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Thread: Modern Day Descendants of the Goths?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    me too!


    dutch was a corruption of the word "deutsch" meaning german, by ignorant Englishmen.
    No, it's just 'cause in the times that name was given to them, the Dutch were German and spoke a German dialect

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Gods...

    Many thanks, Martinez, for this highly original and groundbreaking interpretation!

    I suddenly feel so GUILTY.
    What can I do to get rid of this feeling? I know! I'll ensure the collective suicide of my own race! That should extirpate the guilt.

    Oh, somebody's already started it...
    The commentary of Martinez was quite correct and you are [...], who evidently has nothing to be proud of, besides his so called "race".
    He never mentioned, that the Whites should commit a collective suicide. What was done by the European invaders in both Americas is the greatest international crime and genocide in the history and Martinez just answered to another ignoramus why do the native Americans have european names.
    And the fact is, that you, westerners, never feel guilty about anything.
    Really, what for? You don't care, you're the superior race!
    Last edited by Aeternitas; Monday, September 11th, 2006 at 12:56 PM. Reason: insult removed.

  2. #32
    Senior Member nätdeutsch's Avatar
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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by fast_tot View Post
    No, it's just 'cause in the times that name was given to them, the Dutch were German and spoke a German dialect
    not what i was told, and ive been to Lancaster many times.

    they were from switzerland and germany

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by nätdeutsch View Post
    not what i was told, and ive been to Lancaster many times.

    they were from switzerland and germany
    Who was from Switzerland and Germany? The Dutch???
    I mean, when a people was first called Dutch, that people was a part of the Holy Roman Empire and were considered Germans, so Dutch meant both Hollaender and latter Germans and it's highly possible, that when in 1648 Netherlands became independant the name Dutch was left to the Hollaender and the other Germans were since then called just "Germanics" (germans).
    Holland or Netherlands aren't the names of a people, it's just a territory, where a German tribe lived.

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    Senior Member nätdeutsch's Avatar
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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    the pennsylvania dutch were german/swiss, and called dutch as a corruption of deutsch.

    trust me on this one.

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by fast_tot View Post
    The commentary of Martinez was quite correct and you are [...], who evidently has nothing to be proud of, besides his so called "race".
    He never mentioned, that the Whites should commit a collective suicide. What was done by the European invaders in both Americas is the greatest international crime and genocide in the history and Martinez just answered to another ignoramus why do the native Americans have european names.
    And the fact is, that you, westerners, never feel guilty about anything.
    Really, what for? You don't care, you're the superior race!
    Clearly you haven't read much of what Oswiu has written on this forum. Anyways, "greatest genocide in the history"? Well, that accusation would certainly demand a more elaborate answer, don't you think? So, from your perspective, we westerners have put the whole continent to the sword? Well, we certainly have subdued it by force, as all succesful conquerors have done throughout history. Yes, we have been detrimental to their regional cultures and hindered their development, and yes, many natives were unfairly slaughtered during the conquest- but from there to turn it into "the greatest genocide"? How is the colonization of the Americas radically different from other population movements throughout history?
    Oh, bear in mind that most of the natives who died as a consequence of the European arrival did so because of disease. Biological warfare? I seriously doubt that.
    And finally, "Westerners never feel guilty about anything"??! I thought that we were living under a "culture of guilt". Everything that went wrong after interacting with other cultures is now seen as the Westerners fault. At least that's the impression I get after reading some History books or articles and after watching documentaries on the subject.
    Last edited by Aeternitas; Monday, September 11th, 2006 at 12:56 PM. Reason: quote.

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Jarl View Post
    Clearly you haven't read much of what Oswiu has written on this forum. Anyways, "greatest genocide in the history"? Well, that accusation would certainly demand a more elaborate answer, don't you think? So, from your perspective, we westerners have put the whole continent to the sword? Well, we certainly have subdued it by force, as all succesful conquerors have done throughout history. Yes, we have been detrimental to their regional cultures and hindered their development, and yes, many natives were unfairly slaughtered during the conquest- but from there to turn it into "the greatest genocide"? How is the colonization of the Americas radically different from other population movements throughout history?
    Oh, bear in mind that most of the natives who died as a consequence of the European arrival did so because of disease. Biological warfare? I seriously doubt that.
    And finally, "Westerners never feel guilty about anything"??! I thought that we were living under a "culture of guilt". Everything that went wrong after interacting with other cultures is now seen as the Westerners fault. At least that's the impression I get after reading some History books or articles and after watching documentaries on the subject.
    Clearly you haven't read the post of Martinez and haven't got the scoffing intonation of Oswiu. The were no accusations in the Martinez' post, but the answer was just about to deride the degenerative natives.

    >How is the colonization of the Americas radically different from other >population movements throughout history?

    Not a sole people or tribe were exterminated by the Russians - a white european folk - during the 1200 years' history of their state - excluding jewish tyrannic Hazaria which was totally destroyed be the grand duke Swiatoslaw in the 9th century.
    Moreover, not a sole people under Russian rule forgot their native language or even their religion. In the 21 century, when the Finns and Estonians have been Christian for 8 centuries already (being once conquered and converted by our German knights and Swedish jarls), their Fennic relatives Mari are still heathens (as well as the tribes of Siberia).
    Being called "a prison of nations", Russia has invented written languages for tens of folks and was the only colonial Empire, where the colonies were more prosperous than the ethnic Russian emperial center.
    Most of the nations were not conquered by the Russians (though would be conquered anyway), but asked Russia to become the part of the Empire in order to be protected from the Turcs (Georgia, Armenia, Moldova), Persians (Georgia, Armenia), Djungars (Kazakhs, Uighurs), Chinese (Uighurs, Mongols), Poland (former old-russian territories of Ukraine).
    Only the Tatars, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Chechens and the Daghestans were conquered. Baltic nations and Finland were conquered not as a result of the wars with them, but as a result of the wars with their Lords - Germans and Swedes. Among european nations only Poland was divided with Germans by force, being a rival country to Russia during all it's history (because of the religious cretinism of both).
    I'm not accusating anyone, i'm just appealing to the responsibility for one's words.

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by fast_tot View Post

    Not a sole people or tribe were exterminated by the Russians - a white european folk - during the 1200 years' history of their state - excluding jewish tyrannic Hazaria which was totally destroyed be the grand duke Swiatoslaw in the 9th century..

    Don´t be sarcastic...if not a entired tribe was exterminde by Russians it´s only because it was almost impossible.

    ----------------------------------------
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...47/ai_17108614

    No less than genocide - Chechnya, Russia

    National Review, June 26, 1995 by Anthony Daniels


    WHILE Bill Clinton was disporting himself with Boris Yeltsin in Moscow, General Balkhovitin, Deputy Commander of the Frontier Troops in the Caucasus Military District, was preventing the distribution of medical supplies to the 100,000 or so Chechens who have taken refuge in the town of Khasavyurt in neighboring Daghestan. He gave instructions that a large consignment of medicines from Jordan should be impounded at the Azerbaijani border with Daghestan, at the same time ordering the arrest of those who tried to collect the medicines. The need of the refugees for medical supplies is obvious enough. The Daghestani authorities, under pressure from the Russians, have provided little help for them. The local hospitals will not treat them. They have been housed ad hoc in school buildings, abandoned factories, and homes belonging to Chechens who live in Khasavyurt. Most of the refugees arrived in Daghestan with only the clothes they stood up in. The overcrowding is startling. There are 160 refugees living in half of Khasavyurt School No. 11. On the school walls hang murals of Soviet soldiers doing the goosestep. Twenty people from the village of Binoi are crowded into a room barely 12 feet by 10. When I told them that I represented a human-rights organization, they laughed bitterly. The violation of a few abstract principles did not adequately describe what they had suffered. An old lady turned her face to the wall. She was refusing to eat, hoping to die. She had lived through the deportation of the entire Chechen population by Stalin in 1943, and the Russians had destroyed her home again: and now they were even holding a parade in Grozny to celebrate their victory over fascism. Who would wish to continue to live in such a world? Everyone compared the Russians to the Nazis. They were perpetually drunk; they looted everything they could, and destroyed with gunfire things they could have easily carried lest their officers order them to do so. Wherever we went in Khasavyurt, people spoke passionately about the terror unleashed by the Russian army, about its brutality and bestiality. Even allowing for the traditional enmity of the Chechens toward the Russians, whose domination they have been resisting for three centuries, the eyewitness stories were so consistent in tone that it was impossible to disbelieve in their fundamental truthfulness. Cattle were slaughtered; no one had so much as a chicken left. Doors were booby-trapped. A woman protested when three soldiers dragged her daughter off, and her legs were strafed by machine-gun fire. Refugees fleeing from the Russian army were likewise strafed and bombed, and one man had seen two refugee vehicles destroyed by fire from a jet fighter. At Samashki, one woman had seen the men of the place led away; stragglers were run down and squashed by tanks. The houses were looted and burned. The soldiers mocked those whom they did not shoot. Helicopters hovering over the villages had broadcast demands for the surrender of all guerillas. The bombardment of the villages had begun soon afterward, and many children had been buried in the rubble. One nursing mother had lost a child, crushed by a falling roof; her breast milk had dried up afterward, and her baby had died for lack of any substitute. She cried as she narrated this, in a room in which there was a picture of the infant Lenin on the wall. No one has yet thought to remove the icons of Lenin in the Russian periphery. In that same room, all the children were malnourished and severely infected with scabies. They were not permitted to mix with the local children -- there was no medicine to cure it. On and on went the stories, of extortion and cruelty, of killing and looting. The Russians would not allow the Chechens to bury their dead without payment of a large fee; often they came to houses and threatened to kill the inhabitants unless a payment (preferably in dollars) was forthcoming. It was a threat they carried out often. The Russians had hoped that the refugees would return to Chechnya for Victory Day, so that they might persuade a gullible world that everything had returned to normal, and that the ``police action'' in the North Caucasus was over. Some refugees had attempted to go home, but they had turned around again immediately because of the complete destruction of their property and the continuation of the war. For once, the word genocide seemed scarcely an expression of generalized paranoia. Of course, the refugees had many theories to explain the catastrophe which had overwhelmed them. The war was about oil, or oil pipelines; or it was the means by which the Russians found accommodation for their troops returning from Germany, with the conscripts who had previously occupied the barracks being sent to the war and the vacated barracks then accommodating the troops from Germany. And of course the Russians could not allow themselves to be defeated militarily by a tiny nation (a compromise being counted as a defeat), for military might has long been the guarantee of Russian greatness. Without the sheer brute power to overwhelm its neighbors, Russia would be of little account in the world: its foreign trade is less than Belgium's, its political traditions are uniformly disastrous, and its material civilization is repellent. Yet it also has a belief in its mission civilisatrice. For many years, the historical fiction was taught that the Caucasus was incorporated into Russia peacefully, at the wish of the local people. But the old hatreds subsist, and I was told by one nationalist that a Caucasian kills a Russian as a ratcatcher kills a rat -- itself an attitude to make one tremble. Meanwhile, the Chechen refugees uniformly expressed their contempt for President Clinton. In their eyes, his appearance in Moscow was craven and cowardly. It was the moral equivalent of paying the Dane-geld. And ``if once you have paid him the Dane-geld/You never get rid of the Dane.''

    -----------------

    Georgia More to Blame for Stalinist Genocide — Russian Envoy to Ukraine
    Created: 20.04.2005 15:46 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 15:46 MSK


    MosNews

    Russian ambassador to Ukraine, former Russian PM, Viktor Chernomyrdin, said Georgia is more to blame for genocide of Ukrainians than Russia.

    Speaking to journalists, the ambassador said that since Joseph Stalin was originally from Georgia, accusations of mass repressions should be directed at that country, Lenta.Ru reported.

    Chernomyrdin was asked whether Russia acknowledged the genocide of the Ukrainians by the Soviet leadership. “If we speak about terror in the times of the USSR, as a result of that, the number of Russians killed was far greater than that of Ukrainians. We still cannot answer to our people for that. If anyone is to receive claims, address them to Georgia, the ’father of nations’ Joseph Stalin was from that country,” the ambassador replied.

    Historians estimate that some seven million people died during the 1932-33 famine, which Ukrainians say was deliberately started by the then Soviet leader Joseph Stalin.

    Under his policy of forced collectivisation of agriculture, farmers in Ukraine — known as the “bread basket” of the USSR — were stripped of all their produce, leaving millions of people with virtually no food to survive

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    Quote Originally Posted by fast_tot View Post
    It's so stupid, when someone, who isn't Germanic is finding out illusory Germanic ancestors, 'cause it's cool to think, that only the Germanics are the "highest race" and every moron wants to belong to the "highest race". Why not to say - i'm a blond, blue-eyed Spaniard or Croat or Kaschubian? Aren't there nordics among Slavs, Celts, romance people like the French? Eh?
    Why just looking for something Germanic in everyone who looks nordic?
    And for me, as a half-German, it's so ridiculous when some Slavs are speaking here about their mythical "germanic ancestry".
    Be pride of yourself! Your languages are thousand times more archaic then even German, which is the most archaic Germanic language. Every linguist will confirm you that. The race of Poles, Belorussians, Czechs, Slovaks, Russians isn't darker or less Europid as the race of Germans or Austrians, you were heathens for a much longer time than the Germanics, and preserved your ancient, pre-christian culture for a much longer time than the Germanics.
    For every Germanic, respecting himself, your behaviour is a subject of laughter.
    Yeah well what are you gonna do about ignorant people. I'm Swedish myself and I think this stereotype about being blond, blue-eyed and tall has gone way too far. I carry "the viking marker" in my DNA, same haplogroup as the Goths which is I1a but I'm 1,73m, blue-eyed and have middle brown hair. I mean of course there are some differences in the scandinavian appearances apart from other germanic people but I wouldn't make it that simple.

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    Thank god,fast_tot this crazy russian was banned.

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    The Gothic Ancestry

    Quote Originally Posted by Fionn View Post
    Are there any people living today in Europe that are the direct descendants of the Goths? I realize that there are probably very many people who are partially descended from them since the Goths invaded and settled different parts of Europe and mixed with other peoples. This is something I've always wondered about.

    Yes!
    Routes: Sweden->Gotland
    -> Poland
    ->Ukraine->Balkan
    ->Italy
    ->Spain
    It is a part of the genetic Y-DNA Haplogroup I - seperated into Subgroups.
    Their languages nower days are germanic, romanic and slavic. Genetic also mixed with other Haplogroups, or developed a new form of Hg I by influences of other Hgs.
    Västar and Östar Götar in South Sweden and
    the Isle Gotland
    Väster Götar/ Gautes- West Goths
    ---> Gothalonia=> Catalania- NE Spain, Baleares
    and also some regions of the rest northern Iberia, Spain and Portugal,
    and in Italy- not big enough to develope a special region or ethnic group
    Östar Götar/ Gautes- East Goths
    ---> Krimgoths- died out, only individual ancestries there existing
    ---> Moldavians and Croatians are romans/ slavs in linguistic, but genetic more germanic east goths
    like some regions of Slovenia and Italy, but Slovenians and Serbians are more genetic Slavs, Bosniaks just Croatians mixed with Hgs of the Nearer East and Asia (Turkeys)

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