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Thread: Tocharians: The Mysterious Europoid Mummies of China

  1. #61
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    If you watch the video in part 3 the Chinese scientist says that they aren't very European genetically. I am assuming that National Geographic was expecting more European DNA and was too cheap to re-shoot the video. The mummy photos have been going around for years on "white race history" sites, so you know what their motive is.

    Tocharian A was spoken in the Tarim basin in the 9th cent CE. The mummies are 1800 BCE. So, there is a possibility that they are too early for Tocharian languages.

    Even if by chance they are descendants of a pre-Tocharian language culture, they still have Asian DNA. A, B, G2 and M aren't associated with the Celts. H is, but they only found one sequence that was H. These are more likely associated with Siberian Asian populations (A, B), Mongolians (Tuvan G2), and Indians (M*). Chärchän man, the Loulan beauty, and the young boy in the fancy shroud have East Asian DNA. The pot-smoking shaman had M* dna.

    You might want to ask why they aren't showing pictures of the many fully mongoloid mummies that were also buried there.

    Many European people are descendant of the Celts, however, the DNA from the Tarim basin mummies is not very numerous in Europe. That DNA is found in the regions surrounding the basin, which is probably where the people came from.

    If these mummies had been found in Eastern Europe instead of China, everyone would be saying that they were Mongol invaders, and denigrating the mummies with more Caucasoid features because of their East Asian DNA. The fact is that there are different racial types in China, especially in the North.

    Here are some people from the surrounding areas today


    She has an overbite, so she must be Caucasian?


    This guy is Caucasoid for an Asian, but do you think he is white?


    Mongolian mixed ancestry doesn't look like Chinese, but not white either.

    Siberian Asians don't look white either, and they are supposedly the closest to the mummies in terms of skull shape. Maybe they were more caucasian looking 3,000 years ago, but the DNA evidence is Asian, not Western European. This is a fascinating culture, and they might have spoken an Indo-European language, but they are genetically Asian, not European.

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    This is interesting, i heard about it awhile ago. But i don't think it's so unimaginable, east-euro/russian tribes walking to western china.

    No more perhaps then the sammi-type asians who are spread through north europe and russia towards the tundra.
    For thousands of years from father to son
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  3. #63
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    Thanks Angharad for your pics, that is a really good example of the mongoloid asians which are still clearly asian even though abit euro, scary lol.
    For thousands of years from father to son
    Ancient ways were carried on
    Ingrained in the flesh an ancestral soul
    Breathing life since days of old

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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanWithGod View Post
    This is interesting, i heard about it awhile ago. But i don't think it's so unimaginable, east-euro/russian tribes walking to western china.

    No more perhaps then the sammi-type asians who are spread through north europe and russia towards the tundra.
    Looks like any modern day Germanic after a night on the town!

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    These people weren't "white," they weren't European and we don't know if they were "Aryan" either, since we don't know if they spoke Indo-European language. What we can say for sure is they were very much predominantly Caucasoid and their material culture was similar to that of Celts. For "whites" to use these mummies to take credit for the whole of Chinese civilization is absurd. Leave claiming credit for other cultures to Afrocentrists and other loonies, it isn't as though we have little to be proud of in our own right.

    I thought it was common knowledge that Caucasoids have always lived in that area, and that this land East Turkistan (today called Xinjiang) is not really part of "China" and never has been. The people in this region have more in common racially and culturally with the peoples of Afghanistan than they do with the Han Chinese, they are Turkic & Iranic Central Asian Muslims. Even groups like the Uighur who have Mongoloid traits can never be mistaken for a Chinese (here's a young Uighur face, certainly he would cluster racially with the greater Mongoloid race, but clearly his features show he is not a Han Chinese).

    Some images of Caucasoid or heavily Caucasoid-influenced people who live in the area of the mummies today (the first man would not look unusual in Europe):

    These people are all ethnic Tajiks


    The Uighur people tend to be of a darker complexion/hair/eyes and more Mongoloid-influenced, but there is still much variation, it isn't at all strange to find Uighurs with blond hair, red hair, light brown hair, blue, green, light mixed eyes. This region is very diverse and mixed. Nomadic Kyrgyz people, especially more isolated communities in Xinjiang and Mongolia, often have light hair & eyes but sharply Mongoloid facial features, a very striking and unusual look.

    Ethnic Kyrgyz:



    So the Aryan influence did not die off completely in this region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aistulf View Post
    The DNA ‘results’ were cunningly used to ‘conclude’ that Tocharians were partly “Asians,” and of “mixed race,” and not “Europeans” in the end of the documentary.
    Tocharians weren't Europeans, and I see no reason to disagree with their conclusion that this was a mixed group. You disregard the scientific evidence because you feel it is politicized, yet your interest in these people isn't political in any way, that's why you post the videos on a white nationalist website and claim this subject is part of a political struggle. You don't believe allegedly politicized scientific evidence, so why should anyone believe your politicized version of this story?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aistulf View Post
    What isn't told, or stressed rather, that “Asian” — the type of marker found in the DNA — as in Indian wasn't necessarily non-European in the Indo-European — Aryan — sense.
    How do you know the Asian marker is South Asian? Do they ever reveal in this documentary what the marker was? Considering this is an American documentary I find it hard to believe they would use the term "Asian" to refer to Indians. I think it was understood that these people had an East Asian marker. If it turns out they weren't racially "pure" would you lose interest?

    Chinese civilization did not begin anywhere near the Tarim basin, the Huanghe (Yellow) River is the cradle of Chinese civilization. Claiming that Chinese owe their civilization to these obscure mostly Caucasoid people in the middle of the desert, in a part of the world that was not even close to being part of China until Qing Dynasty without any evidence that is the case, really does nothing for racialism at all.

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    Why do you assume they came from the West? based on the era and location it's most likely they were Slavs, Parthians, Scythians or Turkic.

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    Hemp Found in 2700 Year Old Tomb

    OTTAWA – Researchers say they have located the world's oldest stash of marijuana, in a tomb in a remote part of China.

    The cache of cannabis is about 2,700 years old and was clearly ``cultivated for psychoactive purposes," rather than as fibre for clothing or as food, says a research paper in the Journal of Experimental Botany.

    The 789 grams of dried cannabis was buried alongside a light-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian man, likely a shaman of the Gushi culture, near Turpan in northwestern China.

    http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/544684

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    So I assume they did a genetics test to discover this man was blue eyed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagelfar View Post
    So I assume they did a genetics test to discover this man was blue eyed?
    They likely would have been blood-shot too.

    Actually, this is an interesting story--the plant itself is native to central asia, was one of the earliest domesticated plants (for many reasons, of course) and the Scythians were known users of psychoactive marijuana and their home region also appears to have been central asia.


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    The two programmes previously mentioned in this thread are currently available on YouTube:

    PBS' NOVA: The Mysterious Mummies of China (1998)







    National Geographic: China's Mystery Mummies (2007)





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