Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: [SOLVED] c-Vedic Connection: The Danavas, Children of Danu

  1. #1

    Arrow [SOLVED] c-Vedic Connection: The Danavas, Children of Danu

    Of all the great ancient cultures perhaps no two share more parallels than those of the Celtic and Vedic peoples. A deep rooted affinity runs between them, what is present in one is mirrored in the other. Myths, Gods, Goddesses, even fairy tales bear a striking similarity in these archaic reflections of one another.

    This is the first of two articles introducing the connection between Celtic and Vedic religion, society and folklore. In this and the following article the many similarities between the two cultures will be explored in a comparative context. For easy reading I have separated this article into several categories. These are the Druids & the Brahmins, Gods & Goddesses, Danu in Celtic & Vedic Myth, Places of Worship and Celtic & Vedic Fairies.

    Each of these topics only skims the suface and future further research will undoubtly reveal much more into the parallels of these two great cultures. It should be stated that for the sake of not complicating matters most of the Celtic references in this article are Irish. Although Celtic religion and culture varied from country to country this has not been discussed as this article is only an introduction to this field. Though it is worth noting that the various Celtic peoples were not a uniform culture.

    I am going to briefly describe some of the latest findings regarding Indo-European culture. [...]My particular topic is the relationship between the Celtic peoples of Europe, their origin, their relationship with the Vedic culture, and a few other relevant facts and theories.

    The Celtic peoples are defined for the purpose of this article as referring to those people who in the past spoke a language of the Celtic branch of the Indo-European language family and also lived according to the ancient culture considered to be that of the speakers of Celtic as based upon Celtic traditions and stories and on archeology.

    Archeological and linguistic evidence traces them to the Danube river valley in Europe back to around 6000 BCE, and further back to the region of the Aral Sea of Central Eurasia. In Western China in particular, there is much evidence for a culture of people who physically looked like the Celts of Europe until the Turkic Uighur people and others moved into the region about the eighth century.

    Mummies with European features have been found in that region going back to 1500 BCE.The occasional red hair or green eyes found in that and neighboring regions is taken as evidence that these people related to the Celts were absorbed into various people still living in the areas in question, including Xinjiang, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Tibet and Nepal. It is also said that Genghis Khan had red hair and gray eyes; I have even read reports of tribes of red-haired people in the steppes and deserts in or near these regions, from the eighteen hundreds.

    In traditional histories of India like the Puranas and Brahmanas, it is pointed out that in addition to the kingdoms in northern India, there were kingdoms north of the Himalayas with the same culture as in India, which would be in the regions that we are considering for the Celtic peoples. Most important is the famous land of the Uttara Kurus, described as a spiritual paradise north of the Himalayas. Comparison of European Celtic culture with Hindu culture shows a large number of similarities between them. [...]

    Religiously, these red-haired northern Vedic people are known to have some point taken up Buddhism. Certain traditional sources indicate that they learned Buddhism from the Buddha previous to Siddhartha Gautama, who was named Kashyapa. A Kashyapa rishi also appears as one of the oldest Vedic rishis and as associated with northern regions like Kashmir, that was originally called Kashyapa Mira or Kashyapa’s lake. Tibetan literature, I have been told, indicates that they learned their Buddhism, not from India, but from "Shamballa" which is placed exactly where these people lived.

    However, the European Celts clearly practiced, and a few still do, more orthodox Vedic type religions, with similar traditions of chanting, rituals, deity worship, mantra and meditation, with direct parallels to most of the ancient and modern orthodox Hindu sects found in India. As such, it is theorized by some scholars that the two branches split because the Celts maintained the older dharma, whereas the people who stayed in the regions north of the Himalayas accepted Buddhism, perhaps from Kashyapa Buddha.

    One of the hallmarks of Celtic culture is the use of the sacred Ogham (pronounced Oh-wum) alphabet by the Druuids, who are Celtic Brahmins. Many scholars believe that Ogham was only used by the Irish, and not by other Celts. However, this is clearly disproved by many Ogham inscriptions appearing in different places, including France, Iberia (Spain and Portugal), the Danube valley, and the Tocharian regioins.

    Furthermore, inscriptions of Ogham have been found in ancient sites in Japan, some of them megalithic. One Japanese scholar who studies these inscriptions and the sites they are found in believes that the inscriptions indicate that some of the Buddhist monks who brought Buddhism to Japan were Tocharians, or had maintained the use of the sacred writing system of the Tocharians.

    There is also extensive evidence of many sorts that Celts crossed the Atlantic from Europe to North American millennia ago, long before the Viking excursions into North America, who perhaps followed Celtic routes. The evidence is archeological, epigraphical, linguistic, folkloric, among other forms. American Indians with more European type features were reported by early European colonists into the region.

    There is much more that could be told, it will have to wait for another time. I must apologize for any errors or omissions’ this article is an imperfect attempt to review a wide range of relevant information in a limited space. This information has inspired the beginning of a move for unity among Hindus and traditional Celts, as branches of the same culture. Any readers interested in more information in this area are invited to correspond with the author.

    Vedic Origins of the Europeans: The Danavas, Children of Danu

    Note: This article shows how the Proto-European Aryans, like the Celts, were originally a Vedic people called the Danavas or Sudanavas (good Danavas) connected to Vedic kings, sages and yogis.

    Many ancient European peoples, particularly the Celts and Germans, regarded themselves as children of Danu, with Danu meaning the Mother Goddess, who was also, like Sarasvati in the Rig Veda, a river Goddess. The Celts called themselves "Tuatha De Danaan", while the Germans had a similar name. Ancient European river names like the Danube and various rivers called Don in Russia, Scotland, England and France reflect this, as do place names like Den-mark (Danava-Marga), to mention but a few. The Danube which flows to the Black Sea is their most important river and could reflect their eastern origins.

    In fact, the term Danu or Danava (the plural of Danu) appears to form the substratum of Indo-European identity at the base of the Hellenic, Illyro-Venetic, Italo-Celtic, Germanic and Balto-Slavic elements. The northern Greeks were also called Danuni. Therefore, the European Aryans could probably all be called Danavas.

    According to Roman sources, Tacitus in his Annals and Histories, the Germans claimed to be descendants of the Mannus, the son of Tuisto. Tuisto relates to Vedic Tvasthar, the Vedic father-creator Sky God, who is also a name for the father of Manu (RV X.17.1-2). This makes the Rig Vedic people also descendants of Manu, the son of Tvashtar.

    In the Rig Veda, Tvashtar appears as the father of Indra, who fashions his thunderbolt (vajra) for him (RV X.48.3). Yet Indra is sometimes at odds with Tvashtar because is compelled to surpass him (RV III.48.3-4). Elsewhere Tvashtar’s son is Vishvarupa or Vritra, whom Indra kills, cutting off his three heads (RV X.8.8-9), (TS II.4.12, II.5.1). Indra slays the dragon, Vritra, who lays at the foot of the mountain withholding the waters, and releases the seven rivers to flow into the sea. In several instances, Vritra is called Danava, the son of the Goddess Danu who is connected to the sea (RV I.32.9; II.11.10; III.30.8; V.30.4; V.32).

    In the Brahmanas Vishvarupa/Vritra is the son of Danu and Danayu, the names of his mother and father (SB I.6.3.1, 8, 9). Clearly Vritra is Vishvarupa, the son of the God Tvashtar and the Goddess Danu. Danava also means a serpent or a dragon (RV V.32.1-2), which is not only a symbol of wisdom but of power and both Vedic and ancient European lore have their good and bad dragons or serpents.

    In this curious story both Indra and Vritra appear ultimately as brothers because both are sons of Tvashtar. We must also note that Tvashtar fashions the thunderbolt for Indra to slay Vritra (RV I.88.5). Indra and Vritra represent the forces of expansion and contraction or the dualities inherent in each one of us. They are both inherent in Tvashtar and represent the two sides of the Creator or of creation as knowledge and ignorance. As Vritra is also the son of Tvashtar and Danu, Indra must ultimately be a son of Danu as well. Both the Vedic Aryans and the Proto-European Aryans are sons of Tvashtar, who was sometimes not the supreme God but a demiurge that they must go beyond.

    The Danavas in the Puranas (VaP II.7) are the sons of the Rishi Kashyapa, who there assumes the role of Tvashtar as the main father creator. Kashyapa is a great rishi connected to the Himalayas. He is the eighth or central Aditya (Sun God) that does not leave Mount Meru (Taittiriya Aranyaka I.7.20), the fabled world mountain. Kashyapa is associated with Kashmir (Kashyapa Mira or Kashyapa’s lake) and other Himalayan regions (the Vedic lands of Sharyanavat and Arjika, RV IX.113.1-2), which connects the Danavas to the northwest. The Caspian Sea may be named after him as well. The Proto-Europeans, therefore, are the sons of Tvashtar or Kashyapa and Danu, through their son Manu. They are both Manavas and Danavas, as also Aryas.

    In the Rig Veda, Danu like Dasyu refers to inimical people and is generally a term of denigration (RV I.32.9; III.30.8; V.30.4; V.32.1, 4, 7; X.120.6). The Danavas or descendants of Danu are generally enemies of the Vedic people and their Gods. Therefore, just as the Deva-Asura or Arya-Dasyu split is reflected in the split between the Vedic Hindus and the Persians, one can propose that the Deva-Danava split reflects another division in the Vedic people, including that between the Proto-Indian Aryans and the Proto-European Aryans. In this process the term Danu was adopted by the Proto-Europeans and became denigrated by later Vedic people.

    We should also remember that in the Puranas (VaP II.7), as in the Vedas the term Danavas refer to a broad group of peoples, many inimical, but others friendly, as well as various mythical demons. In the Rig Veda, the Danavas are called amanusha or unhuman (RV II.11.10) as opposed to human, Manusha. The Europeans had similar negative beings like the Greek Titans or Celtic Formorii who correspond more to the mythical side of the Danavas as powers of darkness, the underworld or the undersea region like the Vedic Asuras and Rakshasas. Such mythical Danavas can hardly be reduced to the Proto-European Aryans or to any single group of people.

    The Celtic scholar Peter Ellis notes, "Irish epic contains many episodes of the struggle between the Children of Domnu, representing darkness and evil, and the Children of Danu, representing light and good. Moreover, the Children of Domnu are never completely overcome or eradicated from the world. Symbolically, they are the world. The conflict is between the ‘waters of heaven’ and the ‘world.’" The same thing could be said of the Vedic wars of Devas and Danavas or the Puranic/Brahmana wars of Devas and Asuras.

    The Good Danavas (Sudanavas)

    The Maruts in the Puranas (VaP II.6.90-135) are called the sons of Diti, a wife of Kashyapa, who is sometimes equated with Danu. Her children are called the Daityas which term we have found also connected to the Persians, as the name of the river in their original homeland (Vendidad Fargard I.3). While meant to be enemies of Indra, the Maruts came to be his companions and were great Gods in their own right, often referring to the Vedic rishis and yogis. As wind Gods they had control of Prana and other siddhis (occult powers). They are also the sons of Rudra-Shiva called Rudras, much like the Shaivite Yogis of later times. They were great sages (RV VI.49.11), men (manava) with tongues of fire and eyes of the Sun (RV I.89.7). They were free to travel all over the world and were not obstructed by mountains, rivers or seas (RV V.54.9; V.55.9).

    The Rig Veda contains many instances where Danu has a positive meaning indicating abundance or even standing for divine in general. Danucitra, meaning the richness of light, occurs a few times (RV I.174.7; V.59.8). The Maruts are called Jira-danu or plural Jira-danava or quick to give or perhaps fast Danus or fast Gods (RV V.54.9). This term Jiradanu occurs elsewhere as the gift of the Maruts in the last line of most of the hymns of Agastya (RV I.165-169, 171-178, 180-186, 189, 190). Mitra and Varuna are said to be Sripra-danu or easy to give and their many gifts, danuni, are praised (RV VIII.25.5-6). The Ashvins are called lords of Danuna, Danunaspati (RV VIII.8.16). Soma is also called Danuda and Danupinva, giving Danu or overflowing with Danu (RV IX.97.23), connecting Danu with water or with rivers.

    The Maruts are typically called Sudanavas, good to give or good (Su) Danus (RV I.85.10; I.172.1-3; II.34.8; V.41.16; V.52.5; V.53.6; VI.66.5; VIII.20.18, 23). Similarly, the Vishvedevas or universal gods are called Sudanavas (RV VIII.83.6, 8, 9), as are the Adityas (RV VIII.67.16), the Ashvins (RV I.117.10, 24) and Vishnu (RV VIII.24.12). The term also occurs in a hymn to Sarasavati (RV VII.96.4), where Sarasvati is called the friend or companion of the Maruts (Marutsakha; RV 96.2). Most importantly, there is a Goddess called Sudanu Devi (RV V.41.18), which is probably another name for the mother of the Maruts. The Maruts in particular or the Gods in general would therefore be the sons of Sudanu or Sudanavas. This suggests that perhaps Danu, like Asura, was earlier a positive word and meant divine. There was not only a bad Danu but a good or Sudanu. In the Rig Veda the references to the Sudanavas are much more than those to Danava as an inimical term.

    The Maruts are called Sumaya (RV I.88.1), having a good (Su) or divine power of Maya, which stands for magical power, or Mayina (RV V.58.2), possessed of Maya power. Danu is probably, in some respects, a synonym of Maya, a power of abundance but also of illusion. Like the root Ma, the root Da means "to divide" or "to measure". Maya is the power of the Danavas (RV II.11.10). The Danavas, particularly Ahi-Vritra, are portrayed as serpents (RV V.32.8), particularly the serpent who dwells at the foot of the mountain holding back the heavenly waters, whom Indra must slay in order to release the waters. Maya itself is the serpent power.

    The Maruts as wind gods are powers of lightning, which in Vedic as in most ancient thought was considered to be a serpent or a dragon. The Maruts are the good serpents, shining bright like serpents (RV I.171.2). The Maruts help Indra in slaying Vritra and are his main friends and companions. Indra is called Marutvan, or possessed of the Maruts. Their leader is Vishnu (RV V.87), who is called Evaya-Marut. With Rudra (Shiva) as their father and Prishni (Shakti) as their mother, they reflect all the Gods of later Hinduism. As Shiva’s sons they are connected with Skanda, Ganesha and Hanuman.

    Perhaps these Sudanavas or good Danus are the Maruts, who in their travels guided and led many peoples including the Celts and other European followers of Danu. As the sons of Rudra, we note various Rudra like figures such as Cernunos among the Celts, who like Rudra is the lord of the animals and is portrayed in a yoga posture, as on the Gundestrop Cauldron. If the Maruts were responsible for spreading Vedic culture, as I have proposed, they could have called their children, the children of Danu, in a positive sense. We could also argue that the Sudanavas were the Maruts, Druids and other Rishi classes, while the peoples they ruled over, particularly the unruly Kshatriyas or warrior classes could become Danavas in the negative sense when they refused to accept spiritual guidance.

    We know from both Celtic and Vedic texts that the early Aryans, like other ancient people, were always fighting with each other in various local conflicts, particularly for supremacy in their particular region. This led to various divisions and migrations through the centuries, which we cannot always take in a major way, just as the warring princes of India or Ireland remained part of the same culture and continued to intermarry with one another. Therefore, whatever early conflict might have existed between the Proto-European Aryans and those in the interior of India, was just part of various clashes between the different princely families that occurred within these same groups as well. It was forgotten over time.

    The European Aryans had Gods like Zeus, Thor and Jupiter that serve as the counterparts of Indra as the God of heaven, the God of the rains, the thunderbolt and the lightning. Therefore, we cannot read the divide between the Rig Vedic Aryans and the Danavas as a rejection of the God Indra by the Proto-Europeans. In addition, the Proto-European Aryans continue to use the term Deva as divine as in Latin Deus and Greek Theos, unlike the Persians who make Asura mean divine and Deva mean demon. They also know Manu, which the Persians seem to have forgotten and only mention Yima (Yama). Unlike the Persians, who developed an aniconic (anti-image) and almost monotheistic tradition, the Proto-European Aryans maintained a pluralistic tradition, using images, and worshipping many Gods and Goddesses, like the Vedic. This suggests that their division from the Rig Vedic people occurred long before that of the Persians or Iranians, and that they took a larger and older form of the Vedic religion with them.

    Migrations Out of India or Central Asia

    We have noted Danu or Danava as a term for an inimical people or even an anti-god, like Deva and Asura, probably reflects some split in the Aryan peoples. This could be the conflict the Purus, the main Rig Vedic people located on the Sarasvati river near Delhi, and the Druhyus, who were located in the northwest by Afganistan, who fought quite early in the Rig Vedic period.

    Certainly we can only equate the Proto-Europeans with the northwest of India or greater India that extends into Afghanistan and Central Asia. If they can be connected to any group among the five Vedic peoples it must be the Druhyus.

    However, we do find Druhyu kingdoms continuing for some time in India and giving names to regions like Gandhara (Afghanistan) and Aratta (Panjab) connected more with Iranian or Scythian people. Yet, we do note a connection between the Scythians and the Celts, whose Druid priests connect themselves with the Scythians at an early period. The Scythians also maintained a trade from India to Europe that continued for many centuries. In this regard the Proto-Europeans could have been a derivation of Aryan India by migration, cultural diffusion, or what is more likely, a combination of both.

    Though the Druhyus and Proto-Europeans may be connected, it is difficult to confirm particularly as the Europeans were a very different ethnic type (Nordic and Alpine) than most of the Indians and Iranians, who were of the Mediterranean branch of the Caucasian race. T

    However, it is possible that European ethnic types were living in ancient Afghanistan or Central Asia, even Kashmir, where we do find some of these types even today. The evidence of the Tokharians suggests this. The Tokharians (Tusharas) were a people speaking an Indo-European language closer to the European (a kentum-based language), and also demonstrate Nordic or Alpine, blond and red-haired ethnic traits. They lived in the Tarim Basin of western China that dominated the region to the Muslim invasion up to the eighth century AD, by which time they had become Buddhists. They may be related to the European featured mummies found in that area dating back to 1500 BCE7. They were also present in Western China around Langchou in the early centuries BCE. The Tokharian language is possibly related to the Celtic and Italic branches, just as their physical features resemble northern Europeans. The Tarim Basin region was later regarded as the land of the Uttara Kurus and as a land of the gods. So such groups were not always censured as barbarians at the borders but were sometimes honored as highly advanced and spiritual.

    The evidence does not show an Aryan invasion/migration into India in ancient times, certainly not after the Harappan era (c. 3000 BCE) and probably not before. No genetic or skeletal or other hard evidence has been found to prove this. Similarly, we do not find evidence of migration of interior Indic peoples West, the dark-skinned people that were prominent on the subcontinent to the northwest. But if the same ethnic types as the Europeans were present in Western China, Afghanistan or in northwest Iran, like the Fergana Valley (Sogdia), such a migration west would be possible, particularly given their familiarity with horses. In this case the commonality of Indo-European languages would not rest upon a common ethnicity with the interior Indo-Aryans but on a common ethnicity with peripheral Aryans on the northwest of India.

    It is also possible that the European people derived their Aryan culture from the influence of Vedic peoples, probably mainly Druhyus but also Scythians (who might themselves be Druhyus), who migrated to Central Asia and brought their culture to larger groups of Europeans already living in Europe and Central Asia. The Europeans could have picked up an Aryan influence indirectly from the contact with various rishis, princes or merchants, without any significant genetic or familial linkage with Indic peoples. Or some combination may have existed. Such peoples with more Vedic cultures like the Celts could derive mainly from migration, while those others like the Germans might derive mainly from cultural diffusion. In any case, various means of Aryanization existed that can explain the spread of Vedic culture from the Himalayas to Europe, of which actual migration of people from the interior of India need not be the only or even primary factor.

    We do note the names of rivers like the Don, Dneiper, Dneister, Donets and Danube to the north of the Black are largely cognate with Danu. This could reflect such a movement of peoples from West or Central Asia, including migrants originally from regions of greater India and Iran. At the end of the Ice Age, as Europe became warmer, it became a suitable land for agriculture. This would have made it a desirable place of migration for people from the east and the south which were drying up.

    Last edited by Francis_Benson; Wednesday, August 28th, 2002 at 06:14 PM.

  2. #2

    Post Celtic Vedic Connection

    The Druids & the Brahmins

    The easiest of parallels to be drawn between the Celtic and Vedic peoples must be that of the Druids and the Brahmins. The Druids and the Brahmins were both the priests and philosophers of their respective cultures. Both orders of priests were the wise ones of their lands, the seers and teachers, to whom warriors and kings turned for counsel and advice. They were free to wander the lands, as many of India's holy men still do, and, according to Caesar's writings, the Druids were "held with great honour by the people".

    However it appears to be a gross simplification to consider the Druids one homogeneous group whose function was only that of priest or philosopher. There may have been three divisions within the Celtic religious order, that of Bard, Vate and Druid. Historical evidence of this is to be found in the writings of Strabo (40 BCE - 25 CE), 'Among all the tribes, generally speaking, there are three classes of men held in special honour: the Bards the Vates and the Druids.' However I have chosen to leave discussion of the three grades for another time as it would detract from the focus of this particular article.

    The name 'Druid' is considered by some to have originated the mediterranean and the East. The first syllable of the word 'Druid', according to Pliny the Elder (1 CE), is related to the Greek word for the Oak tree, 'drus'. The root of which is 'dr' and it is to be found in several Aryan languages. The second syllable is thought to have originated from the sanskrit word 'vid', meaning 'knowledge', which is also the root of the term 'Vedas'. If this is accurate then the Druids would have been those who possess the 'knowledge of the Oak tree'. The Oak tree in Celtic myth and legend was closely associated with knowledge and wisdom. In old Irish the term 'Druid' is the plural, referring to more than one of the Celtic holy men, whereas the singular is drui. In order to avoid confusion the term 'Druid' in this article will be used to refer to a single Druid and the term 'Druids' to refer to more than one.

    Like the Brahmins, the Druids wore simple clothing. The clothing of the Druids, from what evidence remains, seems to have been a white or undyed hooded robe. It is from the writings of Pliny the Elder that the image of a Druid in his flowing white robes, cutting mistletoe with a golden sickle has now became a popular image of the ancient Druids.

    The clothing of the Druids is rather contrasting when compared to some of the clothing, and jewellery, found in the rest of Celtic culture. Often the textiles worn by the Celts were rich in colour and design, in particular their cloaks. The Celts were also avid wearers of golden jewellery and of their jewellery the torque is probably the most recognisable item worn. Virgil gives a classical description of the Celts in writing, "Golden is their hair, and golden their garb. They are resplendent in their striped cloaks, and their milk-white necks are circled with gold." The torque was a neck ornament of nobility, regularly made of gold, worn by males and if we look at the Gundestrup Cauldron it can also be found around the neck of Cernunnos. The Romans during their invasion of Britain were intrigued by these bold and heavy neck displays. So much so that they awarded their soldiers with them in recognition of acts of bravery.

    The Druids and their daily activities of bathing in rivers is a mirror image of the Vedic Brahmins, who bathe during the first hours of sun rise in rivers such as the Ganges. Tacitus, a Greek historian, commented on the striking similarity of the bathing Druids to the Brahmins, suggesting they were "so emblematic of the brahmins." Morning bathing in rivers remains a daily activity for the Brahmins, and many Hindus, to this very day.

    The Druids and the Brahmins occupied a similar place in the social hierarchy of their cultures. Both formed not only the spiritual elite but also the intellectual caste of society. It was also common for Indian kings (known as 'Rajas') to consult the Brahmins on matters of state, as it was also for Celtic kings (Old Irish - 'Righ'; note the similarity to the Sanskrit) to hold counsel with the Druids. Celtic and Vedic society were hierarchically structured, sharing similar segregated classes of peoples. Celtic culture was a tripartite system based on the three-fold divisions of: the spiritual leaders, the Druids; the ruling/warrior class; and a class of producers which included merchants, hunters and in later periods agricultural producers.

    A similar social structure was employed in Vedic society for thousands of years (India has approximately 10, 000 years of continual history during which Vedic direction seems to have been present for the majority of that time). Commonly referred to as the 'caste system', which in recent years western culture has greatly condemned, Vedic culture is distinguished by four social stratas. The Brahmins were the highly respected priestly class; there also existed a regal/military class (the Kshatriyas); merchants and agriculturalist (the Vaishyas); lastly were the labourers or the untouchables (the Shudras).

    This class (varna) system finds it's sanction in the Rig Veda, book 10, hymn 90:12, and it is also addressed, although less directly, in book 1, 113:6. However there are references to the various castes in other Vedic texts, namely the Yajur Veda and the Artharva Veda. Later in Vedic history, into the period of classical Hinduism, social mobility ceased to exist. It should be noted that in 1947 (CE), Article 17 of the Indian Constitution abolished the practising of untouchability in any form. However many social commentators argue that this has did little to remove the practice.

    As with Celtic society Greek historians also commented and noted down their impressions of Vedic society, recorded during the unsuccessful conquest of India by Alexander the Great. Among their observations was the lack of slavery, the equal right to freedom of all people, and that warfare was restricted to the Kshastriyas (warrior class). The overall impression was one of a society with a strong sense of morality and high ethical values.

    On matters of state and law parallels can be found between the Vedic system of the Laws of Manu and the old Irish system, the Laws of the Fenechus. Before the Laws of Manu, in early Vedic culture, the Brahmins were not purely a hereditary caste. A child from any caste could be initiated into the Brahmin priesthood to begin their 12 years of training. However this upward social mobility later ceased. Upward social mobility was also possible in Celtic culture as a child picked to be a Druid could be from any of the social division groupings. Caesar tells us that the Druids went through 20 years of training. Though this may have more accurately been 19 years as the Druids may have used a 19 year lunar cycle calendar (the Meton cycle).

    The Druids and the Brahmins, probably because of their extensive training, were regarded as being the only ones who could perform certain rites and sacrifices. Diodorus Siculus wrote that the Celts "do not sacrifice or ask favours from the Gods without a Druid present, as they believe sacrifice should be made only by those supposedly skilled in divine communication." The Celts not only held the ritual authority of the Druids in high esteem, the teachings of the Druids were also greatly respected. Men and women, young and old, would ask the Druids to share their wisdom with them on a variety of matters.

    One teaching that we are certain was prominent in Celtic culture was that of the doctrine of transmigration of souls, the process of death and rebirth. This is known from recorded myths and from the Roman and Greek writings. In the Rig Veda there is no clear reference to reincarnation, yet some verses do suggest it. For example, "For thou at first producest for the holy Gods the noblest of all portions, immortality: Thereafter as a gift to men, O Savitar, thou openest existence, life succeeding life" (book 4, 54:2). It is not until the later Vedic texts, for example the Upanishads, that reincarnation is clearly discussed. Interestingly the term for soul (I use the term soul for reasons of simplicity) in Vedic literature is 'atman', whereas the Celtic term for soul is 'anam'. This similarity in language illustrates a unifiying connecton between the two cultures. However I shall discuss language more fully in the second article.

    A difference between the two religious orders that is worth noting is that of the inclusion of women in Druidism and the exclusion of women in Brahminism. For history suggests that while Vedic religion and culture were patriarchal, yet Celtic culture and religion, though not matriarchal, was in no way as male dominated as it's Vedic equivalent. The role of women in Celtic culture and religion seems to have been less constrained and defined, in comparison to Vedic society. Not only were there women Druids but from written accounts it is known that women also fought in battle. Diodorus described Celtic women as being "nearly as big and strong as their husbands and as fierce."

    Due to the cessation of the Druids a vast wealth of knowledge and wisdom has been lost. As part of an oral tradition, like the Brahmins of old, nothing was ever wrote down, all myths, laws and teachings were held to memory. Consequently with the death of the Druid order was also the death of their knowledge and wisdom. Now lost to history, perhaps the best approach in attempting to regain their lost secrets is to turn eastwards, to the Brahmins and the seers, to the Druids of India.

    Gods & Goddesses

    Both Celtic and Vedic cultures were closely entwined around a multifarious pantheon. The Celts had a large pantheon of which about 300 to 400 names are known to us today. Though most of these names appear only once, inscribed on alters or votive objects. Many of these deities were likely to be local forms of pan-Celtic deities. This also stands true for the Vedic pantheon, practically every deity known throughout ancient India had a local name alongside other titles which will have been in more widespread use. Often their function also slightly varied from region to region. It is interesting to note that the Celtic term for the Gods is 'Deuos' and the Vedic term is 'Devas', both terms meaning "Shining Ones".

    A Celtic God that is well known today and who was also known throughout the Celtic world is Lugh (also known as Lug, Llue, Llew and Lugus). Lugh was the chief Celtic solar deity, called Lugh Lamfota meaning "Lug of the Long Arm" in Ireland or Lleu Llaw Gyffes "Lleu of the Dextrous Hand" in Wales. In Irish tradition Lugh is also known as Samildánach, "Skilled in All the Arts". The two weapons that Lugh is associated with are the rod-sling and a magickal spear. However the spear, unlike the rod-sling, possessed a life of it's own. Not only was it alive but it was driven by a thirst for blood. A thirst which was so strong that the only way in which it could be controlled was by resting the spear head in crushed poppy leaves. Lugh was the Divine leader of the Tuatha De Danann, after having proved his abilities to the king, Nuada of the Silver Hand.

    Danu in Celtic & Vedic Myth

    One of the most striking comparisons to be found between the Celtic and Vedic pantheon is that of a Goddess named Danu and the myths surrounding her (also known in Celtic traditions as Don, Dana and possibly also Anu or Ana). A Goddess named Danu appears both in Celtic and Vedic mythology. She features heavily in Celtic mythology as the Mother Goddess (and a river Goddess). She is one of the most ancient known of all Celtic Goddesses, from whom the hierarchy of Gods received it's name of Tuatha De Danann, "Folk of the Goddess Danu". Whereas in Vedic mythology the Goddess Danu gives birth to the seven Danvanas, the dark ones of the ocean. Surrounding the Goddess Danu in each culture's mythology is a similar tale of battle, each of which I shall briefly relate now.

    In the earliest of Celtic documents there is the battle of Moytur fought between the people of the Goddess Danu and the Fomors. The Fomors being Celtic deities of death, darkness and the sea. They were the offspring of "Chaos and Old Night", their name being derived from two Gaelic words meaning "under sea". The Fomers were born from another Mother Goddess called Domnu whose name seems to have signified the abyss or deep sea. The battle between the Fomors and the Tuatha De Danann began at the end of summer and the beginning of winter, on the eve of Samhain (the Celtic festival of the dead).

    During the course of the bloody battle many were killed, including many of the chieftains. Of all the Fomors the deadliest was Balor, with his eye that could slay by merely looking upon an individual. However during the later stages of the war Lugh shouted on him and before Balor could look upon Lugh, Lugh had thrown a magickal stone at Balor. the stone struck Balor, forcing his deadly eye out through the back of his head. On falling to the ground the eye then gazed on many of the Fomors, killing them, and turning the tide of the battle toward the Tuatha De Danann. Eventually the Fomors were driven away and the people of Danu were victorious.

    A similar struggle between opposing forces is to be found in Vedic mythology. This struggle was between the Adityas, the children of the Goddess Aditi, and the Danavas, the children of the Goddess Danu. The Danavas where the antithesis of all that is symbolised by the earth, the sky and the sun. This myth is referred to throughout the Rig Veda and focuses primarily on the God Indra in his victory over the Danavan God Vrtra. In the Rig Veda Vrtra is described as being a limbless dragon and the source of a great drought. When Indra slays him (Vrtra) with his thunder bolt the seven waters are released. It reads in the Rig Veda (Griffith Translation) "He slew the Dragon, then disclosed the waters, and cleft the channels of the mountain torrents." (Rig I.32.1) In the same hymn it later reads "Then humbled was the strength of Vrtra's mother: Indra hath cast his deadly bolt against her. The mother was above, the son under, and like a cow beside her calf lay Danu." (Rig I.32.9)

    Danu in the Vedic myth is bondage and restraint and her son Vrtra is the constrictor. Whereas the Goddess Aditi is the Boundless and the Infinite, and Indra by using his tapas, which is represented by his lightening bolt, becomes the "winner of the light". What is to be found here in an esoteric sense is the cycle of life-giving sacrifice (slaying of Vrtra) and the birth of diversification (realeasing of the waters). It is the macrocosmic struggle between light and dark, order and chaos. While on the microcosmic level it is knowledge over ignorance. In the Celtic myth the Goddess Domnu is regarded as being of "Chaos and Old Night", the abyss, from whence came the Fomors the deities of the dark waters who were conquered by Lug, the Celtic Sun God, and the Tuatha De Danann.

    Again it is the light conquering the darkness. The two myths are fundamentally the same, both tell of the primordial waters, that undifferentiated state of being before the time of creation, and light emerging in triumph over darkness to allow life to flow. This theme seems to be repeated in a rather abstract creation hymn in the Rig Veda, "Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this All was indiscrimated chaos. All that existed then was void and formless: by the great power of Warmth was born that unit" (X.129).

    However the Celtic version of the Indra and Vrtra myth is highly anthropomorphic, far more than that of the Vedic version. This is common in myths that have spread from culture to culture over vast time periods. The original myth is often much more abstract than a version of the same myth to be found in another culture hundreds or even thousands of years later. This then suggests that if these are the same myth the Celtic version is secondary to the primary Vedic version. Further suggesting that the strong possiblity exists of Celtic religion have originated out of India. Yet much of the anthropomorphism may be due to a Christian influence which may have, as with much of Celtic myths and literature, altered them accordingly towards their own perceptions, turning Gods into mortal men.

    There exists another myth that holds a similarity to Vrtra. This Celtic myth is about a race of Gods before the people of Danu called the Partholons, who also fought with the Fomors. The Partholons fought against a Fomor surnamed Cichol (or Cenchos) the Footless. It is with Cichol that comparisons with Vrtra have been drawn because of them both being of fantastic proportions and having a "Footless and handless" (RG 1, 32:7) serpent/dragon appearance.

    Yet what remains unclear in exploring the Danu myths is the Goddess Danu Herself. Between the two myths Danu appears to represent both light and darkness. In the Vedic myth Danu is the mother of darkness, representative of the state of unmanifest being or She may be the mother of the forces of maya. Here Danu is the equivalent of Domnu is the Celtic myth. Whereas in the Celtic version Danu is the opposite, She is the mother of those who symbolise all that is light and lawful, the equivalent of the Vedic Aditi. This confusion surrounding Danu may be the result of migrating Vedic people out of India, travelling westward towards Europe. As with Celtic literature, Vedic literature tells of many disputes between the various peoples of ancient India.

    Therefore the possibility exists that the contrasting Danus are the result of a dispute between the some of the Vedic groups, or possibly a religious schism within Vedic culture. Some of these groups may have migrated westwards, taking with them their particular version of Vedic religion. Which although may contain some differences, is never-the-less fundamentally identical to the rest of early Vedic religion. Also as trade routes became more widely used cultural (including religious) boundaries became less defined, resulting in a degree of cultural fusion. This also would help to account for the spread of Vedic beliefs and deities, yet at the same time may help explain the Danu dichotomy.

    Successful comparisons may also be drawn between Lug and Indra. This is partially made possible by Indra, in addition to his typical associations of rain, thunder and lightning, also having strong solar associations in the Rig Veda. Throughout the Rig Veda there are many hymns to Indra (more than any other God or Goddess) and many of these contain references that associate Indra with the Sun and light. Another parallel between Lug and Indra is that they were both not the original leaders of their respective groups. Lug was given the position of leader of the Tuatha De Danann for thirteen days by Nuada of the Silver Hand. Indra only became the chief of the Vedic Gods and the people's favourite after he had defeated Vrtra. Indra has also been connected with the myth of Tain Bo Cuailgne. Here Indra's symbolic animal representation, the bull, is compared with the Celtic bull of Quelgny. Again what is found is a solar association in both Celtic and Vedic myth.

    Places of Worship

    Some of the most auspicious places of worship for the Celtic and Vedic peoples were rivers. As already mentioned the Celtic Goddess Danu is particularly associated with rivers, she was the "divine waters" falling from heaven. From these waters the great Celtic river, once known as Danuvius, presently known as the Danube, was created. Many rivers in Europe still owe their current name to their associations with the Goddess Danu, such as the Rhone. In both Celtic and Vedic cultures offerings were often placed in rivers and those of the Celts were especially elaborate. The Celts would often offer much of their riches and treasures, sometimes approximately 25% of a tribe's economy would be given to the Gods at any one time.

    In the falling of the Danu river we find a parallel to the an India Goddess and the most holy of rivers in India today, the Ganges. In Puranic mythology the Goddess Ganga's fall to earth was broken by the matted locks of Shiva (known as Rudra in the Vedas), who then released her to fall on the earth. The river which is venerated in the Rig Veda is that of the Sarasvati. Like Danu and Ganga, Sarasvati is the name of a Goddess, as well as a river. However the Sarasvati river is thought to have dried up and it is from that time the Ganges has fulfilled her river role.


    Some astounding ancient structures to be found in the Eurpopean lands of the Celts and in India are those of Dolmens. A dolmen is a shallow chamber that is composed of tall vertical upright stones, forming the walls, and a horizontal stone resting across the top to form a roof. Similar to what is found at Stonehenge, though on a much smaller scale. A feature found in some dolmens in both Europe and India is a small single hole in the back of these stone chambers. What the purpose of these small holes is remains unknown, as does the purpose of the dolmens. Though most interpretations link these holes either with birth or death. Most Celtic researchers seem to agree that these structures were created by a Megalithic people prior to Celtic culture, about whom little is known for certain. Is it possible that these Megalithic people had contact with Indian culture long before the Celts and is this why these constructions are to be found in both eastern and western lands?

    Stonehenge - A lost Vedic connection?

    Another of the sacred dwellings was that of specific areas of woods and groves. According to Tacitus the "Woods and groves are the sacred depositories; and the spot being consecrated to those pious uses, they give to that sacred recess the name of the divinity that fills the place, which is never profaned by the steps of man. The gloom fills every mind with awe; revered at a distance and never seen but with the eye of contemplation." Similarly there are many Indian tales of Brahmans and holy men who lived in forests of which some were especially sacred spaces (see inf. on the Sleshmantaka Forest in 'The Horned God in India & Europe' article). A selection of Vedic texts written after the four main Samhitas (the Rig, Sama, Yajur and Artharva Vedas) are the Aranyakas, meaning 'forest treatise'. Indicating that these were composed in the reclusive depths of the forests.

    Celtic & Vedic Fairies

    Celtic stories are well known for their fairy folk, the little people who inhabit trees and hills. Sometimes they were the source of mischief or misfortune, other times the were advantageous and benevolent. The stories tell us that they delight in music and loved to dance. The Celtic fairies (also called Sidhes) often blended in myth with the Gods and like the Gods the fairies knew magick, fought wars and married amongst themselves.

    In Vedic culture fairies are called yaksas. This is the collective name of the mysterious little Godlings or sprites that inhabit the fields, forests and jungles. Like Celtic fairies the yaksas could be either beneficent or malignant. They were offered propitiation which was meant to keep them in good relations with the village folk. The yaksas seem to have been vegetal Godlings of Indian rural communities, stretching as far back as pre-Vedic times. Although they were rather ignored in the scriptures there are references to them in the Artharva Veda. The yaksas are asked to give freedom from distress (book 11, 6:10) and they are also spoke of in a passage about creation (book 10, 7:38). The yaksas are also referred to in the Artharva Veda as 'itarajanah', meaning the 'other folk'. At some time these Indian fairy folk must have been widespread in Vedic folklore, evident from their spread into Jain and Buddhist mythology. However much folklore has been lost on the yaksas, either it has been absorbed into sectarian deities or suppressed in later Vedic times. Yet some yaksas remain represented in shrines throughout India, an example of which is the yaksas Purnabhadra near Campa, which is described in the Aupaptika Sutra. Situated in a grove underneath an asoka tree is a black, octagonal altar. Carved into the side of this altar were figures of men, bulls, horses, birds, wolves and snakes, perhaps illustrating some myth or legend.

    Supposedly the favourite of the yaksas' locations is in a rural village's sacred tree. Here they would be safe from harms way and it was believed that having the yaksas there was prosperous for the village. Offerings and tiny gifts would be laid at the trunk of the tree, while flower garlands would be hung from the branches. There was also a fertility association with the yaksas in the sacred tree. As were there also associations of treasure buried at the tree roots, again like some of the Celtic fairies.

  3. #3
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 24th, 2010 @ 10:00 PM
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    Thanked in
    0 Posts


    The author uses some of the most interesting arguments for suggesting the common origins of Celtic and Vedic conceptions. That is true that these are real to India as well as the Celt world. But Keltic traditions are diverse and too many as well, but we have a single Vedic source and a tradition which is only repeated and explained in the Aranyakas, Brahamanas and the Upanishads. All these combine together to form the auxiliary codex for the Vedic Aryan heritage.

    Its sheer audacity if anyone claims that one is older than the other, what matters the greatest is that the original Aryan tradition is to be thought of as the common ground of all of these. And there is no better specimen of this than the Rig Veda.

    It surely is realistic, what we need is a look at the Vedic to understand little details which puzzle us, such as why Tyr's hand was bitten off by Loki, and how Indra got a hand made of gold.

    And there is much which can start making sense all over.

  4. #4


    Sarasvati means daughter of the sea(lake). Another name of the devi sarasvati is vaks (speech). Vaks(u) (sarasvati) is same as oxus. Drisdavati is same as Jaks-sar(i)tes. Jaks is a corruption of caksu or aks which both mean eye as does drishda. The one river signifies speech, the other sight. (Relationship with Ik-svaku perhaps?)

Similar Threads

  1. Vedic Messianism and Kali Yuga
    By CordeliaforLear in forum Indo-Germanic Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Tuesday, December 16th, 2008, 02:44 AM
  2. The Vedic Aryan Gods
    By OnionPeeler in forum Indo-Germanic Spirituality
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 03:37 AM
  3. From the Vedic 'Karma Kanda' to Self-Knowledge
    By infoterror in forum Indo-Germanic Spirituality
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Monday, December 6th, 2004, 11:23 PM
  4. The Vedic Fire Sacrifice (Agni)
    By Rahul in forum Indo-Germanic Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Tuesday, June 3rd, 2003, 03:05 PM


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts