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Thread: Columbus Used A Scandinavian Map

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    Account Inactive friedrich braun's Avatar
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    Post Columbus Used A Scandinavian Map

    By DIANE SCARPONI, Associated Press Writer


    NEW HAVEN, Conn. - The latest scientific analysis of a disputed map of the medieval New World supports the theory that it was made 50 years before Christopher Columbus set sail. The study examined the ink used to draw the Vinland Map, which belongs to Yale University. The map is valued at $20 million — if it is real and not a clever, modern-day forgery.

    A study last summer said the ink on the parchment map was made in the 20th century. But chemist Jacqueline Olin, a retired researcher with the Smithsonian Institution (news - web sites) in Washington, said Tuesday her analysis shows the ink was made in medieval times.

    "There is no evidence this is a forged titanium dioxide ink," said Olin, whose paper appears in the December issue of the journal Analytical Chemistry.

    The authenticity of the map has been debated since the 1960s, when philanthropist Paul Mellon gave it to Yale. The university has not taken a position on its authenticity.

    The map depicts the world, including the north Atlantic coast of North America. It includes text in medieval Latin and a legend that describes how "Leif Eiriksson," a Norseman, found the new land called Vinland around the year 1000.

    Scholars have dated the map to around 1440. Some scholars have speculated that Columbus could have used the map to find the New World in 1492.

    Last summer, Olin and other researchers announced that carbon-14 dating of the parchment showed it was made around 1434 — exactly the right time for the map to be genuine.

    However, researchers from University College in London examined the ink on the map and announced last summer that it cannot be more than 500 years old.

    Tests in the 1970s by Walter McCrone — who also had disputed the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin — found the ink contained anatase, a form of titanium dioxide that is common in inks made after 1920. Anatase is found in nature, but the crystals of anatase were too regular-shaped to have been natural, McCrone said.

    Olin's study looked at various minerals found in the ink, including aluminum, copper and zinc. All these minerals, she said, would have been byproducts of the medieval ink manufacturing process.

    Also, she said anatase also could have ended up in the ink because of the manufacturing process, and its crystal size and shape could have changed over time.

    Research is continuing into the Latin writing on the map.

    Source: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../vinland_map_3
    Last edited by friedrich braun; Sunday, December 21st, 2003 at 05:49 AM.

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    Post Re: Columbus Used a Scandavian Map

    David Hatcher Childress has published some astounding maps of the Iceland-Greenland-Northern Canada area which allegedly date before Columbus and were used by Columbus in his book: Pirates & The Lost Templar Fleet.

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    Post Re: Columbus Used a Scandavian Map

    The Norse settlers of Greenland left behind ruins of their steadings and even a cathedral with a stained glass window. The Black Death (which never made it to Iceland or Greenland) was responsible for the severing of ties with Europe- the last officially recorded trip to Greenland being in 1410. Also, the "ice age" of medieval times made the western Greenland colonies unprofitable and the western settlers moved back to Iceland or to the eastern Greenland settlement sometime after 1300 AD. The fashion of the clothes found in some burials indicates contact with Europe into the 16th century.

    Greenland produces no harvestable timber; the extent of growth is limited to stunted willow copses in protected gullies. In order to get timber for roof poles the Greenlanders had to sail to Markland, which is modern-day Labrador.

    A bishop of Greenland was still being appointed by the See of Rome as late as 1550.

    I think this example highlights the difference between the motivation of Nords and Meds in their colonization habits. Nords hungered for land; Meds hungered for gold. When Nords hunger for gold, it's a sure sign of decadence.


    http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/greenland/

    The most compelling finds were three skeletons interred close to the church wall, just beneath where the eaves would have been. According to medieval Church accounts, those buried closest to the church were first in line for Judgement Day. Who were these three individuals? The archaeologists' best guess was that they were none other than Thjodhilde, Erik and their famous son, Leif, who around the year 1,000 had set sail from Brattahlid on his epochal journey to America. Today, their bones rest on laboratory shelves in Copenhagen.
    Last edited by Louky; Friday, March 5th, 2004 at 03:57 PM.
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    Post Re: Columbus Used a Scandavian Map

    We should demand reburial for them. I'm pretty sure the records indicate Erik was a pagan til the end. Some of those Icelanders with the old religion can do his rites, and the Catholic Church could perform rites for re-burial on the part of Leif and Thjodhildr. First, however, I'd like to see some DNA extraction... I happen to know over 10 different families that claim descent from Leif Ericsson or Erik the Red ... and I'd like to see some proof. After all, if the Aborigines get their reburials, so should our folk.
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    Post Re: Columbus Used a Scandavian Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontiersman
    I happen to know over 10 different families that claim descent from Leif Ericsson or Erik the Red ... and I'd like to see some proof. After all, if the Aborigines get their reburials, so should our folk.
    It is not unlikely that many northern europeans are in fact descendant from Leif Eiriksson but nobody can really trace their genealogy to him.
    the characters do not make the genus, but the genus gives the characters -- Linnaeus

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    Post The "Red" Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontiersman
    We should demand reburial for them. I'm pretty sure the records indicate Erik was a pagan til the end. Some of those Icelanders with the old religion can do his rites, and the Catholic Church could perform rites for re-burial on the part of Leif and Thjodhildr.
    Erik was heathen all of his life despite the entreaties of Thjodhildr; until, if I'm not mistaken, he converted to Christianity on his deathbed after much pleading by Thjodhildr. As for any potential burials of all of them, IMHO, the Lutheran Church of Iceland would be the appropriate body to conduct such funerals, since the vast majority of modern Icelanders (certainly including vast #s of descendants from all of the Erik/Leif/Thjodhildr family) are Lutheran. No doubt, such funerals conducted by the Catholic Church would be considered odd/strange/out-of-place by most Icelanders of the modern era.

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    Post Re: The "Red" Family

    Quote Originally Posted by +Suomut+
    Erik was heathen all of his life despite the entreaties of Thjodhildr; until, if I'm not mistaken, he converted to Christianity on his deathbed after much pleading by Thjodhildr. As for any potential burials of all of them, IMHO, the Lutheran Church of Iceland would be the appropriate body to conduct such funerals, since the vast majority of modern Icelanders (certainly including vast #s of descendants from all of the Erik/Leif/Thjodhildr family) are Lutheran. No doubt, such funerals conducted by the Catholic Church would be considered odd/strange/out-of-place by most Icelanders of the modern era.
    I wasn't aware of Erik's conversion. However, the fact of Lutheran conversion happened at a later date: we cannot be sure that Erik and his family would have approved. There are Scandinavian Catholics, and in fact: in that era the Catholics and other Westerners will still in communion with the greater part of the Church (Orthodox) in the Slavic lands and the Eastern Roman Empire. When the crew of an old English ship were recovered some years back, the English government realized that the men would have found the modern Protestant religion 'foreign'. Therefore the funeral was done according to the old Sarum rite. So, reburial that would be most respectful to the dead would be in the rite and church of the deceased, not of the living. Technically, I suppose it would have to be Western Orthodox clergy then, being the only Christian clergy still in the communion common to that era and worshipping in the forms familiar to those people.

    IOW, a liturgy like this:

    http://www.liturgy.dk/default.asp?Action=Menu&Item=285

    One has to remember that Leif was sent West by St. Olaf, King of Norway and Greenland was placed under the patronage of the Archbishop of Hamburg-Bremen until a Bishop was sent to Greenland and the Americas at a later date. Protestantism would have been considered an entirely different religion by their people.
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    Funerals

    My mother raised me on the fact that funerals are MORE!! for the LIVING than for the dead...and since, again, the VAST! majority of all modern Icelanders are Lutheran, the odds are OVERWHELMING that such funerals would be conducted my Lutherans. Surely, most Icelanders today would surely object to any such funerals of the 'Christian' dead being conducted by anyone outside of the Icelandic Lutheran Church. Now whether that is right or wrong can be argued ad infinitum, but that is probably the fact of the matter.

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    Post Re: Funerals

    Quote Originally Posted by +Suomut+
    My mother raised me on the fact that funerals are MORE!! for the LIVING than for the dead...
    Yes, which is a common (though not universal) belief amongst many Protestants. However, it isn't a fact - it is an opinion of some. The theology that Leif Ericcsson adhered to, as well as High Church Lutherans, High Church Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Old Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Western Orthodox is that the funeral *is* a sacrament for the deceased. So, I'm sure there would be a debate on the issue if their bodies ever were repatriated. More than likely, since Greenland is not under Icelandic control.. and if Denmark did return their bodies to Thjodhildur's Church in Greenland, then we could expect that modern Greenland government would probably give them a wonderful New Age multi-media sendoff with Inuit rituals.
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