exactly? Perhaps you have a very warped veiw of femininity?
    By "worthy" I must have meant 'not worthy of masculinity'.

    For me, masculine and feminine are poles apart, and everything should be done to widen that distance further.

    I think there are certain generally unworthy behaviours which are particularly unworthy of men, [but less so of women] just as there are certain unworthy behaviours that are particularly unworthy of women [but less so of men].

    An example: men can get away with swearing, using bad language etc., [although this is generally unworthy] in a way that women cannot.
    Call me old-fashioned, but I find women using bad language completely beyond the pale and wrong at all times.

    Similarly, a woman may spit because she does not have the fighting skills or the physical [as opposed to emotional] aggression necessary to challenge an opponent in the way that is natural to a man.
    If a pig of a man fondles a woman inappropriately, one could forgive the woman for spitting at the man [even though spitting is disgusting].

    However, if a man were to, say, jostle another man, it would be rather unacceptable for the man jostled to counter with spitting.
    No, this would be completely unworthy of any man.
    The man should respond with a either a measured verbal or physical retaliation - but not spitting!

    This is all about ethical behaviour and its relation to the sexes; such ethics also vary across cultures and races.
    So I do not intend to be condescending here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post
    Following this line of thought: Hitler, Stalin, Roosevelt--all dead--how many people can say good things about all three in the same breath?
    I agree - but think of the way the Left-wing 'partisans' treated Mussolini - spitting on his body, hanging his corpse upside down in a market place to be 'spoken ill of'.

    I can't imagine true Aryans doing such a thing to their enemies.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    I think the relation of the moment to the person's death and the people you're speaking to matter. I found it tasteless how when Haider died some people started badmouthing him and gossiping about his love life. I found it even more tasteless that he was insulted on a nationalist forum like this by some people with lack of understanding.

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