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Thread: The Amish & Pennsylvania Dutch/Germans

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    IHR Revisionist Conference, April 24, 2004, internet broadcast:

    http://www.internationalrevisionistconference.c om/

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    Thumbs Down Re: Support Pennsylvania-German efforts

    Thank you for your post.

    We have moved Deitscherei.com to Deitscherei.org and are currently underway at moving information along in the communities faster than ever.

    Deitscherei.org is committed to the advancement of the Pennsylvania German culture (language, various modes of living, etc.). Preservation is not enough.

    Speakers of Pennsylvania German are encouraged to find ways to help expand the use of the language throughout the Deitscherei.

    Other talents need to be channeled into the cause as well. We need people who have organizational skills, recording talents, etc. to give the language a modern outlet for use that will interest the non-plain youth in their heritage.

    As time goes on and our site gathers more steam, we will surely be carrying more information about opportunities for people to put their talents to use.

    Thank you very much.

    obacht@deitscherei.com

  3. #23
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    Thumbs Down Heathen Traditions of the Pennsylvania Dutch Still Strong

    http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=5811

    Heathen Traditions of the Pennsylvania Dutch Still Strong

    Folk magic, runic hex-signs, dialect all strengthen sense of identity, common purpose

    The word “Dutch” refers to “Deutsch” (German), not the Netherlands, and the Pennsylvania Dutch originate in southwestern Germany. Their language, Pennsylvania Dutch (Pennsilfaani-Deitsch) is still spoken by up to a quarter million people, mainly in and around Lancaster County.

    While the folk magic of the Pennsylvania Dutch is today seen mainly as a set of cultural folk customs, scholars have been able to trace much of the content to pre-Christian times. Pennsylvania folk magic is a syncretic Christo-pagan belief system expressed through the beautiful hex-signs seen on barns and in homes, and as a series of folksy aphorisms, folk tales and superstitions passed down orally from generation to generation. It is also syncretic in the sense that its practitioners do not consider it to be a religion, and are usually church-going Christians. But the men and women who practice the wisdom would have been considered witches at one point in European and American history.

    The “bible” of the Pennsylvania Dutch folk magic system is the book Pow-Wows, a compilation of folk customs compiled by John George Hoffman in 1820. Despite the name, this folk magic has nothing to do with American Indian religion. The symbolism, formulae and history of the customs are uniquely Germanic, and distinct from the Celtic-derived folk magic of much of the South.

    One of the best-known products of the Pennsylvania folk magic system are the hex-signs, roundels brightly painted to ward against evil and bring good fortune. (Although many people associate the hex-signs with the better-known Amish and Mennonites, these “plain people” are generally puritanical and eschew folk magic.) Researchers have shown that the hex signs conceal protective runic charms and display colors and mythical shapes and fauna directly descended from Germanic heathenism. Recently there has been a revived interest from Whites outside of the Pennsylvania Dutch community proper to study and practice this Germanic form of White American folk magic and to appreciate a living aspect of our collective folk soul.

    Summary of Hexology (from the work of Edred Thorburnrson):

    · The Pennsylvania Dutch farmers created their own American brand of magic with their hex signs.
    · The use of graphic signs and incantation is similar to rune magic.
    · The incantations or spells are taken from grimoires or magic manuals.
    · A written blessing is called a "Himmelsbrief".
    · The hex sign is circular and divided into three zones: core self, inner world, outer world.
    · Geometrical shapes have different meanings: e.g. threefold pattern = spirituality.
    · Symbols used in hex signs include earth star (good things, harmony), tulip (faith, loyalty), heart, golden finch (good luck), eagle (strength and courage), oak leaf (masculinity), acorns (male sexuality), rain drops (nourishment), pomegranates (fertility), lightning bolt (breaking loose), grapes (female fertility), clover (sweetness).
    · Colors all have meanings: white = purity, innocence, red = love, vitality, freedom; black = death, lust; blue = spiritual strength; violet = dignity, power; yellow = divine love.
    Why They Hate Us by Joseph Sobran: Western man towers over the rest of the world in ways so large as to be almost inexpressible. It's Western exploration, science, and conquest that have revealed the world to itself. Other races feel like subjects of Western power long after colonialism, imperialism, and slavery have disappeared. The charge of racism puzzles whites who feel not hostility, but only baffled good will, because they don't grasp what it really means: humiliation. The white man presents an image of superiority even when he isn't conscious of it. And superiority excites envy. Destroying white civilization is the inmost desire of the league of designated victims we call 'minorities.' From Sobran's Newsletter, April 1997

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    Thanks for this article, I am a descendant from the Pennsylvania Dutch, and it's always interesting to learn a little bit more about your ancestors.

    I take it you also descend from them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NordicPower88
    I take it you also descend from them?
    No, I just thought it was interesting how certain pagan practices survive Christianity. Also, some of my classmates in elementary school were Amish, so I try to keep track of issues related to those people.
    Why They Hate Us by Joseph Sobran: Western man towers over the rest of the world in ways so large as to be almost inexpressible. It's Western exploration, science, and conquest that have revealed the world to itself. Other races feel like subjects of Western power long after colonialism, imperialism, and slavery have disappeared. The charge of racism puzzles whites who feel not hostility, but only baffled good will, because they don't grasp what it really means: humiliation. The white man presents an image of superiority even when he isn't conscious of it. And superiority excites envy. Destroying white civilization is the inmost desire of the league of designated victims we call 'minorities.' From Sobran's Newsletter, April 1997

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    Re: Pennsylvania Dutch Are Of German Heritage, Not Dutch.

    We live in an area where there is a large Mennonite community. We are friends with most of them, all of the ones we know. Not all of them are natives of Georgia, many of them have moved down here from the Midwest. In the past every time we get together, whether we go riding together, having dinner together or just visiting they would tell me that they speak Dutch and are of Dutch descent. I ask them to speak to me and they do NOT speak Dutch but clearly German, Plattdeutsch. The origin of this "Dutch thing" has to do that when these people first immigrated to America, their English-speaking neighbors were not able to pronounce the word "Deutsch" correctly but pronounced it as "Dutch." Ask them about their ancestry and they will tell you their ancestors came from the Schweiz or around the Black Forrest. So we always have a lot to talk about .
    In Deutsch.

    Georgia
    I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging the future but by the past.
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    Re: Pennsylvania Dutch Are Of German Heritage, Not Dutch.

    Jawohl,This is particularly annoying because I am most likely a descendent [1/8th only, sadly] of these people myself. Most likely Alamannic from Baden-Wuerttemburg. The colors of the old Suddeutschfahne were Black and Gold, the colours of the Pittsburgh Steelers football team. BTW I just got back from Berlin after a month, my German has improved considerably, but that was mostly from the Intensive German program in Taos NM, there's too much English and too many frogs in Berlin. Hopefully I'll get to go to a more suburban German place in the future.
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

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    Re: The PA "Dutch"

    Quote Originally Posted by +Suomut+ View Post



    The simple fact of the matter is: there are VERY FEW folks in North America of Nederlander descent. "New Amsterdam/New York" really was the hub of Nederlander-Americanism. Beyond that colony, there were FEW others in the orginal American colonies of Nederlander heritage. There are VERY FEW folks here in the U. S. today that can claim Nederlander colonial heritage.
    Actually there are probably tens of millions of Americans who are of colonial Dutch (Netherlands) descent. They were part of the founding population of America & very large families were the norm till about the Civil War era. However in most cases it's probably small proportion compared to the number of British & German ancestors.

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    Re: Pennsylvania Dutch Are Of German Heritage, Not Dutch.

    The subject of colonial dutch ancestry is of great interest to me. My surname begins with Van*****. However whenever people would ask us about our ancestry my father would sidestep the question of our surname and start talking about collateral lines. Some cousins claimed that the name came from Alsace-Lorraine but I believe that is a bunch of crap after conducting my own research. When I pressed her she said that the name was originally spelled with a 'von' which I consider to be a ridiculous claim consider how rare anyone with that prefix for a surname was in the early colonies. My earliest known ancestor was born in New Jersey in 1763 and then moved to Pennsylvania with his family. When the family moved to PA they associated mainly with the Scotch-Irish presbyterian community with the exception with the many marriages with one family that came from nj earlier who was indeed ancient knickerbocker dutch lineage. However I feel like an idiot with a surname that makes no sense. I actually talked to one distant bearer of my surname who moved to Britain with her English husband who vacation a lot in Holland and said that noone recognizes it.

    That said I have some true Pennsylvania Deutsch lines and they don't have anything like Van in front of the name.

  10. #30
    wilhelmmichael
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    Re: The amish of New England (U.S.A) are they mostly Nordic?

    Being a citizen of South Dakota and being of "hutterite" blood myself (my grandmother), I can say that for the most part they are nordid-- some extreme, and some with traces of alpine in them. It's a very hutterite trait, too, to have white, yes, literally WHITE hair as a child and then have it darken to a lighter, or even medium shade of brown as the child gets older. In fact, "pure" hutterites generally have crystal blue eyes throughout the entirety of their lives -- Those with brown eyes are obviously not "ethnically pure" through my standards. However, many have mixtures of light blue/grey/green in their eyes- . The adults rarely have blond hair.. Many have dark blond/light brown to medium brown hair-- and a few with dark brown hair (although it's a rareity). But, to answer your question, many appear quite nordic, with small traces of alpine (they originated from the german state of Bavaria and upper austria) .

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