Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 57

Thread: Islam: A "Religion of Peace"?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    nicholas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Monday, January 2nd, 2012 @ 12:04 AM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    nebraska
    Gender
    Age
    47
    Family
    Single
    Occupation
    Trickster God
    Politics
    Pro-Freedom, Pro-Skadi
    Religion
    seeker
    Posts
    606
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Islam: A "Religion of Peace"?

    *stolen from http://redwoodreality.blogspot.com/, I also have it on my blog http://nickbravo.blogspot.com/*

    August 3, 2006

    By Andrew J. Stunich

    One of the enduring and seemingly impossible to resolve threats to World peace and safety is terrorism carried out by Muslims who claim that Islam authorizes their conduct. In response to that terrorism, a host of Islamic experts, celebrities, and politicians such as Dr. Aziz (HSU professor), Oprah Winfrey, and President Bush, have opined that Islam is a religion of peace and that the terrorists are distorting Islamic teachings to justify their conduct. Americans were inundated with this message post- 9/11/2001 to such an extent that it has become conventional wisdom and anyone who challenges that conventional wisdom is often labeled a racist or a bigot. This is true even though Muslims are hardly limited to any particular race. Arabs, for example, comprise less than twenty-five percent of the World's Muslims.

    Given the consequences of rendering any opinion that challenges the proposition that Islam is a religion of peace, it is not pleasant to feel compelled to voice a different conclusion. This is especially true about a religious topic that engenders such an extreme emotional response in so many people. However, it is important that we all know the truth so that we can properly exercise our democratic rights. It is ultimately the will of the majority (at least the majority of those who vote) that determines the long-term direction of a democratic society and if we are misinformed our votes will be equally misinformed and misguided.

    It is, therefore, crucial that we have an accurate understanding of Islamic terrorists and what motivates them. This is especially true given that Islam is not just a religion, but is a combined religious, political, and social system. Understanding the true nature of Islam is so important because there is a marked difference between a threat that is based on false religious teachings and a threat that truly derives from the actual doctrines of one of the World's most widespread religious faiths. The latter is more likely to cause the threat to endure and spread and to defy resistance.

    After intensely studying the question of Islam, I have reached the inescapable conclusion that Islamic doctrine easily supports terrorist activity and offensive (not limited to defensive) warfare. It is patently an error to assert that Islam is universally a religion of peace. I reached my conclusions by, amongst other endeavors, simply reading the Koran and hadiths (Muhammad's recorded life and deeds), both of which are universally accepted as the basis for Islamic doctrine.

    My opinion that Islam is not universally a religion of peace does not mean that I believe all Muslims are terrorists. Obviously, most Muslims are not terrorists. I further believe that most Muslims want peace; however, there is a marked difference between certain Muslims as individuals and Islamic doctrine. A writer named Theodore Dalyrymple, in a June 4, 2006, article writing for City Magazine, eloquently assessed the difference between moderate Muslims and Islamic doctrine as follows:

    "It is important, of course, to distinguish between Islam as a doctrine and Muslims as people. Untold numbers of Muslims desire little more than a quiet life; they have the virtues and the vices of the rest of mankind. Their religion gives to their daily lives an ethical and ritual structure and provides the kind of boundaries that only modern Western intellectuals would have the temerity to belittle."
    Despite the peaceful and sometimes beneficial application of some parts of Islam to some Muslims' lives, it is simply untenable to argue that peace is the main characteristic of the faith of Islam and that Islam offers no true support for some of the violence perpetrated in the name of Islam. The opposite is true. Muslims become moderate by either being unaware of the teachings that comprise Islamic doctrine, by ignoring those doctrines, or by attributing strained meanings or interpretations to the teachings of Islam and Islamic history. Because Islam does in fact support terrorism, many "moderate" Muslims respect the fundamentalists as true Muslims and are afraid to speak out against them. I also acknowledge that fear is often a factor. However, regardless as to the fear or other reasons for not speaking out, it is hard for moderate Muslims to speak out because the undeniable fact is that Islam alone among the World's religions commands the Muslim faithful to wage war against non-Muslims until they submit to Islam.

    Consider the following verses from the Koran translated from Arabic by Yusuf Ali:

    "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans [Idolaters or polytheists] wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." (Koran chapter 9, verse 5)

    "Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle [Muhammad], nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Koran chapter 9, verse 29)
    To summarize the verses, collectively they mean that Pagans (some Koran translations say idolaters) must convert to Islam or be killed and Jews and Christians must, at a minimum, submit to Islam as the dominant religion, government and social order, and pay a tax, or convert to Islam or be killed. This doctrine comes from Islam's holiest book and, as shown below, there are other aspects of Islamic doctrine that command the same violent and intolerant approach.

    These Sword Verses (some call verse 9:29 the "tribute" verse) quoted above speak strongly to Muslim fundamentalists. Because most people in the West are secular, it is often difficult for Westerners to appreciate how deeply religious belief can impact individuals and society. The impact of devout religious belief is magnified in the Islamic World because of the duel nature of Islam as a religious and political system that permeates nearly all aspects of life in most Islamic countries. Try to understand how the foregoing verses would affect you if you believed they were literally the word of God and you lived in a society wherein Islam dominated your religious, political, business and social pursuits. The Koran is the holiest book in Islam. Muslims believe that the Koran is not just inspired by God, but that it is literally the Word of God as revealed by God to Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (Islam's revered seventh century Prophet or Messenger); consequently, verses contained in the Koran impact Muslims' behavior in ways that Westerners have difficulty grasping. The Koran lists four seemingly contradictory ways in which God allegedly revealed his Word to Muhammad: Directly by God (Koran chapters 53 and 81); by God via the Archangel Gabriel (Koran chapter 2); by the Holy Spirit (Koran chapters 16 and 26); and by an Angel (Koran chapter 15).

    Regardless as to how they believe the revelations were accomplished, Muslims universally revere the Koran as the literal word of God and they revere Muhammad as God's Prophet and his life and sayings, along with the Koran, complete the core of Islamic doctrine. The University of Southern California's Islamic web site teaches Muslims that Mohammad's deeds and words were literally inspired by God. When Muhammad's life history is studied, it is easy to see why Islamic fundamentalists can justifiably say that Islam supports their actions.

    It follows that in order to understand Muslim fundamentalists, we must understand something about the Koran and the life of Muhammad and the roles both play in establishing Islamic doctrine. The Koran differs greatly in format from the Bible and the Koran tends to surprise Western readers because the Koran is not written in a narrative form, it is not in any chronological order, it has very little prophecy, no miracles, very little history, no geography, no parables, and no biography of anyone other than a limited insight into the character and life of Muhammad. The Koran is simply a relatively small book (smaller than the New Testament) of seemingly random verses of positive and negative commandments and dire warnings that Muhammad claimed were revealed to him over a twenty-two or twenty-three year period. One Islamic scholar, Reza Aslan the author of No god, but God, aptly calls the Koran a rule book for living.

    Exactly what some of those Koranic rules for living are astonish or even offend most readers who adhere to the type of Western values set forth in the U.S. Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The following paraphrased examples of the teachings in the Koran are some of the most difficult for Westerners to accept:

    * There is no separation between Church and State. (Koran chapter 2, verse 193)
    * Fighting is prescribed for Muslims. (Koran, chapter 2, verse 216)
    * Wives are a field to be used by their husbands as they desire. (Koran, chapter 2, verse 223)
    * Men are superior to women. (Koran, chapter 2, verse 228)
    * Women have half the rights of men in court as a witness. (Koran, chapter 2, verse 282)
    * A man may marry up to four wives at the same time. (Koran chapter 4, verse 3)
    * Women have half the rights of men in inheritance rights. (Koran chapter 4, verse 11)
    * A man may beat his wife. (Koran chapter 4, verse 34)
    * No opposition parties are allowed. (Koran chapter 4, verse 59)
    * Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands. (Koran chapter 5, verse 38)
    * A Muslim must not take a Jew or a Christian for a friend. (Chapter 5, verse 51)
    * Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam. (Koran chapter 9, verses 5, 29)
    * A Muslim apostate (one who leaves the faith) must be killed. (Koran chapter 9, verse 12)
    * Muslims must make war on non-Muslims. (Koran chapter 9, verse 73)
    * Adultery is punished by public flogging. (Koran chapter 24, verse 2)
    * The Koran attributes many negative characteristics to Jews, such as "falsehood" (3:71) and "distortion." (4:46)
    * Among other things, the Koran teaches that the Jews have been cursed by Allah, David, and Jesus. (2:61; 5:78-82)
    * Allah was so disgusted with Jews that he transformed them into apes and pigs. (5:60-65; 2:65; 7:166)

    The life of Muhammad also has a major impact on Islamic doctrine as Muslims are taught that any ambiguity in the Koran is resolved by looking to Muhammad's words and deeds, which, as noted above, Muslims are taught were inspired by God. The Koran expressly admonishes Muslims in several verses to not only obey God, but to obey his Messenger or Prophet, Muhammad. (See, e.g., 3:32, 3:132, 4:59, 5:92, 8:1, 8:20, 24:47) Hence, following what Muhammad said and did is mandated by the Koran.

    Accordingly, the Koran is just a part of Islamic doctrine. The hadiths are the reports of Muhammad's words and actions that complete the core of Islamic doctrine. The Koran and the hadiths are the foundations for later Islamic legal rulings known as Sharia Law. The role of the hadiths in Islam is properly explained in the University of Southern California's web site:

    "In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad (saas), the Messenger of Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an (another way Koran is spelled). Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them. The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet (saas) or what he approved - as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah as already mentioned."
    The hadiths, which set forth much of the life and deeds of Muhammad, offer no refuge to those who would try to give Islam a softer image outside the Islamic World by labeling it a religion of peace. One of the most widely accepted hadith collectors and editors is Al Bukhari. According to Bukhari:

    Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, None has the right to be worshiped but Allah, and whoever says, None has the right to be worshiped but Allah, his life and property will be saved by me." (Al Bukhari Vol. 4:196)

    Mohammed's last words at his deathbed purportedly were: "Turn the pagans (non-Muslims as that was the practical application) out of the Arabian Peninsula." (Al Bukhari, Vol. 5:716)

    Mohammed said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed). " (Al Bukhari, Vol. 1:35)

    Mohammed once was asked: what was the best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and His Apostle? His answer was: "To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause." (Al Bukhari Vol. 1: 25)

    If anyone believes that I am simply taking a few negative portions of Islamic doctrine from a sea of more enlightened Koranic verses, consider the additional verses from the Koran set forth below. Once again, to try to best understand Islam, imagine as you read these verses that you believe they are not only commandments from God, but literally the word of God as revealed to Muhammad whose words and deeds you also believe to be inspired by God.


    "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not." (2:216)

    "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, . . . And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith." (2:190-191)

    "And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression." (2:193)
    "Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers." (9:14)

    "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!" (9:30)

    "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, - an evil refuge indeed.." (9:73)

    "O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that God is with those who fear Him." (9:123)

    "The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;" (5:33)

    "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): ‘I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.' This because they contended against God and His Apostle: If any contend against God and His Apostle, God is strict in punishment." (8:12-13)

    "In order that God may separate the impure (non-Muslims) from the pure, put the impure, one on another, heap them together, and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost." (8:37)

    "Muster against them [i.e. non-Muslims] all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them who are unknown to you but known to Allah." (8:60)

    "Muhammad is the apostle of God; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. . ." (48:29)

    "When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy them utterly." (17:16)

    "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks [chop their heads off]; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been God's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of God, - He will never let their deeds be lost." (47:4)
    Nicholas Berg was kidnaped in Iraq and later beheaded in May 2004 by Islamic militants. Remember all those so-called Islamic experts that, following the Nicholas Berg beheading, said there was no support within Islamic doctrine for the cutting off of heads? Apparently the experts forgot about chapter 47, verse 4, and chapter 8, verses 12-13 from the Koran.

    With respect to the verses regarding Jihad, note that Jihad is an Arabic word which translates to English as "struggle." Jihad can mean striving to be a better Muslim (known as the greater Jihad). The most well known meaning, however, is fighting for Allah (also known as the lesser Jihad). In this sense, Jihad is the struggle for the cause of spreading Islam using all means available to Muslims, including force and deception (Islamic doctrine known as Al Takeyya). The lesser Jihad is what has become to be known as "Holy War." Some critics describe the greater Jihad as trying to find peace after engaging in violent Jihad.

    Concerning Jihad, the Koran guarantees Paradise to those who fight for Allah. (4:74) The Koran promises instant Paradise for those who die fighting to advance Islam. (9:111 and 47:5-6) Dying for Allah is presented as preferable to living: "And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of God, forgiveness and mercy from God are far better than all they could amass." (3:157)

    Martyrs are promised a secure, sensual (sensual is expanded to erotic in the hadiths) and luxurious life in paradise with beautiful women. (44:51-56; 52:17-29) For example, chapter 44, verse 54 promises: "So; and We shall join them to Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes." Some disrupted homicide/suicide bombers have freely admitted that it was the Koranic and hadith promises of virgins in paradise that motivated them.

    Based on the foregoing, one can begin to understand why Islamic homicide/suicide bombers are willing to sacrifice themselves. In a culture wherein women and men are largely kept separated, it is not difficult to see how young men might become highly motivated by the foregoing teachings. Muhammad Atta, for example, had a wedding suit packed in one of his carry-on suitcases when he boarded what he knew to be a suicide flight on 9/11 as he believed he would be marrying virgins in paradise. We know this because the carry-on bag was not allowed on the plane and it was subsequently searched by the FBI.

    In the hadith, Mohammed also urges Muslims to practice Jihad. (See, Bukhari 4:196, 5:716, 1:35, 1:25)

    It is the foregoing Koranic verses and others, as well as numerous hadith based on Muhammad's life and words, that have led to the Islamic world view that divides humanity into two opposing spheres: Dar al-Islam, House of Islam where Islam rules and Dar el Harb, the House of War against non-Muslims. This world view mandates that war will continue between these competing ideologies until the supremacy of Islam is fully established everywhere. Jihad in Islamic theology is one of the instruments to bring about the end of Dar el Harb. That is why we so often hear terrorist leaders stating their goals as follows:

    1. Overthrow the secular or partial secular rulers of Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Pakistan, and Egypt. Note that Saudi Arabia and Iran are currently the only two nations that have imposed full Sharia Law. Saudi Arabia is nonetheless targeted because its rulers (Saudi Royal Family) are not religious leaders and even though their support of fundamentalist Islam is nearly as complete as the Caliphs of old, that is not considered good enough.

    2. Exterminate Israel. (Drive the Infidels into the sea is a popular way to express the sentiment in the Islamic World.)

    3. Force the rest of the world to submit to Islam.

    The foregoing goals were articulated by the late Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran, a Shiite religious leader. In 1998, Osama Bin Laden, a Sunni Muslim, stated the same goals. (Sheikh Usamah bin-Muhammad bin-Laden, "Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans," published by Al-Quds al-Arabi on February 23, 1998. (Posted on the Internet at www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm.)

    Osama Bin Laden also defiantly declared that the United States is the prime obstacle to the achievement of the foregoing goals and called on Muslims everywhere "to comply with Allah's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it."

    As can be seen, both Shiite and Sunni Islam have both incited some of the exact same beliefs and goals in Islamic fundamentalists. The reason is the Islamic doctrine set forth above.

    So far I have made my case for the proposition that Islam is not a religion of peace by citing Islam's own doctrines and showing how even opposing branches of fundamentalist Islam adhere to and accept the Koran as God's rules for living. However, a more secular analysis supports the same conclusion. Consider the following:

    1. Polls indicate that high percentages of our supposed allies in Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia support Osama Bin Laden and his terrorists acts. (The higher percentages are in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.) How could a religion of peace engender such support for random acts of murder and violence in two of the more Islamic fundamentalist countries of the World?

    2. Post 9/11/2001, the name, "Osama" has attained a favored name status for newborn male children in several Muslim nations. Why would a religion of peace allow its adherents to honor such a man?

    3. Numerous Mosques in Islamic states purportedly exhibit the photo of Bin Laden as a hero of the faith. While I was watching news about the Tsunami relief efforts, I personally saw Osama Bin Laden tee-shirts worn by children.

    4. In many nations where Muslims constitute a large percentage of the population, the Islamic faithful gather in the streets yelling "Allah Akbar" (Allah is greater or God is great) every time America or Israel suffers from an Islamic terrorist attack. These street demonstration occur in the West Bank and Gaza strip in Israel, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, Sudan, Nigeria, and the Philippines. In America, some Muslims have been observed doing the same. One translator of Iranian descent working at the FBI reported that even FBI translators celebrated 9/11 at work.

    5. Some Muslim spokesmen who in public spoke against 9/11 were recorded in private supporting terrorism or terrorist acts. Some so-called moderate leaders say the right buzzwords in English and then express their true sentiments in Arabic when they think they will not be exposed. Yasser Arafat was famous for such deceptive tactics.

    6. Polls in England show that at least half of the Muslim population would like to impose Sharia Law as the law of the land.

    7. The leaders of the terrorists and or their religious advisers seem to invariably come from backgrounds wherein intense Islamic study was undertaken.

    Islamic history also offers support and inspiration to Islamic terrorists. Muhammad, the revered Prophet of Islam and the man whose words and deeds are believed by Muslims to have been inspired by God and his life held out as the perfect example for living, raided caravans for booty and even asserted that one fifth of the booty was his with the rest to be shared by his warriors. (8:41) Chapter 8 of the Koran is actually titled "Booty."

    Muhammad attacked Arabian tribes who would not voluntarily submit to Islam and slaughtered hundreds of captives. After one Jewish tribe surrendered and sought Muhammad's mercy, he ordered 600-900 of the men beheaded and the women and children sold into slavery except for the women he and his followers took as "wives." Muhammad's aggressive tactics continued after any significant resistance to Islam was eradicated on the Arabian peninsula. Jewish tribes fared the worst which, along with very negative verses about Jews in the Koran, is the genesis of the seemingly ubiquitous, extreme anti-Semitic Muslim view toward Jews.

    Muhammad had critics and rivals alike assassinated. In fact, the word assassin derives from a Muslim sect that specialized in terrorizing the Muslim elite of their day with politically motivated assassinations. The assassins were renowned for their willingness to sacrifice their life for their cause. Sound familiar?

    Muhammad ordered the execution of some people for nothing more than satirical statements about him. There are currently web sites that expressly advocate the killing of anyone that criticizes Muhammad. Is it really surprising then that a devout Muslim named Mohammad brutally murdered Theo van Gogh in 2004? (Theo van Gogh was a controversial and inappropriately cruel and harsh critic of Islam and Muslims who was killed by Mohammad Bouyeri who then left a five page note that threatened Western governments and Jews.)

    The hadiths also show that Muhammad accepted one man's story that he murdered his own wife and gestating child because the man alleged his wife had blasphemed Muhammad. Muhammad ordered that the man should not be punished. (This incident was recorded in a hadith.)

    Before he died, Muhammad made preparations to attack Syria. After his death, his followers, some of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs (Caliphs means successors to Muhammad) as Islam calls them, spent ten years fighting to force all of the Arabian tribes to covert to Islam or to return to Islam when they tried to abandon Islam after Muhammad's death. Muhammad's followers eventually conquered the Holy Land and other parts of the Byzantine Empire (last of the Romans) and what remained of the Persian empire. Muslims eventually conquered Spain, parts of France, Constantinople, and, with some setbacks along the way such as the loss of Spain, continued to conquer and subdue until the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.

    One of Muhammad's generals, Walid Khalid, who also served some of the successors to Muhammad known as the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, was known as the Sword of Allah and was renowned for his military prowess and his brutality. Even the highly regarded Saladin slaughtered captives at Hatin (the battle that preceded the Muslim re-conquest of Jerusalem) and motivated his warriors by having the Koranic verses set forth above read to them. The exploits of Saladin, Muhammad, and Walid Khalid are well known to Islamic fundamentalists and they draw inspiration from their recorded actions. Osama Bin Laden seems assured of eventually taking his place amongst these revered Islamic icons.

    Critics of my position will argue that there are many verses in the Koran that advocate peace and tolerance. They are correct. However, the Koran was not presented as a complete book by Muhammad and to understand it one must realize how the verses came into existence.

    Koran literally means "recite" or "recitation" in Arabic. Muhammad alleged that the angel Gabriel told him to recite. At no time did Muhammad say that he was ordered to write nor was he ever compelled to write down and collect his alleged revelations. He never presented his complete revelations at one time as a complete rule book for living. Rather, the Koran was created approximately twenty years after Muhammad's death. Arab society in the seventh century was an oral society with little writing. Most of the people, and perhaps Muhammad himself, were illiterate. Hence, Muhammad verbally revealed verses sporadically over a period of at least twenty-two years. The verses were revealed based on the circumstances of the time and what Muhammad hoped to accomplish.

    The most famous peace verse in the Koran which states, "[t]here is no compulsion in religion," was revealed while Muhammad was in Mecca still trying to convince the people of Mecca (mostly polytheists) to voluntarily convert to Islam. He had very little success and he and his followers were eventually driven out of Mecca to Medina. When Muhammad came to power in Medina, his entire approach changed from trying to persuade others to convert solely by voluntary means and he began to reveal the harsher verses of the Koran. These subsequent verses were meant to replace early verses. "When We substitute one revelation for another, - and God knows best what He reveals (in stages), - they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not." (Koran, chapter 16, verse 101) "None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God Hath power over all things?" (Koran, chapter 2, verse 106)

    It follows that what was happening within the Muslim community at the time verses were revealed plays an important role in interpreting the Koran. Sadly, that history, as briefly set forth above, overwhelmingly supports the fundamentalists' interpretation and leads to violence as terrorists mimic the life of Muhammad that they are taught was inspired by God and which constitutes the perfect example for living. The Sword Verses were some of the last verses revealed by Muhammad and it is difficult to convince fundamentalists that earlier verses revealed in Mecca before the Hijrah (transfer to Medina) should guide their behavior.

    Regarding the interpretation of the Koran, to put the entire matter into perspective by way of analogy, imagine a student telling a teacher that, following a lecture, an order to take a test was ambiguous because earlier in the day the teacher had said to pay attention to the lecture. We would all agree such a position is strained at best. Those who advocate that the harsher verses of the Koran are unclear because of the earlier peaceful commands are simply ignoring how the Koran came into existence and their position is equally strained.

    Based on the foregoing, notwithstanding the diversity of belief in the Islamic World, including those like Dr. Aziz that advocate a peaceful interpretation of Islam, there will always be fundamentalists who adhere to the "true faith" and advocate violence until the whole World submits to Islam. Can we then honestly claim that Islam is universally a religion of peace?

    With so much Islamic terrorism in the World, and an entire nation such as Saudi Arabia with at least nineteen million inhabitants in which militant Wahabbi Islam (A Sunni branch of Islam) is the law of the land, does it not seem logical that something within the Islamic religion is inspiring terrorism? Fifteen of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals wherein fundamentalist Islam is the only religion allowed. If the militancy and terror generated by Wahabbi Islam is an aberration with no relation to true Islam, then why is it that Shiite Islamic theology in Iran has produced the same militant type of Islam and terrorism even though the two sects are quite hostile to one another? Why were the Taliban so intolerant and militant even though their very name derives from them being students of Islamic theology? Why is there so much Islamic militancy in Pakistan, Sudan, Nigeria, Lebanon, and the Aceh province in Indonesia? Why did the Armenian genocide occur in which nearly one and a half million Christians were slaughtered or deported in 1915 under Turkish Ottoman rule (now Turkey) in the 20th century? How can Islamic militancy in such diverse parts of the World be explained if it does not, at least in part, derive from Islamic doctrine?

    It seems, at least to me, simply too plain for argument that Islam promotes violence and cannot be said to be a religion of peace given that it inspires so much terror and intolerance. That Islamic terrorism threatens us daily. As technology and the capacity for terrorists to cause mass destruction increases, the stakes are going up and we must understand what the true root of the problem is if we are to have the best possible chance of defending ourselves.

    Many diverse individuals have reached similar conclusions. Salman Rushdie, a renowned liberal, wrote the following in 2001:

    "‘This isn't about Islam.' The world's leaders have been repeating this mantra for weeks, partly in the virtuous hope of deterring reprisal attacks on innocent Muslims living in the West, partly because if the United States is to maintain its coalition against terror it can't afford to suggest that Islam and terrorism are in any way related.

    The trouble with this necessary disclaimer is that it isn't true. If this isn't about Islam, why the worldwide Muslim demonstrations in support of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda? Why did those 10,000 men armed with swords and axes mass on the Pakistan-Afghanistan frontier, answering some mullah's call to jihad? Why are the war's first British casualties three Muslim men who died fighting on the Taliban side?

    Why the routine anti-Semitism of the much-repeated Islamic slander that "the Jews" arranged the hits on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, with the oddly self-deprecating explanation offered by the Taliban leadership, among others, that Muslims could not have the technological know-how or organizational sophistication to pull off such a feat? Why does Imran Khan, the Pakistani ex-sports star turned politician, demand to be shown the evidence of Al Qaeda's guilt while apparently turning a deaf ear to the self-incriminating statements of Al Qaeda's own spokesmen (there will be a rain of aircraft from the skies, Muslims in the West are warned not to live or work in tall buildings)? Why all the talk about American military infidels desecrating the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia if some sort of definition of what is sacred is not at the heart of the present discontents?

    Of course this is ‘about Islam.' The question is, what exactly does that mean? . . ."

    Through the centuries, other independent thinkers have arrived at the same conclusion that Islam is not a religion of peace. Alexis de Tocqueville, a nineteenth century political thinker, commentator and historian, purportedly said:

    "I studied the Kuran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion more to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself."
    The following quote from the sixth American President, John Quincy Adams, (1825-1829) is revealing. Cited in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) by Robert Spencer, page 83:

    "In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab . . . [i.e., Muhammad], [.....] Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST.- TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE.... Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant ... While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men."
    The foregoing is just a small sampling of the people who have all reached the same inescapable conclusion that Islam is not a religion of peace. So many educated people from highly diverse backgrounds who formed their opinions about Islam centuries apart have come to the same conclusion for a reason. The reason is that Islam is simply not a religion of peace and we must have the courage to say so and deal with the problem in the most effective, humanitarian way that we can.

    In a World where Iran, a universally acknowledged terrorist state under Sharia Law, is on the cusp of developing nuclear weapons and has vowed to share those nuclear weapons with the Islamic World, we must ponder, as Mr. Rushdie did: "Of course this is ‘about Islam.' The question is, what exactly does that mean?"

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    nicholas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Monday, January 2nd, 2012 @ 12:04 AM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    nebraska
    Gender
    Age
    47
    Family
    Single
    Occupation
    Trickster God
    Politics
    Pro-Freedom, Pro-Skadi
    Religion
    seeker
    Posts
    606
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Re: Islam: A religion of peace?

    Clearly it is no more a religion of peace than is judaism and christianity.

    Anyone know any accurate historical sources on Islam warlike past?

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    nätdeutsch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 05:03 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Gender
    Family
    Loner
    Occupation
    stargazer
    Politics
    Capitalism seems to work....
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    1,412
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Re: AW: Re: Islam: A religion of peace?

    the difference between islam and christianity is that the founder of christianity preached pacifism, while the founder of islam preached militarism.

    there are violent instances of christianity, and these are all wrong. they have been misguided. the heart of christianity is peaceful, the heart of islam is not.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Gundahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Online
    Wednesday, March 23rd, 2011 @ 05:36 PM
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Gender
    Age
    39
    Family
    Single, looking
    Religion
    Germanic Heathenry
    Posts
    202
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    8 Posts

    AW: Re: Islam: A religion of peace?

    What's interesting is, that Islam was founded by war, as well as the landtaking of the ancient Jewish tribes was done through war and genocide. Christianity contrary was from the start on a philosophy of peace. It was just later during late ancient times and the middle-age transformed into a religion of war. Otherwise it would haver never been able to get a foothold among the warlike Celtic or Germanic societies. I am no defender of Christianity because I am heathen, but thats a significant difference nevertheless.

    Muhammad, the prophet and most important person in Islam, was most of his time a merchant, and later a general. He fought against the Meccans, raided their caravans and at the end occupied their city. So fighting with physical violence was never seen as an evil act in Islam, quite contrary. As I said before, Islam was founded on war. Without war, there would have never been an islamic religion. Starting from the occupation of Mecca we can move on in history and see how the Muslims overran Northern Africa and the Middle East. The next step was the invasion in Spain.

    In the year 711 AC, the Moors conquered Spain, which was under the christian rule of the Vizigoths. Under their Berber leader Tariq ibn-Ziyad, they landed at Gibraltar on April 30 and brought most of the Iberian Peninsula -except for small areas in the northwest and largely Basque - under Islamic rule in an eight-year campaign. They attempted to move northeast across the Pyrenees Mountains toward France, but were defeated by the Frankish Christian Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours in 732 AC. The Moors ruled in North Africa, parts of Spain and Portugal regions in the Pyrenees for seven hundred years.

    On the other side of europe in the east, the Muslims were hindered by the powerful city of Constantinople(Byzantium) for centuries. The city was protected by very high walls, which were practically insuperable with middle-age or ancient warfare. But with the invention of blackpowder that allowed cannon artillery the Ottomans managed to break the walls by cannon fire. The walls were high but not very thick. They were designed to hold of an assault with storm ladders and melee infantry, but not to resist cannon fire. So on Tuesday, May 29, 1453 the Ottoman Empire's forces led by Sultan Mehmed II defeated the last defenders of Constantinople and so the Eastern Roman Empire, which had lasted over a thousand years, had come to an end.

    Thus the eastern gate to Europe was knocked open by the muslim invaders, quickly they overrun Eastern Europe, the Balkans. Many Slavic tribes tried to resist against the muslims, but they had no chance.

    1529 they stood at south-eastern gate of the Holy Roman Empire, the Austrian City Vienna. This was the so called first siege of Vienna. The Ottomans besieged them hard, broke through the walls several times, but they couldnt defeat the defenders. After several weeks of siegeing and attacking the Ottomans had to retreat.

    On July the 14th, 1683 the second siege of Vienna began by the Ottoman army commanded by Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha. They besieged the city for two months and then they attacked. This time Vienna would have fallen to the Muslims if not a relief force from Poland and Lithuania led by King Jan III Sobieski had come in time to help the defenders and bring defeat to the Ottomans the second time in front of the walls of Vienna.

    After these risky battles and sieges, both at Vienna and Tours and Portiers, the Christians managed to push back the Muslims and reduce their influence on the european continent. In Spain the reconquista took place and threw the muslims out of Al-Andalus. At the Balkan the military campaings of the Holy Roman Empire managed to hold them off from entering central europe.

    I have deliberately not mentioned the occupation of christan Jerusalem and the Crusader States by Saladin, because they were formed through christian agression.

    So you can see that Islam is everything else than a religion of peace. It was a religion of war, it is a religion of war and it ever will be a religion of war. Today we must not be stupid and make mistakes that our ancestors, who defended our lands against the muslims, havent done. They never underestimated the muslims and they never thought that they were peaceful, and they never thought that they could live peacefully side by side with them.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Friday, March 25th, 2016 @ 07:28 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt Australian
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordic
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Victoria Victoria
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Guerilla Philosopher
    Politics
    Aristotelian Nationalist
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Posts
    1,820
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    15 Posts

    Re: AW: Re: Islam: A religion of peace?

    Islam is labelled a 'religion of peace' by the Western elites simply because if the truth was widely known, Huntington's 'Clash of Civilizations' thesis would not only be proved, but taken to another level. Even the liberal degenerates recognise that one cannot tolerate the intolerant - hence why they choose to have fascists and NS locked up. Tolerance is not nor has it even been a theoretically solid stance upon which to build a polity - it is empty. The 'solid' concepts at the core of liberalism - freedom of speech, the press, property and so on - are diametrically opposed to Islam. The 'peace' of Islam is the peace between the Muslim and Allah, not between Muslim and infidel. That would be supreme capitulation - the faithful must reign supreme, Dar Al-Harb must be crushed by dar Al-Islam. If there is going to be a permanent peace, it will be in the form of 'create a desert and call it peace' - ultimately, either the Muslim world is the only civilization left, or Mecca is reduced to ruins and Islam dissolves as a religion. Any kind of 'cease-fire' is necessarily temporary. For that equation to enter the minds of every Westerner would be to get the ball rolling and initiate total war, something which the Western elites - for Middle Eastern and Caucasian oil and natural gas - aren't willing to let happen on such a grand scale.

    Not to mention they're deluded by their own lies and misconceptions.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    nätdeutsch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 05:03 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Gender
    Family
    Loner
    Occupation
    stargazer
    Politics
    Capitalism seems to work....
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    1,412
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Re: AW: Re: Islam: A religion of peace?

    peace in islam means that theyve conquered all the infidels.....
    not very peaceful for those they hate, is it?

  8. #8
    Account Inactive

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    Monday, November 6th, 2006 @ 05:52 PM
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Occupation
    hospital/emergency room
    Religion
    Shiah Muslim
    Posts
    144
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Islam: A religion of peace?

    Holy crap people LOL, i mean islam would be a peacefull religion these days if people would just leave it in peace LOL

    Look who is making a difference fighting against zionism!

    Nobody else is fighting the zionists and their occupying ways!

    and im not talking about osama bin fricken laden, he probably works for america and so does his sunni alqueda.

    im not spreading islam , but i just want to you people to know, that its islam (actually shiah islamic people) who are against the zionist jews and making a DIFFERENCE and some kind of EFFECT.

    Im not saying you people should help or agree with me, but in my oppinion i think white europeans should form their own groups and start resisting their corrupt jewish government in europe. Do something besides sitand type on your computer and complain about it and show negroes on videos beating the crap out of swedish people, form your groups and fricken smash them and do whatever you can drive them out.

    lol actually this whole reply makes islam a warlike religion But its just my own oppinion not a religious one.

    im seriously still mad at those negroes for beating up those swedish guys, i couldnt even sleep that night i was so angry.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Friday, March 25th, 2016 @ 07:28 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt Australian
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordic
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Victoria Victoria
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Guerilla Philosopher
    Politics
    Aristotelian Nationalist
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Posts
    1,820
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    15 Posts

    Re: Islam: A religion of peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedarman View Post
    Holy crap people LOL, i mean islam would be a peacefull religion these days if people would just leave it in peace LOL

    Look who is making a difference fighting against zionism!

    Nobody else is fighting the zionists and their occupying ways!

    and im not talking about osama bin fricken laden, he probably works for america and so does his sunni alqueda.

    im not spreading islam , but i just want to you people to know, that its islam (actually shiah islamic people) who are against the zionist jews and making a DIFFERENCE and some kind of EFFECT.

    Im not saying you people should help or agree with me, but in my oppinion i think white europeans should form their own groups and start resisting their corrupt jewish government in europe. Do something besides sitand type on your computer and complain about it and show negroes on videos beating the crap out of swedish people, form your groups and fricken smash them and do whatever you can drive them out.

    lol actually this whole reply makes islam a warlike religion But its just my own oppinion not a religious one.

    im seriously still mad at those negroes for beating up those swedish guys, i couldnt even sleep that night i was so angry.
    While it's understandable you hold your position given you're a Shi'ite, you are absolutely wrong. You see, Zionism proper only really causes problems for ragheads, though it is financially backed by the West. Most of the destructive influence of Jews would have no effect whatsoever without the backing of the white capitalist elites. You see, Zionists - real Israeli ones, that is - well, they're actually doing some relative good for the West, in spite of the U.S.S. Liberty. Because A) would you rather the Jews were in Europe?, B) they're surrounded by Muslims, which makes them overly paranoid and militarised, C) they've got more balls than Europe does, right now, when it comes to grinding armies of Muslims down and would most assuredly do something severe if a Muslim country aquired nuclear weapons - and if Israel wasn't in the way, they'd definetly be pointed at Europe, guarenteed.


    I mean, shit, Israel would've authorised live ammunition to use on the rioters if the riots in France had've happened across Israel.

    Anyone who thinks Muslims hate the West because of Israel is a fool. Israel didn't exist when the Turks hit Constantinople, it didn't exist when the Ottomans raped the Balkans, it didn't exist when the Arabs invaded Spain.

    Delenda est Mecca.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    nätdeutsch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 05:03 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Gender
    Family
    Loner
    Occupation
    stargazer
    Politics
    Capitalism seems to work....
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    1,412
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Re: Islam: A religion of peace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedarman View Post
    Holy crap people LOL, i mean islam would be a peacefull religion these days if people would just leave it in peace LOL

    Look who is making a difference fighting against zionism!

    Nobody else is fighting the zionists and their occupying ways!

    and im not talking about osama bin fricken laden, he probably works for america and so does his sunni alqueda.

    im not spreading islam , but i just want to you people to know, that its islam (actually shiah islamic people) who are against the zionist jews and making a DIFFERENCE and some kind of EFFECT.

    Im not saying you people should help or agree with me, but in my oppinion i think white europeans should form their own groups and start resisting their corrupt jewish government in europe. Do something besides sitand type on your computer and complain about it and show negroes on videos beating the crap out of swedish people, form your groups and fricken smash them and do whatever you can drive them out.

    lol actually this whole reply makes islam a warlike religion But its just my own oppinion not a religious one.

    im seriously still mad at those negroes for beating up those swedish guys, i couldnt even sleep that night i was so angry.


    can you please use a few more smilies? you havent gotten your point across.

    islam is a religion of conquering, and muslims are committing the majority of crimes in europe. something like 85% of all rapists are muslims in italy.
    i say, how bout they "fix' the middle east before they screw europe and america and canada.

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. "No Religion" Tops Religion Question in Census
    By Sasa in forum Australia & New Zealand
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Wednesday, June 28th, 2017, 12:17 AM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: Monday, March 1st, 2010, 02:31 PM
  3. "Elite" Religion and "Folkloric" Religion
    By Blutwölfin in forum Middle Ages
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Monday, January 1st, 2007, 08:23 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •