Semi-serious hypothetical topic;
Out of all the sub-types in Europe... if the strongest, most athletic examples were chosen and pitted against each other (for example, Brunn vs Halstatt).
Which group would finish with the most wins, provided the fighting was one-on-one and restricted to fight fighting or basic weapons (clubs).
Thats useless since it was never the case and would lead just to hyper-masculine and one sided individuals, much more important would be the question which group would be strongest if fighting in groups with primitive weapons, which would involve physical and mental abilities.Originally Posted by havocthief
However, one can hardly answer the question definitely, but one thing is for sure, namely that only two groups are candidates and both are relatively unreduced, with stronger bones and tall: Cromagnids (like Dalofaelid in particular) and leptodolichomorphic robusts (Nordoid-Atlantomediterranid-Iranoid-Nordindid) so the result would be not that different from group selection with the main difference being that heavier forms would still stand a better chance individually and certain abilities would be of no great importance (like intelligence and discipline).
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Good thread
Well, imo the most powerfull forms are without dubt Dinarids and Cromagnids.
Cromagnids for obvious reasons : it's, in absoluteust, strong, and resistent form inside the Europid race.
Dinarids, because they're in the same time tall/slender, but very robust too : imo, their structure rapresent a very good intermediate solution between the robustness of Cromagnids and the elegant progressivness of Atlanto-meds (indded dinarid type originates from both). A physical type we usually call Athletic leptosomic.
Yeah, i'm sure. Dinarids and Cromagnids haven't rivals in Europe : "Nordids/Atlantids" are surely good fighters, but on the long run i think they can't survive against "Dinarids/Cromagnids"
I purposely omitted a group dynamic, because the vagaries of tactical warfare increasingly remove the purity of the physical contest and the fight becomes a question of manoeuvre and terrain.
For example, two old men or two women could "outwit" one young fit man with an elaborate tactic.
Why did I start this topic? I work alongside a Polish man, sub-type is West Baltid. I noticed that he combines a "wide" CM build with the height of a Germanic Englishman and my guess is that he would be a formidable opponent. One of my old bosses was a Brunn Irishman, very tall and with the wide-shouldered CroMag build, physically gigantic. Not only are these types intimidating, they also magically gain respect from nearby humans, especially if they are of average or high intelligence.
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Perhaps we can have two categories:
One-on-one violence
Two isolated sub-types encounter each other in the wilderness and fight to the death with no other weapons.
Group violence
Two differing groups of even numbers fight to the death for a piece of territory. Use of horses and weapons traditional to the culture can be considered.
With out doubt the Cromagnids
Is there any reason to think that a Nordid would have greater endurance and speed? A CM will exert more energy with his heavier limbs.
If the Nordid could stay on his feet and use his longer reach he would have a chance; if the fight degenerates to a floor fight, the CM would surely overpower the Nordid.
Maybe the Nordid also has a more vulnerable/exposed nose and eyes.
Yes, Dinarids being an option too, they are in the same category as the above mentioned, dont know why I forgot them
They have essentially a similar body as Nordoid-Iranoid forms.
Thats certainly true but didnt happened too often in real life since they used weapons most of the time, though hand battles being not that clearly determined neither since not all Nordoids, especially early ones, were that light build one has to say, leptomorphic with more range and less mass, but oftentimes strong muscle markers so the difference in strength might have been not that big.If the Nordid could stay on his feet and use his longer reach he would have a chance; if the fight degenerates to a floor fight, the CM would surely overpower the Nordid.
In group selection its even more different with concerted actions of whole groups on a battlefield, fast manoeuvres with a variety of weapons even in ancient times (most basic would be spear and bow as well as some kind of dagger, sword, axe, club or similar hand weapons).
On a horse a too tall and heavy man might have even less advantages though, which was a fact which favoured Tungids equipped with Indoeuropean weapons. Technology transfer was dangerous in all times...
With heavy equipment a Cromagnid or at least more mesomorphic body type would be superior, with light one a leptomorphic type rather. That was already known in the distant past and oftentimes the men were divided along their physical lines too.
Last edited by Agrippa; Thursday, July 13th, 2006 at 12:38 AM.
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Obviously, the Anglo-Saxon type would have the edge since they combine the brawn of the CM with the agility of the Nordic.
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Of course World's strongest men are Cromagnids, especially baltids ( best of them are in composition with nordids). In definition cormagnids are robust with strong skeleton and muscles. And what about nordids (mediterranids) - gracile is not strength!
http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/wsm/athletes.html
http://www.arnoldexpo.com/2006_strongman.asp
http://www.magnus-samuelsson.net/gfx/temp/wsm01.jpg
http://www.magnus-samuelsson.net/gfx/bio_bild.gif
http://www.bergmanis.lv/
http://www.savickas.lt/?id=1
http://www.tomilotta.com/
http://www.magnus-samuelsson.net/
http://www.juhamatti.com/
http://www.pudzian.pl/
http://www.power-viking.com/
http://www.dymek.pl/
http://www.realdutchpower.nl/nieuwso...inale_2005.htm
etc.
If you mean with strength how much one can lift you are right, but thats not that important for humans as a trait.And what about nordids (mediterranids) - gracile is not strength!
The most versatile body is that of biathletes and decathletes, as well as other sports for which many and both physical and mental abilities being needed. Same goes for elite military units.
Concerning fighting qualities without weapons and 1 on 1, one has to look for kickboxers f.e. and might see a wider variation but usually more often sinewy leptosomic/leptosomic-athletic to athletic-mesomorphic, less often more leptosomic or Pyknoathletic individuals.
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