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Thread: [split] Rome, Beowulf, and the Fall of Ancient Heathenry

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    Re: Patron Gods

    '
    Quote Originally Posted by Leofric
    This sort of thing is probably nothing like what any of our ancestors believed and practiced, and so has no place in a reconstructionistic neopaganism (though it might be acceptable in a more new-agey kind of neopaganism). But many of the neopagans who condemn that practice condemn divine patronage altogether because they feel it inherently leads the post-Christian in that direction.
    This is because the romans destroyed most traces of old religion such as germanic heathenry, and keltic, such as "wicca." Wiccans who say that they have knowledge passed down crack me up because the roman legions absolutely destroyed every trace of the old druids. I believe they would have done the same thing to most germanic religions had they come in contact. Read beowulf to see the first christian novel writen by germanics'
    Last edited by Leofric; Sunday, August 6th, 2006 at 04:12 AM. Reason: deleting oodles of '\r\n's and capitalizing to improve legibility

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    AW: Patron Gods

    Yea, but the roman legions did not go everywhere. They stood in the south of Britannia, at the Rhine and the Danube. But they didnt conquer northern Britannia, Ireland or land beyond the Rhine or Danube. The real threat came from the christian missionaries that destroyed everything what had to do with heathenry. Other missionaries did the contrary, they preserved it, altough not in a pure way. Examples are Snorri Sturluson with the Edda and Saxo Grammaticus with Gesta Danorum. Same with celtic paganism, that even influenced catholicism itself. Most saints are former celtic gods and goddesses and the deep veneration of mother Mary did become common in the catholic church because of the veneration of the celtic mother goddess.

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    Re: Patron Gods

    they wiped out all traces of keltic religions from what ive heard, according to several people who have studied the subject extensively

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    AW: Patron Gods

    Yea, and how can you say that they wiped out the Celts of Ireland, if no roman soldier ever set a foot on this island? And that they didnt conquer Germania is a fact. Quite contrary, Germanics conquered the Roman Empire. The only region where the celts and especially the druids were wiped out was Gaul. But neither Britannia, Ireland nor Germania were ever conquered by the Romans.

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    Re: Patron Gods

    did the irish celts keep any records?
    and i agree, the germanics did destroy rome...after they let them...
    germanics are pretty cool

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    Re: AW: Patron Gods

    Quote Originally Posted by Gundahar
    But neither Britannia, Ireland nor Germania were ever conquered by the Romans.
    True, that the Romans never tried to set forth an attack on Ireland and only conquered a strip of land in Western Germania as well as some southern regions. Though I would consider the Britons to have been conquered. Hadrian set up his wall on the Caledonian border, because the ancient Scots used overwhelming horde tactics, but enclosed in that wall were the Roman slaves of Britannia. The Britons were highly influenced by the Roman imperialism, while their neighbors were not until the Dark ages.
    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch
    did the irish celts keep any records?
    The Gaels had more of an oral tradition, and I'm quite sure the other Celtic people did the same, having to rely on their Roman conquerors to record the traditions along with butchering many of the names with Latin translations (Belenus, Ambiorix, etc.).
    Ná leathnaigh do bhrat muna féidir leat á chosaint.
    Don't unfurl your flag if you are unable to defend it.
    ~Old Irish Saying



    Truth in our hearts.
    Strength in our hands.
    Consistency in our tongues.
    ~Fianna motto

    Long, long ago, beyond the misty space
    Of twice a thousand years,
    In Erin old there lived a might race
    Taller than Roman spears.
    ~Standish O'Grady

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    Re: AW: Patron Gods

    Quote Originally Posted by Gundahar
    The only region where the celts and especially the druids were wiped out was Gaul. But neither Britannia, Ireland nor Germania were ever conquered by the Romans.
    Indeed. While Rome occupied parts of Britannia, they had increasing problems with independent tribes and the Druids the further north and west they went.

    did the irish celts keep any records?
    Well, the one significant piece of source material would be the Brehon Laws which were first written down in the seventh century, but were used earlier as part of Ireland's pre-Christian tradition. Mainly consulted until the arrival of the Normans, parts were still being used in regions of Ireland in the 1700's.
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
    H.P. Lovecraft

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    AW: Patron Gods

    'Well in Ireland there was never such a forced christianisation like in central europe. Heathens were not persecuted like in central europe or spain, heathenry even found a way into christianity as I have stated above already. I dont know if they kept written records like the Edda is for germanic heathenry, but we can say that some practices and traditions lived on until today, especially in non urban areas. Even in central Europe there are still celtic practices usual among the non urban population, mostly farmers, be it fertility rites or other. Most of these ancient practices have lost their original meaning and they do it because they have ever done it.'
    Last edited by Leofric; Sunday, August 6th, 2006 at 04:34 AM. Reason: deleting offtopic portion after a thread-split

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    Re: Patron Gods

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch
    Wiccans who say that they have knowledge passed down crack me up because the roman legions absolutely destroyed every trace of the old druids. I believe they would have done the same thing to most germanic religions had they come in contact. Read beowulf to see the first christian novel writen by germanics'
    Well, Wicca is anything but a truly Celtic reconstruction, so I agree with you there. However, Beowulf can't be considered the first Christian novel written by germanics as it was a heathen story edited later when written down by Christian converts to fit in better with the new religion.
    Last edited by Leofric; Sunday, August 6th, 2006 at 04:16 AM. Reason: more \r\n deletion
    "As for seriously-written books on dark, occult, and supernatural themes—in all truth they don’t amount to much. That is why it’s more fun to invent mythical works like the Necronomicon and Book of Eibon."
    H.P. Lovecraft

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    Re: Patron Gods

    i think beowulf is a christian novel. it has traces of the old religion, but it is considered still to be predominantly christian. ive talked to scholars about this, but everyones opinion differs

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