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Thread: Chirac set to ban Moslem headscarves in schools

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    Post Free Austria Attracts Hijab-Clad French, German Girls

    Muslim Students Flock to Austria Where Headscarves Are No Problem
    Deutsche Presse Agentur

    VIENNA, 23 December 2003 — Female Muslim students facing bans from the French and German public education systems for wearing headscarves are starting to flock to Austria where the scarves are no problem at all.

    “There’s freedom for headscarves in Austria,” said the Vienna Turkish-language monthly magazine Yeni Hareket (New Movement). A teacher was allowed to wear one, and so were her students.

    Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel pointed out in the magazine Profil there was no restriction on religious symbols or clothing, whatever the religion: “Here, a nun can give religious instruction in schools. Austria is an example of tolerance. We don’t have to import all our discussions from Germany.”

    In Germany a number of states are working on laws banning headscarves in schools and universities.

    The government of the state of Bavaria has already approved a ban. It sees the scarves as a “political symbol” and wants the public protected from what it perceives as fundamentalist influences.

    In France, which does not allow religious instruction in public schools, President Jacques Chirac urged the Parliament to pass a law banning headscarves and other visible symbols of religion in schools.

    It was necessary in order that the country’s youth would not be “exposed to an evil wind that divided (them),” he said in a reference to religious fanaticism.

    The French law is also expected to ban visible symbols of other religions in schools, including Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses.

    Pupils will still be allowed to wear discreet symbols of faith.

    Many of the female Muslim students in Vienna are graduates of the Turkish Islamic Imam Hatep schools.

    They have qualified for university-level education, but are not allowed to study in secular Turkey because they refuse to take off their headscarves.

    In Turkey, millions of women in fact wear headscarves and nobody minds. However, the head covering is not allowed for employees in public service, whether in ministries, courts, city halls, banks, hospitals, or educational institutes.


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    Post Re: Chirac set to ban Muslim headscarves in schools

    Some one mentioned that Arabs should go back where they came from. Arabs in general after boundries were drawn, didnt come to European nations to live in our Western Nations. But we went to Arab nations and ruled them. We ruled Islamic nations for decades. And that is why the French have alot of immigrants from the countries they ruled. Since many French Army apologists from Alegria afraid for their life in Algeria moved to France, this began a trend.

    Arabs didnt go to our lands first, we went to their lands first.

    I have lived in Arab countries of Libya, Lebanon, and Yemen for years, cause of my fathers job, and Arabs treated me like a King.

    If we hadnt gone and ruled their country they wouldnt be in ours. And European immigration policies need to be changed. Thats the only way to correct the problem.
    The Jew cannot trust and must never expect to build any relationship between himself and the Gentile. Between Jews and Gentiles there is an unbridgeable gap. No agreements, no "faith-building", and no "normalization". Any attempt to be "nice" and to make "peace" with him will just create illusions that will eventually explode in the Jew's face. The only healthy approach is to distance ourselves as much as possible from dialogue and deals. Only thus will we prosper. Only thus will we avoid dangerous and unnecessary illusions - Binyamin Zev Kahane (2002)

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    Post Re: Chirac set to ban Muslim headscarves in schools

    Sponging off the former colonizers is not some kind of noble righting of wrongs. It's capitalizing on past events and this is learned behavior from Jewish example, even! The Jews use the Holocaust as an excuse to brutalize and murder Arabs, and the North African Muslims (and others) use the European colonial past as an excuse to invade Europe, make all kinds of demands, and in the process- ostracize themselves.

    Why go where one is not welcome? Does that seem like Islamic behavior, to go into another people's land and throw a series of tantrums when things aren't exactly as you want? To me, it seems more like behavior learned from Jews.

    They need to wake up. Life is a struggle. No where in the Qur'an does it say politicians, laws, anti-racist organizations, etc will make life easy for you.

    Allah would make the burden light for you, for man was created weak.- 004.028

    In the US when groups of people decided the established schools weren't good, they built their own, and so we have lots of private/parochial schools which are actually the best. I take it North Africans are too lazy and stupid and expect everything to be handed to them (must be the negro genes).

    I'm not sticking up for these people because I like them, in fact I think they suck. They are troublemakers making themselves resented. Spiritually they are failing themselves as well. They aren't thinking of the best interests of their spiritual community by emigrating to a Secular Fundamentalist country. They are looking out for their wallets and their vain hungers for material possessions. We're talking about bigtime hypocrites here. It was solely worldly reasons which brought them there.

    But on principle I support an individual's right to choose whatever religion they want, to raise their family in whatever religion, to practice their religion privately or in public. I am very opposed to the French ban on hijab, yarmulkes, hindu deities, Thor's hammer, buddhist robes, atheist darwin fish, political symbols, etc! The state should not interfere in peoples' belief/religion/politics, and according to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, they cannot.

    I guess when it comes down to it, I'm just a freedom-loving hippy!

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    Post Re: Chirac set to ban Muslim headscarves in schools

    The poor fool Chirac thinks that the multi-racialist propaganda that peoples heads get pumped full of actually have some sort of standing in truth, he doesn't realise the hypocrisy of the false propagandas, Chirac doesn't realise that the system of multi-culturalism is wired so that evil, Honkey, white people have their culture, identity and race dissolve in their own nations while the culture, identity and race of wandering vermin is forced upon their host nation!

    Taking this into account it is quite logical for Chirac to say that no Jew should wear a yarmulke, no Muslim should wear a headscarf and no Christian should wear a cross.

    Chirac is not doing this for the protection of Frances identity, or the protection of the French people from Muslim extremism he is doing this because he truly believes the Jewish lies he has been fed! If Chirac was truly trying to protect the French people he would remove the parasitic people from his nation not simply force them to remove their headscarves!

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    Post Re: Free Austria Attracts Hijab-Clad French, German Girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryggvi
    LMAO .... try to wear a Svastika or even a Celtic Cross in Austria, and you will see and feel their "tolerance". The ban is absolute - even applies to Buddhists.
    Just for interest sake - if I go to Austria on holiday on a British passport, wearing a huge Celtic Cross around my neck, would they prosecute me?

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    Post Muslim leader endorses France's headscarf ban

    Muslim leader endorses France's headscarf ban

    December 31, 2003

    BY HENRY SAMUEL

    PARIS -- The head of the biggest university in Islam Tuesday backed France's drive to ban the Muslim headscarf in its schools, despite the prohibition being condemned by the Arab world.

    Sheikh Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, the grand mufti of the al-Azhar mosque in Cairo and the foremost authority in Sunni Islam, said France had the right to pass a law banning all "conspicuous" religious symbols in state schools and institutions.

    Wearing the headscarf was "a divine obligation for all Muslim women" that no governing Muslim could deny, he said in a joint press conference with Nicolas Sarkozy, France's interior minister.

    But, he added, that obligation only applied "if the woman lives in a Muslim country."

    He quoted verses from the Quran stipulating that any Muslim who conforms to the laws of a non-Muslim country need not fear divine punishment. Until Tuesday the sheikh had remained silent over the issue, describing it as "an internal French affair."

    His words will greatly reassure Jacques Chirac, whose recent call for a new law banning headscarves, skullcaps or large crosses, while allowing more discreet symbols of religious identity, received popular support in France but was greeted with anger and dismay throughout the Islamic world.

    Earlier this week some 150 Islamic students threw tomatoes at the French embassy in Teheran to cries of "Death to France. Death to Chirac, the Zionist" after the Iranian president called on France to drop the ban.

    Chirac has received letters of protest from the muftis of Syria and Lebanon.

    Daily Telegraph

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    Post Re: Chirac set to ban Muslim headscarves in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by CelticofArabia
    Some one mentioned that Arabs should go back where they came from. Arabs in general after boundries were drawn, didnt come to European nations to live in our Western Nations. But we went to Arab nations and ruled them. We ruled Islamic nations for decades. And that is why the French have alot of immigrants from the countries they ruled. Since many French Army apologists from Alegria afraid for their life in Algeria moved to France, this began a trend.

    Arabs didnt go to our lands first, we went to their lands first.

    I have lived in Arab countries of Libya, Lebanon, and Yemen for years, cause of my fathers job, and Arabs treated me like a King.

    If we hadnt gone and ruled their country they wouldnt be in ours. And European immigration policies need to be changed. Thats the only way to correct the problem.
    wrong.. dont they teach history in the US ???? arab expansion began around 650 ad with Muhammed.. and Europeans first met them as defenders of their native soil at Poitiers... the crusades where a direct retallion to their aggresive offensive... the Spanish did Europe the greatest of favors when they expelled these foreign semites.... anyway.. what do u think a muslim country would say if 16 Mlilj Christians made arrogant claims as immigrants in Syria for example???

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    Post Re: Chirac set to ban Muslim headscarves in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by CelticofArabia
    Arabs didnt go to our lands first, we went to their lands first.
    As GW has alluded to the Arabs ruled over Spain for centuries and attempted to penetrate France well before the relatively brief modern period of Europeon hegemony (ie colonization of 19th and 20th cneturies) over North Africa and the levant. In the 600's AD Arabs left Arabia and conquered North Africa, a place Arabs had not lived before, from Europeon Byzantium. In the realm of imperialism Arabs (as well as Islam for that matter) are hardly the innocents some proclaim. If a wag wanted to, they could as easily make the claim that Europe was in North Africa before the Arabs and that Europe had the right to demand it back.

    As for Arabia itself (that is the penninsula) Europe never did conquer, occupy, or colonize the ancestral homeland of the Arab people (unlike what Europe is now experiencing at Arab peoples hands-amongst others) No question most Europeons wish that our people had not engaged in colonization of North Africa and acknowledge that colonization was wrong, same as it's wrong for the Arabs to colonize Europe; why so many of today's Europeons do not see that second part plainly (that is that Europe's own colonization is wrong) you'll have to ask them.
    Last edited by Gladstone; Wednesday, January 14th, 2004 at 02:51 PM.
    Turman found a copy of The Graduate, and thought highly enough of the story that he made a movie he considered to be 90-percent faithful to the book.

    But Turman and director Mike Nichols made one key adaptation, changing the Braddocks from WASP-y blonde characters into a dark-haired, more ethnic-looking family.

    From NPR's Present at the Creation

    http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/patc/graduate/

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    Post Re: Chirac set to ban Muslim headscarves in schools

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/sto...126938,00.html

    French MPs reappraise plan to outlaw veils

    Schools ban forms focus for discontent

    Jon Henley in Paris
    Tuesday January 20, 2004
    The Guardian

    The French government's plan to ban Islamic veils from schools came under sustained fire yesterday when MPs, shaken by a weekend of protests and violence, began asking whether the move would inflame religious tensions rather than ease them.
    Most commentators feel President Jacques Chirac has invested too much in the proposed ban to back down now. But fears that the bill may alienate Muslims more than it helps integrate them have been significantly increased by marches against the ban on Saturday in more than a dozen French and foreign cities, and by Sunday's carbombing aimed at a top public official of Muslim origin.

    So far, bound by party lines, no senior members of either the ruling UMP or the Socialist opposition have questioned the wisdom of the law, which will outlaw all religious symbols from state schools from September.

    "I had my reservations, and I still have them, about a law that can only pour oil on the fires of extremism," said François Bayrou, leader of the UMP's main parliamentary ally, the centrist UDF party.

    "In the aim of fighting extremism, we are in fact abandoning the field."

    Many observers fear that the fundamentalists' message - that Muslims in France are being discriminated against and denied one of their fundamental rights - could find many willing converts among an already disadvantaged Islamic community.

    "The headscarf question is political manipulation," said one Muslim leader, Karim Bouzid. "The real issues for us are high unemployment in the Muslim community, violence and harassment, discrimination in jobs and housing. The strife is only just beginning, believe me."

    The daily newspaper Libération said in its editorial that it was fast becoming plain that "unless the proposed headscarf ban is accompanied by a vigorous effort on serious integration, it will be nothing but a useless annoyance".

    Within the ranks of the UMP, Edouard Balladur, head of parliament's foreign affairs committee, is the most senior figure to have spoken against "opportunistic" legislation which in his view risks "poisoning things irretrievably".

    But several junior MPs said yesterday they saw the law as "excessive", "unnecessary" and "counter-productive". One, Jean-Marc Nesme, told Libération the government was going "too far; it will offend the vast majority of believers".

    A UMP colleague, Alain Madelin, said the bill would "play into the hands of the National Front".

    Between 30,000 and 40,000 Muslims marched against the ban in Paris, Marseille, Lille and other French cities on Saturday. Abroad, protesters gathered in London, Berlin, Brussels, Cairo and Bethlehem.

    The bomb that destroyed the car of Aissa Dermouche, the newly appointed prefect of the Jura region, was seen as a further example of the rising tensions unleashed by the veil debate.

    Most French people back the veil ban on the grounds that the prized secularism of the republic, and particularly of the state education system, must be defended against the demands of an increasingly radical Islam.

    The national ombudsman, Bernard Stasi, who headed the commission that recommended legislation, said yesterday it would be "a catastrophe if the republic is forced to give in to the Islamists".

    The first victim of the growing row will almost certainly be the French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM), the now divided government-sponsored umbrella group supposed to help Muslims find their place in French society. "It risks falling apart," said the mufti of Marseille, Sohaib Bensheikh, a leading moderate member. "I'm very much in the minority and don't feel very comfortable there."

    Commentators have warned that Islamic extremists are already dictating the terms of the public debate: the Paris protest was organised by the minuscule Party of French Muslims, which numbers only a few hundred members but whose openly anti-semitic leader, Mohamed Latrèche, has shot to media prominence.

    The Simon Wiesenthal Centre asked the interior ministry yesterday to take action against Mr Latrèche's "incitement to Jew-hatred" - he has denounced Jews as "having everything, while Muslims have nothing", and compared Zionism to apartheid - and urged mainstream Muslim leaders to disassociate themselves from him.

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    Post Re: Chirac set to ban Muslim headscarves in schools

    More pics from Muslim pro-hijab protests in France, Lebanon and Palestine.

    Aren't some of these angry, screaming Arab women the very embodiment of the modesty they think a square of fabric creates and protects? Wearing a veil on your hair or a cross on your neck is meaningless if it is just for show. This is the kind of behavior I would expect from blacks if the government outlawed FUBU or bling-bling. These chicks need to take their scarves off and look into getting some inner modesty first.

    "O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of God's signs, that they may take heed." (Quran 7:26)

    "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments . . . that they should draw their khimar (veil/coverings) over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..."
    (Quran 24:30-31)

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