View Poll Results: Do you belive in Evolution

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  • Yes

    128 74.42%
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Thread: Do You Believe in Evolution?

  1. #31
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    Arrow Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    This often heard question demonstrates all to clearly that most "enemies" of the evolution theory don´t even take the time to read its assertions.

    Evolution is not a random process. Evolution is systematic selection of random mutations. It´s simply try and error: stable forms continue, instable forms die off. The possible variations are unlimited, the rules for selection are defined.
    I understand the principles behind the current Theory of Evolution. I've already explained that I realise that evolution is basically about random genetic mutations and then those mutations being naturally selected or not. What I meant when I said that it is basically a random process is that the very foundation of this process is random. The selection process has some degree of predictability (although is not predictable enough to be considered a "system"), spontaneously, naturally occuring mutation doesn't.


    So you believe in nothing?
    I question everything. I have no "faith".


    This semantics arguement of ours doesn't change that my whole point has been that a theory and a hypothesis are different within the scientific community.
    I wasn't arguing that they are the same thing.... I was stating that "theory" and "fact" or "truth" are NOT the same thing.


    You seem to be arguing that just because the Theory of Evolution is aguably the most likely reason for differentiation of life on earth in current times, that we should all accept it as a fact or "the truth". I think this is naive. I would rather remain open to the knowledge that it could very well be wrong.... therefore I don't commit myself to believing in it. I've never denied that it could be right.... I just don't think that it seems reasonable enough to have any great deal of confidence in it.


    Why does a process have to be controlled by an intelligent force to not be random.
    It seems reasonable to me that such a complex degree of creation and level of organisation would need an intentional, intelligent force driving it. Both the anatomy and the physiology of the human body (let alone other animal lifeforms) is incredibly intricate requiring a very sophisticated level of homeostatic balance to sustain it's life.... it doesn't seem likely to me that some randomly based process with no intelligence or purpose (how can there be purpose without intelligence?) could account for the creation of this.

    The universe consists of orderly systems created from chaos. If you think it's likely that this "order" is brought about in an unintentional, somewhat co-incidental manner, with no intelligent driving force behind it, then the Theory of Evolution will make sense to you.... but I just don't buy it.


    A scientific theory is right becuase it has yet to be proven wrong, and it has to be falsifiable by definition, so I see little need to discuss whether Evolution is right or wrong or likely or whatever.
    Not true. A scientific theory is a possibility because is has yet to be proven wrong. If it could be proven wrong, it wouldn't even be entertained as a possibility. The science world has to be open-minded enough to recognise that any theory could always be wrong. If you accept the Theory of Evolution as a LAW (not a theory) then you discount this very important truth (that it could be false).


    What would interest me most is : In what do you beleive if not in Evolution? Is it a mere religious thing?
    I'm not religious, so it's not a religious thing for me. I don't believe in the Bible's account of it all or anything.


    Also, look how easily mankind has been able to selectively breed dogs, cats, and alter crops so they are more productive, etc. Although different from evolution, this shows how easily species can change.
    This question refers to whether or not we believe that new species are able to be created through evolution.... whether or not we believe that all life on earth as we know it evolved from a single cell oranism. I haven't heard anyone argue "microevolution" yet.


    An organism recieves a random mutation through its DNA that makes it more fit to survive in it's environment.
    No, an organism's DNA is unpredictably altered by some force. If the characteristic that is brought about from that DNA mutation is advantageous to the organism, it may be naturally selected.

  2. #32
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    Wink Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    I should point out for those who have mentioned gravity.... this is a law, whereas evolution is a theory.... so the two really aren't comparable :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity

  3. #33
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    Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    I read Acquiring Genomes a while ago. An excellent book on how new species come into being.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/046...lance&n=283155
    .

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    Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Why do the anti-evolutionists never explain the earlier Hominids?(Habilis and Erectus, etc...) they always go directly to the pre-historic Apes(before the Homo genus).

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    Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-Alpine View Post
    Why do the anti-evolutionists never explain the earlier Hominids?(Habilis and Erectus, etc...) they always go directly to the pre-historic Apes(before the Homo genus).
    I assume those are all fake remains...
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.

    « -Oh my God, but you're a neo-nazi?!...
    -But why neo? »

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    AW: Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by tinman View Post
    I read Acquiring Genomes a while ago. An excellent book on how new species come into being.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/046...lance&n=283155
    Well, it makes atleast more sense then massive random mutation (maybe my random mutated third leg will help me in this natural selection, eh? ).
    Interesting theory atleast and in opposit to the book the selfish gene ( a piece of cow pat actually) worth a read and maybe just to get some new inspiration and see that there are more ways than "massive random mutations".
    Ceterum censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

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    Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    I should point out for those who have mentioned gravity.... this is a law, whereas evolution is a theory.... so the two really aren't comparable :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity
    The "fact" that something drops down and in general that two masses attract each other is a law, because it happens and we can describe it mathematically, but what is it what makes two masses attract each other? That is the theory.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  8. #38
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    AW: Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    The "fact" that something drops down and in general that two masses attract each other is a law, because it happens and we can describe it mathematically, but what is it what makes two masses attract each other? That is the theory.
    Actually masses do not really attract eachother. A mass curves space (and time). Imagine the universe as a two dimensional elastic surface. You place a bigger sphere on it and around the sphere the surface forms a bulge downwards. If you now place smaller spheres around it they will roll down the depression to the bigger sphere
    Ceterum censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

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    Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    The "fact" that something drops down and in general that two masses attract each other is a law, because it happens and we can describe it mathematically, but what is it what makes two masses attract each other? That is the theory.
    Yes, thank you. You actually say it better than my three rambling pages of crap. This is why I mentioned Gravitational Theory instead of Gravity in my original post. Though with the recent finding of actual evidence for dark matter, things may change slightly in the near future.

    http://uanews.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects...rticleID=12956

    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminatus
    Interesting theory atleast and in opposit to the book the selfish gene ( a piece of cow pat actually) worth a read and maybe just to get some new inspiration and see that there are more ways than "massive random mutations".
    Agreed. It at least deserves a read. Though, in the end a modification, it's still evolution. Out of curiosity, what exactly did you find so disagreeable in Dawkin's book?

    As before, I'm open to new ideas as to the origin of life besides evolution, but as of yet, the detractors haven't given a scientifically sound alternative. For the most part, I get:

    1. "Nuh-Uh! I didn't come from no monkey!"
    Well, no, but I'm sure once you actually learn to read and take a look at the research, you'll find that's not what it's saying.

    2. "Evolution=Atheism and Materialism, so Intelligent Design is the real answer. Where science and the Bible don't agree, science is clearly wrong."
    Intelligent Design is a comforting philosophy for many to have, I agree. The problem with intelligent design is that those who created it, did not do so intelligently. It is a "God of the gaps" hypothesis. It states that where our scientific knowledge is lacking, is where God intervened. Beyond just being plain intellectually lazy, it's also scientifically untestable because it deals with a force that resides outside of nature. If it can't be tested scientifically, it can't be considered a scientific hypothesis. A philosophy, yes, but not science.
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
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    Grin Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Why do the anti-evolutionists never explain the earlier Hominids?(Habilis and Erectus, etc...) they always go directly to the pre-historic Apes(before the Homo genus).
    People who don't blindly accept macroevolution as fact aren't necessarily "anti-evolutionists". And they don't necessarily have to discount it as a possibility. Maybe they are merely remaining skeptical, or keeping an open mind, so as to not discount other possibilities.

    But the existance of earlier hominids proves nothing anyway. So maybe that's why "anti-evolutionists" don't feel inclined to explain them.... they are irrelevant.

    Nevertheless, I prefer to skip apes altogether and go straight to amoebae.

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