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Thread: Modern Day Descendants of the Goths?

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclides
    Surnames that ends in Ez and Es in Spain and Portugal are considered fom visigothic origins, an example is Gonzalez ( Gonçalves in Portugal ):
    This might be true in Spain or Portugal. But there are many Indians & Mestizos in the New World who have names ending in Ez who have no relationship to the Visigoths. From my own experience from living in Arizona & California the most common surnames among Mexicans are Martinez, Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Lopez, Gomez & Garcia.

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    My homeland Kashubia(Pomerania) in today´s northern Poland was
    the first settlement of the Goths outside of Scandinavia.
    In the village Wesiory(county Karthaus/Westpreussen) which belonged to my noble family in former times is a gothic cementery from 1.-2.century.
    I think that not all goths moved away to the Black Sea.

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madoc
    This might be true in Spain or Portugal. But there are many Indians & Mestizos in the New World who have names ending in Ez who have no relationship to the Visigoths. From my own experience from living in Arizona & California the most common surnames among Mexicans are Martinez, Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Lopez, Gomez & Garcia.
    Yes, those are very common names in Latin America. And I agree that most of those who carry such surnames have nothing to do with the Visigoths, but still it could be possible for some mestizos to have minimal Visigothic influence. After all, surnames come from the paternal line, and we all know that miscegenation was originally between Spanish (those who carried such surnames and might have had some Visigothic blood) men and Indian women.

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madoc
    This might be true in Spain or Portugal. But there are many Indians & Mestizos in the New World who have names ending in Ez who have no relationship to the Visigoths. From my own experience from living in Arizona & California the most common surnames among Mexicans are Martinez, Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Lopez, Gomez & Garcia.
    The things are not simple...Many Portuguese and Spaniards with surnames ending in ez/ es don´t have the haplogroup I ( what doesn´t means that they don´t have visigothic ancestry...). But also in Iberia peninsula, some males with surnames not ending in ez/es have the I haplogroup.For example:in Galicia the surname Castro ( that is tipically from north Iberia ) is found among males that are R1b1, but also some Castro are I1b2 ( basque variation of ''I'').The actual origin of the name is known in so much a family that was headed by a German nobleman, came to the Iberian peninsular in 884. ''Castro'' is the name of ancient celtic or pre-celtic circular fortified areas, each possessing one or several concentric walls, preceded generally by their corresponding moat (or defensive ditch) and situated mainly on the top of mountains,and there are at least 20 towns of various sizes from very small villages to larger towns and cities in Spain and Portugal which start with the name of Castro, and it´s also used by converted jewish families...
    Garcia is the most common surname among Spaniards ( about 4% of population), so it´s also possible that we have not all the Garcias carring the same Y haplogroup....
    Anyway, the genetic impact of germanic migrations to Iberia pensinsula in total population ,is considered small than the Muslim domination.

    Because surnames in Europe come from the paternal lineage, and because in south America most miscigenations were between caucasian males/ colored woman, haplogroup I also can be found among mestizo mexicans and in other parts of latin america.
    Last edited by Euclides; Wednesday, August 2nd, 2006 at 08:05 PM.

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Don't forget about the Cossacks, there are quite strong indications that they have considerable amounts of Gothic ancestry too. It's also found in some terms they use, like «атаман» [ataman; as in ‘Hauptman’].

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madoc View Post
    This might be true in Spain or Portugal. But there are many Indians & Mestizos in the New World who have names ending in Ez who have no relationship to the Visigoths. From my own experience from living in Arizona & California the most common surnames among Mexicans are Martinez, Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Lopez, Gomez & Garcia.

    that's the reason why I hate Mexicans, Amerindian Mexicans (30% of the mexicans with non Spanish blood at all) stole Spanish names and use it for them, if they were so proud of their heritage why they didn't use their indian names??

    Bolivians and people from Jujuy (which means Bolivian or it should mean) have Spanish surname but they are even more pure native americans than the MExicans (about 70%) how do they get their names?.

    ANyway, in Buenos Aires and Montevideo you'll find lots of people with that surnames whose surnames came right from their parents or grandparents (who are or were Spanish). You find totally europid families (many of them blonde and light-eyed) with those surnames.

    But when I see totally native or mestizo people (like almot all the Mexicans) use them, it angers me because they or took it from the Spanish conqueers four centuries ago, or they have an ancestry with that surname but they are half amerindians.

    I guess the same happen with british surnames and black people. There are also many blacks in L. American countries like Dominican Republic, COlombia etc who took Spanish surnames. The same happen with Portuguese surnames took it by the blacks in Brazil.

    Do the Native Americans in the Us have english surnames too?

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Here View Post
    Do the Native Americans in the Us have english surnames too?
    In the eastern U.S. Native Americans have Europid surnames but most Indians in the East have significant European ancestry & the eastern Indians are realtively few. Most Indians live in the West. Some have Europid surnames, others have indigenous surnames. Many Native Americans in New Mexico, Arizona & California have Spanish surnames. This is because of the influence of the Spanish missions in the 18th century.

    Most Negroes in the U.S have Europid surnames. Probably the most common surname among Blacks is Jackson. Washington is another common surname among Blacks.

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    Question Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Well did they die out? Or were the Goths a tribe that eventually integrated?

    I know from some vague knowledge of the Goths, that their language is long extinct, but has close ties to old english (not shakespearean rather english dating back to 500ad) old high/low franconian, and german.

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madoc View Post
    In the eastern U.S. Native Americans have Europid surnames but most Indians in the East have significant European ancestry & the eastern Indians are realtively few. Most Indians live in the West. Some have Europid surnames, others have indigenous surnames. Many Native Americans in New Mexico, Arizona & California have Spanish surnames. This is because of the influence of the Spanish missions in the 18th century.

    Most Negroes in the U.S have Europid surnames. Probably the most common surname among Blacks is Jackson. Washington is another common surname among Blacks.
    Yes, and the Europid surnames are often translations of their tribal names in their native tongue, some common indian surnames around here are "comes-in-the-night","gopher","walker", ect. Lots to do with animals and verbs in any case.

    Right you are and if you have just met a black man, you can almost guarantee that he has a british surname (which can get extremely monotonous), not to mention all of the guys and girls tend to have the first same names. What I find funny is the added "La" at the beginning of names, as if it would sound more cultured, and therefore better. Some of my favourites would be "Latasha, Latoya, Lashanda, Lawanda, Latony ect." It is the most rediculous Negroe naming trend.

    And as he said the south US is almost always Spanish surnames and most typically these few "Ramirez,Gonzalez,Rodrigeuz" ect. There are of course lots more but those are the ones you hear time and time again.
    Last edited by norskdeutschami; Thursday, August 31st, 2006 at 06:24 AM. Reason: typo

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    Re: Modern day descendants of the Goths?

    Quote Originally Posted by norskdeutschami View Post
    Well did they die out? Or were the Goths a tribe that eventually integrated?

    I know from some vague knowledge of the Goths, that their language is long extinct, but has close ties to old english (not shakespearean rather english dating back to 500ad) old high/low franconian, and german.
    I don't know for the Ostrogoths, but the Visigoths in Spain merged with the native Hispano-Roman population, creating what we know as the Hispano-Gothic population. Goths (and Suebi/Swebes) in Spain represented 10%-15% of the population.

    I don't think Old English had any ties with Gothic, as both were different extremes of the Germanic family (one West Germanic, and the other East Germanic).

    Some words have survived from Gothic in the Spanish language, apart of the given names (that are quite a lot), most of them make reference to war and peace, not strange for a war-like people like the Goths. Here's a list with some war words:

    Spanish (probable origin) - English
    Albergue (Herberge) - similar to Hostel
    Bandera (Bandi) - Flag
    Barón (Baro) - Baron
    Guardar (Wardon) - to guard
    Guerra (Werr-) - War
    Orgullo (Urguol) - Pride
    Tregua (Triggwa) - Truce
    Yelmo (Helmus) - Helmet

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