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Thread: German Community in Chile

  1. #1
    kharas
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    German Community in Chile

    I open this tread to talk about the importance of germans in Chile, and to see if there are more chilean people in this forum (I think, they will be the main interested in this thread).


    As a first example of it's importance, we had the army modernization, by Emile Körner, this a few years after pacific war / saltpeter's war that Chile won against armies of peru and bolivians (both of here called despectively "cholos", by it's darkier skin, and because they are predominantly mestizos, while we are predominantly white). Körner, manage the army to make a powerful force, even that in firsts years of XX century, the kronprinz Eugen came to Chile and say that, except by numbers (by population reasons), this army has nothing to envide to the one that march in Berlin (i.e. Imperial German Army).

    That is only one aof many roles of importance played by germans here. Another one is the sovereignity exercise in early unpopulated south, building cities, rebuilding destroyed cities, and avoiding Argentina expansionist ambitions (I have nothing "a priori" against argentinian, so welcome you all to this thread)..

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    Senior Member Southern Jarl's Avatar
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    Re: German community in Chile

    Quote Originally Posted by kharas View Post
    this a few years after pacific war / saltpeter's war that Chile won against armies of peru and bolivians (both of here called despectively "cholos", by it's darkier skin, and because they are predominantly mestizos, while we are predominantly white).


    Hmm, this is some piece of news...Chileans predominantly "white"? What a surprise, I thought that Chile remained predominantly mestizo, a legacy from Colonial times -and having this "thought" (which I hold more as a fact rather than a "thought" ) confirmed by relatives who have been there, and from the Chileans (from diverse social backgrounds) I've actually met, I'm dumbfounded by what you've written.
    Oh, another thing: bear in mind that the rank and file of all South American armies are and have been of mixed racial origins (mestizos and/or mulattoes). So, most of the times it was "cholos" vs. "cholos"...The only "white" units were mercenaries from Europe (often Germans). There may have been some other exceptions throughout "our" (I hate to generalize like this) history, but what I’ve said applies to the whole of Latin America.


    Another one is the sovereignity exercise in early unpopulated south, building cities, rebuilding destroyed cities, and avoiding Argentina expansionist ambitions (I have nothing "a priori" against argentinian, so welcome you all to this thread)..


    Well, "expanisonism" can be seen from both sides. All you "own" from Chiloé southwards is because of Chilean expansionism and opportunism. While in Colonial times those territories belonged to the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata" and were not part of the "Capitanía de Chile" (which would later be "Chile"), once we broke free from the Spainiards we (Argentineans), as former seat of the Viceroyalty, inherited such territories. However, this was all theoretical for Spanish civilization had never reached such unexplored corners. It was in the 1840's, if I recall correctly, when, urged by an Argie, Domingo F. Sarmiento (who would later become President of Argentina), Chileans sent expeditions to take such lands from the natives. Well, the whole history is much more complex, to be more thorough we should go through all the later territorial disputes…but the point is that initial claim was certainly ours, and thus we can see where true "expansionism" came from.

  3. #3
    kharas
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    Re: German community in Chile

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Jarl View Post
    Hmm, this is some piece of news...Chileans predominantly "white"? What a surprise, I thought that Chile remained predominantly mestizo, a legacy from Colonial times -and having this "thought" (which I hold more as a fact rather than a "thought" ) confirmed by relatives who have been there, and from the Chileans (from diverse social backgrounds) I've actually met, I'm dumbfounded by what you've written.
    Oh, another thing: bear in mind that the rank and file of all South American armies are and have been of mixed racial origins (mestizos and/or mulattoes). So, most of the times it was "cholos" vs. "cholos"...The only "white" units were mercenaries from Europe (often Germans). There may have been some other exceptions throughout "our" (I hate to generalize like this) history, but what I’ve said applies to the whole of Latin America.
    You missunderstood me, but reading, I discover that it was my fault. I will try to explain me better.

    First, relative to "cholos" term, I was not talking about armies in war, I was talking about the majourity component of their countries society.
    Second, I do not know how was the colonial times in Argentina, but in Chile, mestizo unions were socially discouraged, and even prohibited, it was called AMANCEBAMIENTO. Mestizos were despised by spanish whites and by mapuche aborigins. Moreover, they were constantly in war. Spanish do not conquered mapuche lands, and they even destroyed many cities, including Santiago in their raids.

    I know why they confirmed you that chile is mainly mestizo: Because here that is "politically correct" to say. why? Firstly because mapuche do not feel as chileans, and want independence to stablishes the "Wallmapu" (mapuche word for its kingdom) and it is an strategy to calm they (I am convinced of it, but I can not prove it, because is not official)
    Secondly because they are "discrimined" by chilean society (even exists a legal separation between chileans and mapuche), and government wants reduce the discrimination levels.

    Third, in chilean universities exists the "mapuche ascendent BECA"(I do not know how to translate BECA, maybe founding? but you know what I am saying) which requires to be mestizo or mapuche, having at least one mapuche surname (estrictly speaking, the Beca is indigenian ascendant, but I used mapuche because they are main indigenian tribe in Chile, and they are farly more numerous than any other).

    Fourthly, medium chilean is 85 + % of europid (mainly spanish) and 15- indigenian, I even say that this relation is 90-10 or a bit more in favour of white race, but say that is considered racism here. Anyway, that it is medium chilean, not me.
    Honestly I say you, Chileans are not mainly mestizos, argentinians neither.
    Well, "expanisonism" can be seen from both sides. All you "own" from Chiloé southwards is because of Chilean expansionism and opportunism. While in Colonial times those territories belonged to the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata" and were not part of the "Capitanía de Chile" (which would later be "Chile"), once we broke free from the Spainiards we (Argentineans), as former seat of the Viceroyalty, inherited such territories. However, this was all theoretical for Spanish civilization had never reached such unexplored corners. It was in the 1840's, if I recall correctly, when, urged by an Argie, Domingo F. Sarmiento (who would later become President of Argentina), Chileans sent expeditions to take such lands from the natives. Well, the whole history is much more complex, to be more thorough we should go through all the later territorial disputes…but the point is that initial claim was certainly ours, and thus we can see where true "expansionism" came from.
    I do not want to engage in a fight against argentinian members by this. Expansionism is still present in argentinian government (I do not say that is evil, even, I found natural to a growing state to try growing in territories), in this lasts days I could talking you about Campos de Hielo conflict, and I have vastly documentation about that theme, but as I said, I do not want a conflict here.

    On history: Chiloé was part of Peruvian Viceroyalty, and also, the last steps of Chilean administration was in there too.
    Chile takes it when a peruvian force was going take it.

    Chilean and Argentinians first limits corresponds to Uti Possidetis Juris, that stablishes same frontiers as in colonial times. This was reacorded by the two countries in 1856. By this treaty, Chile limits to Argentina in Oriental Patagony (now belonging to Argentina) in Río Negro.

    However, Chile rennounced to possesion and ambitions otherside of Andes, and I will not attack you by this,

    If you want, we may discuss this more extensively, but this is not the place.

    I suposse to be in good terms with you and all argentinians here.
    Am I wrong in that? I wish not.
    Greetings.
    Last edited by Oswiu; Sunday, December 17th, 2006 at 02:46 AM.

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    Senior Member Todesritter's Avatar
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    Re: German community in Chile

    Thanks for starting this thread - I have an interest in the South American Germans.


    My grandfather's second wife is descended of Chilean ethnic Germans.

    Also one of my female German friends worked doing a customer support line for a while in Germany, and she said she had been routed a call, because of her ability to speak many dialects for many of the older customers from rural corners of Germany, and from the former German cultural/ethno/linguistic areas in central and eastern Europe before 1950, whose Hochdeutsch was poor. This call she was routed though she could not understand, because the caller was a Chilean German, and spoke a Thuringian dialect that has died out in Germany proper over two centuries ago, but apparently still thrives in several prosperous villages on the western slopes of the southern Andes.

  5. #5
    kharas
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    Re: German community in Chile

    In Chile, german communities and also ohter europeans) stablishes almost in colonies, and in fact, they are very closely related each to other (even, just like they are commonly in higher straits of society they are called colonies still today).

    By this reason, old speaking forms can morph into news forms by the influence of local people or remains in "natural state" by trying to conserve identity. I think the second was the case that you are speaking about.

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    Re: German community in Chile

    Chile is about 35% white/Europid in acordding to their census. The rest is mostly mestizo but at difference of Mexico where mestizo means mostly indian and many indians are called mestizos. That 65% of the population is acordding to genetic tests is mostly Europid 65% and 35% native. There are few Ntive population less than 5%.

    Of that 35% of Europids, non-Spanish European immigrants arrived in Chile - mainly to the northern and southern extremities of the country - during the XIX and XX centuries, including English, Irish, Italians, French, and Balkans. In 1848 a small but noteworthy German immigration took place, sponsored by the Chilean government with aims of colonising the southern region. German immigration influenced in a certain way the cultural composition of the southern provinces of Valdivia, Llanquihue and Osorno.


    Most of the Germans in Chile are in the Chilean part of the Patagonia, there are also some Swiss there.

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    Re: German community in Chile

    ""Thanks for starting this thread - I have an interest in the South American Germans.

    My grandfather's second wife is descended of Chilean ethnic Germans.""



    Here you have more info:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_...#Latin_America

  8. #8
    kharas
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    Re: German community in Chile

    Quote Originally Posted by Here View Post
    Chile is about 35% white/Europid in acordding to their census. The rest is mostly mestizo but at difference of Mexico where mestizo means mostly indian and many indians are called mestizos. That 65% of the population is acordding to genetic tests is mostly Europid 65% and 35% native. There are few Ntive population less than 5%.

    Of that 35% of Europids, non-Spanish European immigrants arrived in Chile - mainly to the northern and southern extremities of the country - during the XIX and XX centuries, including English, Irish, Italians, French, and Balkans. In 1848 a small but noteworthy German immigration took place, sponsored by the Chilean government with aims of colonising the southern region. German immigration influenced in a certain way the cultural composition of the southern provinces of Valdivia, Llanquihue and Osorno.


    Most of the Germans in Chile are in the Chilean part of the Patagonia, there are also some Swiss there.
    Excellent information. I was trying to say something like this. I must say that the % of native blood in "mestizos" is really lower that what appears in the census.
    Finally, wikipedia is not a very trustable font, because is free edible, even, I am a registered user and sometimes I write on it.
    But certainly it explain what I was trying to say is no exactly but nearby.

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    Re: German community in Chile

    ""wikipedia is not a very trustable font, because is free edible, even, I am a registered user and sometimes I write on it.""

    true, but it's also true that people editing wikipedia removed non reliable information fast when it's false. And all the info in the articles need citations, or completed agreement between the wikipedians in order to be posted in the end. All the data in that article named the sources (mostly the census and the genetic studies in the nation) check out sources at the end of the article.

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    AW: German community in Chile

    As far as I know chileans consider themselves as white and are quite proud of it.
    This is very rare in the 21st century world. ; )

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