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Thread: Libertarianism and its cousin individualism

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    Account Inactive friedrich braun's Avatar
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    Post Libertarianism and its cousin individualism

    What are your thoughts on libertarianism and its cousin individualism?

    I've come across this statement and I strongly disagree with its content, but I won't say why just yet -- I'll a few people comment and then I'll jump in.

    "I like the idea of being in control of my own life. I don't need regulations to tell me only to sell to whites, or to associate with whites, or to choose a white wife (I'm going to do that of my own free will), and the question remains why those who have every intention of throwing their own genes down the drain should be stopped - consider it a strange form of natural selection."

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    Sounds like a great way to limit the amount of 'good' genes to a small minority that, of course, eventually gets absorbed/destroyed. :O

    ...and the question remains why those who have every intention of throwing their own genes down the drain should be stopped - consider it a strange form of natural selection.
    Rationalizing this with natural selection is worthless... social opinion is subject to the influence of propaganda tactics.


    ~ Just because a guy has a gun to his head does'nt mean you should let him blow his brains out. ~

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    If someone is stupid/weak enough to throw their entire lineage away for some heavily propagandized fad like interracial or gay sex, it doesn't seem to be a great loss. That's why draconian racial laws are disgenic in the long run. The herd should be thinned out.

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    LadyGoethe gets the point. Under libetarianism those interested in white preservation would be free to promote our ideas to other whites. Any white who knows full well our entire racial-cultural situation and still decides to go breed with blacks or others isn't worth keeping in the pool. As I've said in another thread, the State wields total monopoly over media broadcasting - it can take away the ability to broadcast at any time it sees fit. Remove this power from the State and, combined with the absence of taxes, white run businesses could see fit to pump their money into white owned media by buying advertising space to bring together an ethno/racial-centric culture so whites would be less polite/tolerant about letting fellow whites in their communities sell land to racial foreigners when the crime and insurance rates would skyrocket.


    Rationalizing this with natural selection is worthless... social opinion is subject to the influence of propaganda tactics.
    There's nothing stopping propaganda tactics in a Capitalist society.

    ~ Just because a guy has a gun to his head does'nt mean you should let him blow his brains out. ~
    You going to use violence to stop him?
    Last edited by Jack; Wednesday, December 3rd, 2003 at 10:59 AM.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    I can understand where ladygoeth is coming from in her post, but elitism isn't desirable in this case, IMO. Each person being pulled into degeneracy makes it that much harder to sway public opinion back in your favor.

    Plus you can’t necessarily blame *some* of these people either; they've had garbage pumped into their heads since early childhood.

    The problem here with alienating the stupid and weak willed is that they make up the majority of the population.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aloysha
    Any white who knows full well our entire racial-cultural situation and still decides to go breed with blacks or others isn't worth keeping in the pool
    Well what would you figure are the percentage of Whites that are fully aware of the situation? The point is to catch people before they go and mess things up for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aloysha
    White run businesses could see fit to pump their money into white owned media by buying advertising space to bring together an ethno/racial-centric culture so whites would be less polite/tolerant about letting fellow whites in their communities sell land to racial foreigners when the crime and insurance rates would skyrocket.
    Well for clarification... in what scale are you thinking in this case. Local community based advertisement like on cable networks or on the national/state broadcasting levels?

    In any case I would think that a company broadcasting nationally could care less about any ethno/racial-centric issues aside from those that sway sales from their target demographic. Ideals tend to go flying out the window when money is involved ;D

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    Aloysha is correct. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilmaterrori
    I can understand where ladygoeth is coming from in her post, but elitism isn't desirable in this case, IMO. Each person being pulled into degeneracy makes it that much harder to sway public opinion back in your favor.
    On the contrary, as the present system becomes more and more difficult to sustain, people will look for ethical (racialism) and political alternatives. I pose the political-economic alternative of anarcho-capitalism combined with personal racialism.

    Plus you can’t necessarily blame *some* of these people either; they've had garbage pumped into their heads since early childhood.
    Any man who is close minded enough to disregard reason deserves to be blamed. Negroes are widely known for being irrational creatures, I feel no sympathy for the hell they've put themselves in after driving Europeans from Africa.

    The problem here with alienating the stupid and weak willed is that they make up the majority of the population.
    I said nothing about alienating them, and neither did LadyGoethe33. What we are suggesting (LG33 may correct me if I am not speaking correctly on her behalf) is that we make what we know well known amongst the white population and let white people decide for themselves. What we know (racialists) is not impractical knowledge - as racial violence and white flight from California and other racially-mixed states testifies to. Racialism wakes them up, anarcho-capitalism gives them options.

    Well what would you figure are the percentage of Whites that are fully aware of the situation? The point is to catch people before they go and mess things up for themselves.
    They already are messing things up for themselves. The system is going to crash, things are going downhill. The question remains, what is to be done on tomorrows horizon? The reason there are only a minority of whites aware of the situation to the extent we are is because the State (controlled by Jews) has a total monopoly over the education and pumps in the vast majority of funds into 'private' Universities, and hence has a monopoly over what is to be taught there. Break those ties and we have options.

    Well for clarification... in what scale are you thinking in this case. Local community based advertisement like on cable networks or on the national/state broadcasting levels?
    Both.

    In any case I would think that a company broadcasting nationally could care less about any ethno/racial-centric issues aside from those that sway sales from their target demographic. Ideals tend to go flying out the window when money is involved ;D
    Indeed they do. Here's my reasoning: television stations make no money in and of themselves. They sell advertising space to companies, and sustain themselves from that. Those companies are generally based in cities, and they are businesses, they pay insurance. As we know from massive crime rates (both LG33 and myself can testify to that personally, plus there's effectively bulletproof statistics provided by the United States Government and explained in 'The Color of Crime' report released by the New Century Foundation), insurance is expensive when property in violent, crime prone areas is to be covered. Now, we know the connection between multiracial communities and violence. With a return to the gold standard (hence crushing the US Government's monopoly on determining money supplies and wielding a knife over the savings of millions of ordinary Americans), the economy will have a stable monetary basis, and with a removal on Government restrictions on private enterprise, we could put our cases forward to white owned businesses who would, in order to bring about a change of values (towards racialism, of course) in their communities and cut down on insurance costs, buy advertising space in white owned television stations on the condition that race-crimes were emphasised in news programs and pro-white (even subtly) movies and television series were broadcasted. Whites would wake up. Within Anarcho-Capitalism, each man is free to provide for his own means of security for himself and his property, and is free to serve his own justice in whatever means he sees fit against those who violate his property - in a nutshell, blacks riot (you think they'll love it, being cut off from welfare and sacked on grounds of total incompetence from jobs they've acquired via Affirmitive Action and other Government legislation?) and whites shoot pack on an unprecedented scale. Motivated by racialised free-association, justified by libetarian property rights.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    friedrich braun; "What are your thoughts on libertarianism and its cousin individualism? Comment on the following;
    "I like the idea of being in control of my own life. I don't need regulations to tell me only to sell to whites, or to associate with whites, or to choose a white wife (I'm going to do that of my own free will), and the question remains why those who have every intention of throwing their own genes down the drain should be stopped - consider it a strange form of natural selection."

    Moody Lawless replies;
    This is the glib-speak of selfish-multiculturalism.
    The selfish-gene/free-will libertarianism which thinly masks an acceptance of Internationalist Capitalism and Multiracialism.

    Notice how the neocons, for example, respond to any criticism of their Jew-friendly 'war against terror' with, 'at least you are free to have that opinion in a liberal democracy'.
    Roughly translated:
    "Be grateful goy slave for the 'freedom' we Jews have given you!"

    This selfish-multiculturalism 'allows' every opinion [except for real NSDAP-type anti-Semitism] to have its own little gang - and thus they cancel each other out. It has its token 'racists' who live up to the Hollywood stereotype of the red-neck or the falsified neonazi - why, they're all a part of the Melting Pot!

    This selfish-multiculturalism thinks it fine if some white women want to "throw their own genes down the drain" by going with Blacks or Jews. It pretends that this form of racial-crime is merely "natural selection", thus perverting Darwinism to multiracial ends.

    But such an amoral attitude is simply selfish-multiculturalism, dressed up as 'libertarianism' and so forth.
    It completely evades Racial Responsibility, and supports the present Judaic status quo.

    This Lie must be stopped; stopped by a political movement based on Racial Preservation and Responsibility.
    Members of this movement will be INSTINCTIVELY appalled at the sight of whites "throwing their genes down the drain", and punish them as race traitors, accordingly.
    Likewise, they will encourage - within a Racial Nation - the responsbilities of good breeding. They will demand that a State be strong enough to eject all aliens from the ancestral lands.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Libertarians and Race

    Libertarians and Race
    by Sean Haugh

    Libertarians have a problem with racism. No, not that problem, thank God. It's actually a much better problem. After some thought, I'm beginning to wonder just whose problem it is, anyway.

    Our racism problem is simply that we don't understand it. It doesn't fit in with our paradigm. Sure, we can develop an intellectual understanding of racism, if we must, but we have a very hard time really feeling it, unless we already brought that experience with us to the party.

    This puts us at a disadvantage in public debate. Those who innately perceive racism in our society are looking for something from us that we aren't prepared to provide. And those statist leaders who understand racism can manipulate it to their own advantage, with deft and calculated linguistic moves that leave the average Libertarian bewildered.

    Libertarianism is much more than a political party with its own set of issues and perspectives. What makes us different is that we also have a principle. That principle is kept front and center at all times, and informs everything we say and do.

    There are a number of ways to express that core principle. The first thing we say as Libertarians is that we do not believe in using the initiation of force to achieve social or political goals. Avoid this only, and you can do whatever else you want with your life.

    You think about that for awhile, and you begin to realize that this simple principle has very far reaching consequences. A lot of people are attracted to the Libertarian Party because they like one or more of issues or perspectives. Over time, as people contemplate the principle and put it into practice, their Libertarianism grows beyond a simple political outlook. It becomes a lifestyle.

    The philosophy is insidious. People who choose Libertarianism, for whatever reason, eventually find that they not only think it in their minds, they start living it in their hearts. This may not even be a conscious choice. It just naturally happens.

    Racism simply does not compute for us because Libertarianism focuses on the individual. We spend very little time thinking about the collective, any collective. On the other hand, racism is necessarily a collectivist philosophy. Since we are so wrapped up in the rights and responsibilities of the individual, we usually fail to take any information into account that would help explain racism to us.

    As we gain experience with living Libertarianism as a lifestyle, we find that being racist in any way is nearly impossible. We have written it entirely out of our conscious thought. When racist stuff happens, we get that puzzled look, like, why would anybody want to do or say that?

    Being a philosophy of the individual, Libertarianism is necessarily a philosophy of hope and respect. We wouldn't believe so ardently in the rights of all people to live their lives as they see fit if we didn't implicitly assume that most everyone is capable of exercising the responsibilities that go along with them.

    Taken to its extreme, Libertarianism is a joyful, people-centered idea. We want Liberty, not only for ourselves, but for everyone. We judge people by their own personal self-government. And when we see someone, anyone, reap the fruits of Liberty, it makes us feel all warm inside.

    We find we only see people as individuals trying to live their own lives. All the externals of race, gender, religion, lifestyle choice, and so on, silently slip into nothingness. When taken to heart, our philosophy leads us to tolerate everyone's personal choices. To paraphrase Jefferson, if it doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg, hey, you can do what you want. Even if I wouldn't want it for myself, if it makes you happy, then I'm happy for you.

    When we do notice those externals, it is almost always with appreciation. When that which is different stops being threatening, it can become quite interesting. Libertarians celebrate diversity the best way we know how, not by pointing to it and idolizing it, but simply by gladly accepting it as a sign that freedom is working.

    Whether or not we have heard the famous "I have a dream" speech of Martin Luther King, we Libertarians are already obliviously living in the colorblind society. Or at least we think we are. And that can be annoying to those of us who aren't.

    Yes, it is true that some individual Libertarians are quite racist. I received ample proof of that in some of the responses to my recent article on open immigration. But when these Libertarians display their racist attitudes, the gut reaction of those who live the Libertarian lifestyle is amusing and instructive. Our first thought is invariably that this person must have an incomplete or defective understanding of the philosophy.

    My friends, racism is real stuff. Plenty of it still occurs in this allegedly enlightened day and age. Yes, it used to be much worse, and we can all be grateful for the great social progress we have seen in our lifetimes. I know I am.

    But if we are to reach out effectively beyond our own kind - and let's face it, the Libertarian Party is still overwhelmingly white - we really do need to take the time to see and understand the racism that persists in our culture. We need to re-learn how to relate to the problem from the perspective of those who are still suffering from its effects.

    We are left at a disadvantage, since those living the Libertarian lifestyle can never take racism back into their hearts. We can only develop an intellectual understanding, a cultivated sympathy. If it weren't for our burning desire to see justice done always, we might not even be able to accomplish that.

    But, I have to ask, is this such a bad thing, really?

    The colorblind society is a beautiful, if ideal, goal. Almost everybody wants it, or at least they would say they do. We are closer to it than we have ever been, but we still have a long way to go to really live there.

    So how do we get to that promised land from here? I'll tell you this, we won't get any closer to Liberty, or the colorblind society, or any other desired social state just by talking about it. We have to create it, we have to make it real. We have to live it now, as best we can, not waiting for permission or the proper conditions to proceed.

    We need living examples of just how the colorblind society would work. And here we are, the Libertarians, busy doing exactly that.

    The only way any major social change happens is when a significant number of people just start acting like it already has taken place. Many who are stuck in the current state of affairs may find our attitude naive or even foolish. Well, if I'm going to be a fool, I'd rather be a fool for something good.

    If you really want to live in the colorblind society, join the Libertarian Party. We don't see it as some pie in the sky ideal. In fact, we can take you there right now, just as soon as you're ready to go.

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    Account Inactive friedrich braun's Avatar
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    I think I'm going to puke now.

    This is the type of race nihilism and surreal thinking completely disconnected with any sense of reality that typifies Libertarianism.

    Anyway, I'm going to write a little piece explaining why Libertarianism is not only wrong, but also a dangerous ideology for any type of racial preservation.

    Quote Originally Posted by volksdeutsche
    Libertarians and Race
    by Sean Haugh

    Libertarians have a problem with racism. No, not that problem, thank God. It's actually a much better problem. After some thought, I'm beginning to wonder just whose problem it is, anyway.

    Our racism problem is simply that we don't understand it. It doesn't fit in with our paradigm. Sure, we can develop an intellectual understanding of racism, if we must, but we have a very hard time really feeling it, unless we already brought that experience with us to the party.

    This puts us at a disadvantage in public debate. Those who innately perceive racism in our society are looking for something from us that we aren't prepared to provide. And those statist leaders who understand racism can manipulate it to their own advantage, with deft and calculated linguistic moves that leave the average Libertarian bewildered.

    Libertarianism is much more than a political party with its own set of issues and perspectives. What makes us different is that we also have a principle. That principle is kept front and center at all times, and informs everything we say and do.

    There are a number of ways to express that core principle. The first thing we say as Libertarians is that we do not believe in using the initiation of force to achieve social or political goals. Avoid this only, and you can do whatever else you want with your life.

    You think about that for awhile, and you begin to realize that this simple principle has very far reaching consequences. A lot of people are attracted to the Libertarian Party because they like one or more of issues or perspectives. Over time, as people contemplate the principle and put it into practice, their Libertarianism grows beyond a simple political outlook. It becomes a lifestyle.

    The philosophy is insidious. People who choose Libertarianism, for whatever reason, eventually find that they not only think it in their minds, they start living it in their hearts. This may not even be a conscious choice. It just naturally happens.

    Racism simply does not compute for us because Libertarianism focuses on the individual. We spend very little time thinking about the collective, any collective. On the other hand, racism is necessarily a collectivist philosophy. Since we are so wrapped up in the rights and responsibilities of the individual, we usually fail to take any information into account that would help explain racism to us.

    As we gain experience with living Libertarianism as a lifestyle, we find that being racist in any way is nearly impossible. We have written it entirely out of our conscious thought. When racist stuff happens, we get that puzzled look, like, why would anybody want to do or say that?

    Being a philosophy of the individual, Libertarianism is necessarily a philosophy of hope and respect. We wouldn't believe so ardently in the rights of all people to live their lives as they see fit if we didn't implicitly assume that most everyone is capable of exercising the responsibilities that go along with them.

    Taken to its extreme, Libertarianism is a joyful, people-centered idea. We want Liberty, not only for ourselves, but for everyone. We judge people by their own personal self-government. And when we see someone, anyone, reap the fruits of Liberty, it makes us feel all warm inside.

    We find we only see people as individuals trying to live their own lives. All the externals of race, gender, religion, lifestyle choice, and so on, silently slip into nothingness. When taken to heart, our philosophy leads us to tolerate everyone's personal choices. To paraphrase Jefferson, if it doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg, hey, you can do what you want. Even if I wouldn't want it for myself, if it makes you happy, then I'm happy for you.

    When we do notice those externals, it is almost always with appreciation. When that which is different stops being threatening, it can become quite interesting. Libertarians celebrate diversity the best way we know how, not by pointing to it and idolizing it, but simply by gladly accepting it as a sign that freedom is working.

    Whether or not we have heard the famous "I have a dream" speech of Martin Luther King, we Libertarians are already obliviously living in the colorblind society. Or at least we think we are. And that can be annoying to those of us who aren't.

    Yes, it is true that some individual Libertarians are quite racist. I received ample proof of that in some of the responses to my recent article on open immigration. But when these Libertarians display their racist attitudes, the gut reaction of those who live the Libertarian lifestyle is amusing and instructive. Our first thought is invariably that this person must have an incomplete or defective understanding of the philosophy.

    My friends, racism is real stuff. Plenty of it still occurs in this allegedly enlightened day and age. Yes, it used to be much worse, and we can all be grateful for the great social progress we have seen in our lifetimes. I know I am.

    But if we are to reach out effectively beyond our own kind - and let's face it, the Libertarian Party is still overwhelmingly white - we really do need to take the time to see and understand the racism that persists in our culture. We need to re-learn how to relate to the problem from the perspective of those who are still suffering from its effects.

    We are left at a disadvantage, since those living the Libertarian lifestyle can never take racism back into their hearts. We can only develop an intellectual understanding, a cultivated sympathy. If it weren't for our burning desire to see justice done always, we might not even be able to accomplish that.

    But, I have to ask, is this such a bad thing, really?

    The colorblind society is a beautiful, if ideal, goal. Almost everybody wants it, or at least they would say they do. We are closer to it than we have ever been, but we still have a long way to go to really live there.

    So how do we get to that promised land from here? I'll tell you this, we won't get any closer to Liberty, or the colorblind society, or any other desired social state just by talking about it. We have to create it, we have to make it real. We have to live it now, as best we can, not waiting for permission or the proper conditions to proceed.

    We need living examples of just how the colorblind society would work. And here we are, the Libertarians, busy doing exactly that.

    The only way any major social change happens is when a significant number of people just start acting like it already has taken place. Many who are stuck in the current state of affairs may find our attitude naive or even foolish. Well, if I'm going to be a fool, I'd rather be a fool for something good.

    If you really want to live in the colorblind society, join the Libertarian Party. We don't see it as some pie in the sky ideal. In fact, we can take you there right now, just as soon as you're ready to go.

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