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Thread: North/South Genetic Divide in Europe

  1. #11
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    AW: Re: AW: Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Huzar
    Sorry, Zyk. (next time you'll do better )
    I only posted a quote from the study. Never would I dare to voice my personal opinion in a thread where Polak and Huzar, my best friends on the internet, are discussing stuff.
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop
    I only posted a quote from the study. Never would I dare to voice my personal opinion
    Of course. I can't dubt at all. From what i know, you're too honest, noble and correct, to attempt any political insinuation inside an innocent post.


    in a thread where Polak and Huzar, my best friends on the internet, are discussing stuff.

    Indeed. It's well-known, you're a big fan of Polak and Huzar.

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    Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    Well I don't think this study is reliable at all, but Huzar you cannot deny it only because you don't like the results. Perhaps Northern Italy is full of Southern Italians, but Northern Spain is also full of Southern Spaniards, especially Catalonia, the Basque Country and Galicia.

    And I don't really understand why you find it so hard to believe that Northern Spain is probably more "Nordic" than Northern Italy, taking into account that Italy received much more Neolithic influence than Spain. Not that I really care as I am a Mediterranid Galician.

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    Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaico
    Well I don't think this study is reliable at all, but Huzar you cannot deny it only because you don't like the results. Perhaps Northern Italy is full of Southern Italians, but Northern Spain is also full of Southern Spaniards, especially Catalonia, the Basque Country and Galicia.

    And I don't really understand why you find it so hard to believe that Northern Spain is probably more "Nordic" than Northern Italy, taking into account that Italy received much more Neolithic influence than Spain. Not that I really care as I am a Mediterranid Galician.
    The doubts are grounded on the facts that usually lighter pigmented Italians are found in relatively good number as much as lighter pigmented Spainiards if we talk about "Northern" populations of these countries..so the scores look quite odd also because other researches posted in the past showed different kind of results.

    Anyway as Polak already pointed out the numbers are still distant from what Central European samples scored so it's not such a big deal even if the big shift surprised me a bit

    "E tutti si scandalizzano quando sentono dire: quel tale tipo di mammifero o di uccello ormai è sparito dalla faccia della terra, non lo vedremo più; è una grave perdita. Certo, si tratta di gravissime perdite.
    Ma non sarebbe forse più grave se sparisse una comunità umana?? --Bruno Salvadori

    Seven pictures of northern European males and seven pictures of northern African males were presented randomly via a computer screen to 82 Italian female undergraduates of the University of Padua, Italy.
    Each picture depicted a full frontal face with a neutral facial expression. Participants were asked to classify each picture as either northern Italian or southern Italian.
    On average, the seven pictures depicting northern Europeans were classified as northern Italians 81% of the time. The seven pictures depicting northern Africans were classified as southern Italians 83%
    of the time.



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    Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Gesta Bellica
    The doubts are grounded on the facts that usually lighter pigmented Italians are found in relatively good number as much as lighter pigmented Spainiards if we talk about "Northern" populations of these countries..so the scores look quite odd also because other researches posted in the past showed different kind of results.

    Anyway as Polak already pointed out the numbers are still distant from what Central European samples scored so it's not such a big deal even if the big shift surprised me a bit
    Well, as I said before, I don't give a damn about this whole study. IMO it is ridiculous to only distinguish the European population into Northern and Southern, taking as a basis certain genetic markers which have certainly been subjectively selected.

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    Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaico
    Well I don't think this study is reliable at all, but Huzar you cannot deny it only because you don't like the results.
    I can deny, because it's unlogical.

    And I don't really understand why you find it so hard to believe that Northern Spain is probably more "Nordic" than Northern Italy, taking into account that Italy received much more Neolithic influence than Spain. Not that I really care as I am a Mediterranid Galician.
    Northern Italy is more upper paleolithical than neolithical

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    Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Huzar
    I can deny, because it's unlogical.
    sources?
    Northern Italy is more upper paleolithical than neolithical
    Sure, but no more UP than Northern Spain.

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    Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaico
    Sure, but no more UP than Northern Spain.

    Northern Italy and Northern Spain aren't comparable, i repeat. Whole Spain, from north to south, less or more, belongs to a mediterranean and south-european origin. It's generally homogeneous. North-Italy , on the opposite, is very different from its central-southern part : it belongs to Dinaric-Alpinid continuum of continental (central) Europe.

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    Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaico
    Well, as I said before, I don't give a damn about this whole study. IMO it is ridiculous to only distinguish the European population into Northern and Southern, taking as a basis certain genetic markers which have certainly been subjectively selected.

    This is an autosomal study that looks at hundreds of SNP markers. Compare that to past studies that looked at just one marker on the Y-chromosome.

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    Re: North/South genetic divide in Europe

    My 2 cents on the Spanish/Italian thing...

    I think that this test looks for northern European influence versus southern European. For us to work out native Central European influence we'd need to look at different markers. And if we do that then north Italians might come out looking a lot more Central European that Spaniards. But the Spaniards will still be more Northern European, because they have a relatively close relationship with Atlantic North West Europe genetically speaking.

    With different markers, or a few hunderd other markers, we might see north Italians closer to Germans, Austrians and Hungarians...but not that much closer to the Irish, Scandinavians, Balts and northern Slavs.

    I also have a feeling that with more markers we'd see a bit of a split between the Atlantic/North Sea and Baltic populations.

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