View Poll Results: Do you belive in Evolution

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  • Yes

    128 74.42%
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    44 25.58%
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Thread: Do You Believe in Evolution?

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    AW: Do you believe in Evolution?

    I believe in Evolution, but I know that its "only" a theory and so its not really biased. But this theory sounds most convincing to me, not only regarding humans, but also regarding all animals...while other theories or beliefs like "God made the world, the animals and the people in 7 days" are too abstruse for me.

    But I can understand Bridie and the others, too. Its a subjective, personal matter. No one knows for sure what really happened. But personally, I think the possibility that the Evolution-theory will be proven some day is very much higher than it would be at other theories. *g* (The last sentence is grammatically a disaster, sorry )

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    On the same token, you must acknowledge then that the human mind cannot grasp the true reason for, significance of, nor mechanisms that control the universe and life itself
    I, personally, remain quite skeptical that we are not capable of this understanding. It just sounds like saying that ancient man could not have built the pyramids because he was too primitive and lacked the mathematical prowess to design and emplement them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    Wouldn't it be nice if we could jump in a time machine and go back and see what happened for ourselves? This is the only way that anything could ever be proven as a fact. Until then Macroevolution remains an unproven theory.
    Yes. And, thanks to the Theory of Relativity, we've made substantial progress in this area. We just need a little more "time"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    So those of you that believe in (the random nature of) evolution think that the presence and forms of all life on earth is a mere co-incidence? Imo, the time scale is of no consequence really.... it is more of a question of whether or not it seems reasonable that all life on earth as it is has just "accidently" come about. If one can believe that there is no "intelligence" behind the order of the universe or not. To some people this "intelligence" will be God, to others not - depending on personal beliefs.
    Well, evolution is a natural process but, at least in my mind, it is anything but random. Genetic inheritance encodes all of our drives, predispositions and likes and dislikes. That we're attracted to the most healthy or the most nurturing or even certain sub-racial characteristics while mating and building a family and community, is determined by instinct which is, in turn, determined by evolution. How is this a random process?

    It's also a false dichotomy to think that just because one believes in evolution that one also disbelieves in the existence of a god or that life is an accident. Evolution is based on science, and science deals only with the natural processes, not with the one who performs the procedure. I think that intelligent design is a garbage hypothesis, in that it is non-scientific and intellectually lazy. But, philosophically and non-scientifically, I have no problem in thinking that a being can create something of a program and, knowing all of the outcomes starts it and allows it to run with no interference on their part. As a programmer, I find this to be a nice approach. This holds true even if, as String and M-theory predict, we are but one of infinite physical dimensions. It would all just be part of a larger program; the answer to which is 42 .

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    I'm assuming you all believe in the "Big Bang" theory too?
    Yes, with variations on a theme.
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
    H.P. Lovecraft

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Well, evolution is a natural process but, at least in my mind, it is anything but random. Genetic inheritance encodes all of our drives, predispositions and likes and dislikes. That we're attracted to the most healthy or the most nurturing or even certain sub-racial characteristics while mating and building a family and community, is determined by instinct which is, in turn, determined by evolution. How is this a random process?
    Genetic mutation, which has to occur in order for new characteristics to come into existance, is random in nature. It is not dictated or controlled by intelligence (unless it occurs in a science lab).

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    1) "Well-substantiated" does not = factual.
    Well, which do you choose? The concept that is "well substaniated" or the concept that, not only is unsubstantiated but also has counter evidence disproving it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    2) "accepted knowledge" implies that it is trendy at the time, and not fixed. Facts are fixed.... "accepted" knowledge is not.

    3) "theories can incorporate facts and laws" - implying that theories are not factual, nor laws in their own rights at all - but they can incorporate them. Does a cake = an egg just because eggs may be used in the recipe?
    This is a straw man arguement. Accepted knowledge and facts are the same thing. It was "accepted" as a fact that the world was flat. It is now accepted that it is not because we have greater evidence showing otherwise. No fact is "fixed" only accepted by the majority because of substantiated evidence or rejected for their lack thereof. Science is falsifiable. Theories change and evolve when greater evidence is posited. You can never "know" the truth, only get a closer understanding of it. Theories are accepted as the closest understanding of the "facts" that we have at any given time.

    And, yes, if a cake is the sum of its parts, then part of the essence of a cake is that it is also egg.
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
    H.P. Lovecraft

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Do you believe in Evolution?


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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    Genetic mutation, which has to occur in order for new characteristics to come into existance, is random in nature. It is not dictated or controlled by intelligence (unless it occurs in a science lab).
    Random and natural are two different things. There is always cause and effect. Like loose pages falling from a notebook, the series of events may seem chaotic, but there are laws in place which govern how they fall and in which position. If things were actually random, eggs, under the same circumstances, but at different times, would explode on one occasion and spontaneously turn into an omelet on another.
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
    H.P. Lovecraft

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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    Mutations can be caused by copying errors in the genetic material during cell division and by exposure to radiation, chemicals (mutagens), or viruses, or can occur deliberately under cellular control during processes such as meiosis or hypermutation.
    If there is cause and effect, is it truly random?
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
    H.P. Lovecraft

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    Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Well, which do you choose? The concept that is "well substaniated" or the concept that, not only is unsubstantiated but also has counter evidence disproving it?
    Neither. Imo, it is foolish to believe something to be a fact simply because there is no better alternative.


    Accepted knowledge and facts are the same thing.
    No they're not. Just because something is "accepted", it doesn't mean that it is "factual". Theories come and go with fashions and change as human knowledge changes....


    It was "accepted" as a fact that the world was flat. It is now accepted that it is not because we have greater evidence showing otherwise. No fact is "fixed" only accepted by the majority because of substantiated evidence or rejected for their lack thereof.
    You're merely proving my point. A fact, or the true nature of something, doesn't merely change because of human ignorance or enlightenment. "Things" exist independantly of us too you know. It is not our understanding of them that determines their nature.

    So it was once accepted knowledge that the world was flat. It was a theory. It was not a fact, as the world is not flat. And that is not a theory because we can "prove" that it is not flat.

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    Re: Do you believe in Evolution?

    If there is cause and effect, is it truly random?
    Unless the conditions that cause the mutation are controlled by an intelligent force and the outcome of the gene's exposure to the conditions can be with all certainty predicted, yes it is random. Mutations (except in controlled conditions - in a science lab - to a degree) are unpredictable.

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Do you believe in Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    So those of you that believe in (the random nature of) evolution think that the presence and forms of all life on earth is a mere co-incidence?
    This often heard question demonstrates all to clearly that most "enemies" of the evolution theory don´t even take the time to read its assertions.

    Evolution is not a random process. Evolution is systematic selection of random mutations. It´s simply try and error: stable forms continue, instable forms die off. The possible variations are unlimited, the rules for selection are defined.

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