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Thread: Classify Michael Sheen & Rik Mayall & Andy Serkis

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    Post Classify Rik Mayall

    I always thought that Rik Mayall look Keltic Nordic.

    He is really funny as Tory MP Alan B'Stard in "The New Statesman" (1987-1992). Watch it if you can.

    Last edited by Glenlivet; Sunday, August 7th, 2005 at 10:58 PM.

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    Senior Member Zimmer Mann's Avatar
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    Post Re: Rik Mayall

    Quite gracile and very nordid. Could have some saxon perhaps. Might not. It's hard to tell. Chances are he is probably closer to what we would think of as Keltic Nordic. Similar to British actor Terrance Stamp or American Andrew MacCarthy.

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    Post Re: Rik Mayall

    He looks somewhat Anglo-Saxon too. He has good combination of rugged and gracile features which gives him a sharp look.

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    Post Re: Rik Mayall

    Perhaps he does. I thought mostly of his profile. The angle between his nose and sloping forehead look more Keltic Nordic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Paladin
    He looks somewhat Anglo-Saxon too. He has good combination of rugged and gracile features which gives him a sharp look.

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    Post Re: Rik Mayall

    Some Nordi-Brunn variant (with the former obviously predominant)

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    Post Re: Rik Mayall

    If he is Keltic, do you suppose his type could be so close to Anglo-Saxon or other Skando-Germanics, that he could be confused for one by a casual observer? The first photo clearly depicts a Nordic man. This type might also dispell the critics who are not convinced the dutch have a large Keltic genetic make-up.

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    Post Re: Rik Mayall

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer Mann
    If he is Keltic, do you suppose his type could be so close to Anglo-Saxon or other Skando-Germanics, that he could be confused for one by a casual observer?
    The weaker chin, sloping forehead, prominent nose that project out and is more in line with the forehead, are not Anglo-Saxon looking.

    No, he does not look like any Scandinavian that I have seen, but neither do most "Anglo-Saxons". Lundman did not talk about an Anglo-Saxon type, and if he ever would it would probably be Nordid with weak Litorid element. That is how he described Frisians in northern Netherlands (Lundman, 1988). The type is altered, Coon wrote that too. I do not understand why Keltic Nordic which is altered is put in the same group as Hallstatt Nordic and "Anglo-Saxon" is less Nordid. Coon favoured a Mediterranoid bone structure of Nordids.

    Northern Dutchmen and Frisians and NW Germans are close to SW Scandinavians, but the people in the latter population are more Göta, narrower-faced, longer-headed and more gracile.

    He would go unnoticed, but that is because of the light skin, hair and eyes. Morphology is slightly different, especially forehead. Nasal shape is also uncommon.

    The first photo clearly depicts a Nordic man. This type might also dispell the critics who are not convinced the dutch have a large Keltic genetic make-up.
    I am not sure if the Keltic type is the same as "Keltic genetic make-up" (see Baker's differentation between germano - and gallokelten). The Belgae have been described as both Germanic and Celtic.

    The eastern and central English are genetically close to the Frisians.

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    Post Re: Rik Mayall

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenlivet
    (see Baker's differentation between germano - and gallokelten)
    His differentiation was pointless, because the Gallo Kelts were physically almost indistingushable from the British and Irish Kelts, although in some areas of France, pre-Celtic types do predominate in ancient Gaulish burials.

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    Post Re: Rik Mayall

    Morant did his studies.

    What do you base your argument on?

    "French anthropologists adopted the name 'race kymrique' for the physically very different 'Germanic' invaders from the north-east (that is to say, the Germanokelten). This name (spelled 'race kimrique') had been used by the French historian Amédée Thierry[ 1040] for the martial people who inhabited both banks of the lower Rhine and the neighbouring littoral region; he included the 'Belges' (Caesar's 'Belgae') as part of this 'race'. Thierry himself did not give any description of the physique of these people. It is evident that the French anthropologists applied the name 'racekymrique' to those Nordids who spoke a Celtic language. The question next arises, 'What were the physical characters of the invaders who brought the Iron Age culture to Great Britain, and whom Ceasar called Celtae and Belgae?' This can best be answered by the study of the skeletons that their descendants left in the graveyards of the Romano-British period. The skulls have been subjected to very careful study, with full statistical analysis, by Morant.[762] It is clear that those Celtae and Belgae who established themselves in Britain were essentially Nordid. Indeed, it is shown in the table on p. 82 of Morant's paper that their skulls scarcely differ from those of the Anglo-Saxons who subsequently dominated them, except in one particular character, namely, that the skull is slightly (but significantly) lower in the Iron Age man than in the Anglo-Saxon. Beyond this there are some minor differences that might be noticed if it were possible to put a typical Iron Age man of Romano-British times beside an Anglo-Saxon.[226] The skull might be meso- rather than dolichocranial, and not only lower, but rounded on top instead of slightly keeled; the cranial capacity would be a little less. The distance between the level of the lower teeth and the chin would probably be less than in the deep-jawed Anglo-Saxon. The build would tend to be slighter, with less massive long-bones moved by less powerful muscles. One thing is certain. The Celts who came to Britain were not the Celts of Broca, Lagneau, and Dally. They were Germanokelten, not Gallokelten; essentially Nordid, not Alpinid. It follows that in all probability they were mainly fair-haired, though some of the Celtae who had Alpinids among their ancestors may have had pale brown hair, and exact uniformity in this respect would anyhow not be expected."

    John R. Baker, Race,15 The Celts, London, Oxford University Press, 1974


    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch
    His differentiation was pointless, because the Gallo Kelts were physically almost indistingushable from the British and Irish Kelts, although in some areas of France, pre-Celtic types do predominate in ancient Gaulish burials.

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    Post Re: Rik Mayall

    I think the problem is probably derived from Broca, Lagneau and Dally taking a common French type and assuming it was that of the Gauls. I can only guess that their assumption was not based on the study of ancient skeletons.

    The Celtae were Gauls (Gallokelten?) though, and to put it simply, I find the expression "Germanokelten" somewhat ludicrous, unless it refers only to the Belgae, who (or at least some of whom) were perhaps partly Germanic.

    Here is some of Coon's writing on the 'The Kelts':

    "Most of the La Tène material from France comes from the north, from the Maine region, where the Keltic settlement seems to have been particularly strong. Fortunately, large and competent series of the Gauls of this district, before and after the Roman conquest, furnish adequate information. (See Appendix I, col. 34.) Both groups are alike, showing that submission to Roman rule did nothing to change the physical type of this particular people.
    The Gauls as so represented were mesocephalic, mesoprosopic, and on the upper borders of leptorrhiny. The vault, as with all characteristic La Tène Keltic groups, is not distinguished for its height, and in the large and more reliable post-Roman series, it is definitely low. Like their relatives in central Europe, these Gauls were not noted for tall stature; a mean of 166 cm. is only moderate.

    In other parts of France, the Keltic racial continuity was of variable intensity; in Lorraine and Beaune, the usual type was found; but in Haute Savoie and Vendée the earlier brachycephalic population is strongly represented in Keltic tombs, while out on the tip of Brittany, Neolithic survivors of Mediterranean type, with perhaps some Gaulish admixture, persisted until the period of Roman conquest. Only in the north, therefore, did the Kelts make a firm imprint in the early population of what was to become the French nation.

    The Kelts in the British Isles are known to us by a large series of Brythonic crania from England and southern Scotland, assembled by Morant (see Appendix I, col. 35); these are three millimeters longer headed than the Bohemian and Swiss series, but nearly identical in vault dimensions with the French; facially they are the same as all of the others. Smaller collections of Goidelic crania from Ireland show the skulls from this country to be exactly the same as those from Great Britain. Several morphological features distinguish these skulls, of the typical, or mesocephalic, group - which in the British Isles seems largely to lack the brachycephalic minority which accompanies the main type in central and eastern Europe. The forehead is quite sloping; the vault, when seen from behind, gives a cylindrical impression, rather than that of a rhomboid or rectangle, as with other Nordic crania. The upper face is quite long, the mandible wide at the back, and relatively shallow. The nose is often very prominent."
    I find Baker's comparison of Celtic and Anglo-Saxon skulls curious; he seems to be saying they are very similar. I don't think there is a great deal of similarity really; the Brythonic skulls are shallow in the mandible, the Anglo-Saxon quite deep; the latter have rather steep foreheads, the former exceptionally sloping foreheads. The form and degree of prominence of the nose is also different.

    I think if an Iron Age British man stood beside an Anglo-Saxon we wouldn't see any notable similarity, although they are not strikingly dissimilar either.

    A comparison between Celts and Arabids would probably find as close or a closer similarity as far as skeletal structure is concerned (I'm not suggesting Arabid mixture in Celts btw).
    Last edited by Rhydderch; Wednesday, August 10th, 2005 at 02:27 PM.

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