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Thread: Everyone on Earth Has Royal Roots

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    Everyone on Earth Has Royal Roots

    Everyone on Earth Has Royal Roots

    By Matt Crenson
    Associated Press
    posted: 01 July 2006
    01:16 pm ET


    Actress Brooke Shields has a pretty impressive pedigree—hanging from her family tree are Catherine de Medici and Lucrezia Borgia, Charlemagne and El Cid, William the Conquerer and King Harold, vanquished by William at the Battle of Hastings. Shields also descends from five popes, a whole mess of early New England settlers, and the royal houses of virtually every European country. She counts renaissance pundit Niccolo Machiavelli and conquistador Hernando Cortes as ancestors.

    What is it about Brooke? Well, nothing—at least genealogically.

    Even without a documented connection to a notable forebear, experts say the odds are virtually 100 percent that every person on Earth is descended from one royal personage or another.

    "Millions of people have provable descents from medieval monarchs,'' said Mark Humphrys, a genealogy enthusiast and professor of computer science at Dublin City University in Ireland. "The number of people with unprovable descents must be massive.''

    By the same token, for every king in a person's family tree there are thousands and thousands of nobodies whose births, deaths and lives went completely unrecorded by history. We'll never know about them, because until recently vital records were a rarity for all but the noble classes.

    It works the other way, too. Anybody who had children more than a few hundred years ago is likely to have millions of descendants today, and quite a few famous ones.

    Take King Edward III, who ruled England during the 14th century and had nine children who survived to adulthood. Among his documented descendants are presidents (George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Zachary Taylor, both Roosevelts), authors (Jane Austen, Lord Byron, Alfred Lord Tennyson, Elizabeth Barrett Browning), generals (Robert E. Lee), scientists (Charles Darwin) and actors (Humphrey Bogart, Audrey Hepburn, Brooke Shields). Some experts estimate that 80 percent of England's present population descends from Edward III.

    A slight twist of fate could have prevented the existence of all of them. In 1312 the close adviser and probable lover of Edward II, Piers Gaveston, was murdered by a group of barons frustrated with their king's ineffectual rule. The next year the beleaguered king produced the son who became Edward III.

    Had Edward II been killed along with Gaveston in 1312—a definite possibility at the time—Edward III would never have been born. He wouldn't have produced the lines of descent that ultimately branched out to include all those presidents, writers and Hollywood stars—not to mention everybody else.

    Of course, the only reason we're talking about Edward III is that history remembers him. For every medieval monarch there are countless long-dead nobodies whose intrigues, peccadilloes and luck have steered the course of history simply by determining where, when and with whom they reproduced.

    The longer ago somebody lived, the more descendants a person is likely to have today. Humphrys estimates that Muhammad, the founder of Islam, appears on the family tree of every person in the Western world.

    Some people have actually tried to establish a documented line between Muhammad, who was born in the 6th century, and the medieval English monarchs, and thus to most if not all people of European descent. Nobody has succeeded yet, but one proposed lineage comes close. Though it runs through several strongly suspicious individuals, the line illustrates how lines of descent can wander down through the centuries, connecting famous figures of the past to most of the people living today.

    The proposed genealogy runs through Muhammad's daughter Fatima. Her husband Ali, also a cousin of Muhammad, is considered by Shiite Muslims the legitimate heir to leadership of Islam.

    Ali and Fatima had a son, al-Hasan, who died in 670. About three centuries later, his ninth great-grandson, Ismail, carried the line to Europe when he became Imam of Seville.

    Many genealogists dispute the connection between al-Hasan and Ismail, claiming that it includes fictional characters specifically invented by medieval genealogists trying to link the Abbadid dynasty, founded by Ismail's son, to Muhammad.

    The Abbadid dynasty was celebrated for making Seville a great cultural center at a time when most of Europe was mired in the Dark Ages. The last emir in that dynasty was supposed to have had a daughter named Zaida, who is said to have changed her name to Isabel upon converting to Christianity and marrying Alfonso VI, king of Castile and Leon.

    Yet there is no good evidence demonstrating that Isabel, who bore one son by Alfonso VI, is the same person as Zaida. So the line between Muhammad and the English monarchs probably breaks again at this point.

    But if you give the Zaida/Isabel story the benefit of the doubt too, the line eventually leads to Isabel's fifth great-granddaughter Maria de Padilla (though it does encounter yet another potentially fictional character in the process).

    Maria married another king of Castile and Leon, Peter the Cruel. Their great-great-granddaughter was Queen Isabel, who funded the voyages of Christopher Columbus. Her daughter Juana married a Hapsburg, and eventually gave rise to a Medici, a Bourbon and long line of Italian princes and dukes, spreading the Mohammedan line of descent all over Europe.

    Finally, 43 generations from Mohammed, you reach an Italian princess named Marina Torlonia.

    Her granddaughter is Brooke Shields.
    http://www.livescience.com/history/ap_royal_roots.html
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Re: Everyone on Earth Has Royal Roots

    Here's a mathematical look at it. So Muhammad is 45 generations back from Brooke Shields. That means that on Muhammad's generation, Ms. Shields has 35,184,372,088,832 ancestors. It is estimated that the population of the world at Muhammad's time was 250,000,000. That means that if there was an even distribution of representation among the ancestral pool, then every person on earth in Muhammad's day would show up over 140,000 times on that generation of Ms. Shields's pedigree.

    Now of course, it is unlikely (though not impossible) that there were many Australoids or Amerindians on Ms. Shields's pedigree at that time, and it is likely that there were more Europeans than Africans and Asians on the list, with the Europeans just getting more than their share of representation (due to inbreeding, of course). But apparently, there were at least some Asians there (if we consider Muhammad and his gang Asian, which we'd have good reason for doing), and it is not at all unlikely that there were a bunch of Africans, too.

    This sort of mathematical problem can make one wonder about the validity of purity of human bloodlines, whether the the purity concerns royalty, race, ethnicity, or anything else. It would seem that purity can only go back so far before it becomes an unreasonable concept. That is, a person could be a pure-blooded descendant of citizens of the Third Reich fairly easily, but it becomes just about impossible to find someone who is a pure-blooded descendant of people living beyond the Rhine and Danube rivers when Tacitus wrote his Germania.

    Of course, this does not mean that we are not Germanic. We obviously are. Furthermore, it is obvious that there are differences between our kind and other kinds of people — differences that unite us and distinguish us from others in the world.

    But it might mean that questions of racial purity might be — over the longterm — irrelevant to our Germanicity, as it were. That is, just because one of your ancestors in generations long past (general you, not you, Zyklop) might be an African, that doesn't necesarily make you any less Germanic. In fact, it's not likely to make you any different from any other Germanic person on earth today.

    Notice though that I say such questions are irrelevant over the longterm. Over the short term they are not. If every unwed Germanic person were to marry only Africans for the next 40 years, our racial makeup would be forever altered in a substantial way, and our unique portion of biodiversity would be lost forever. It is still important to our heritage to consider race. I only mean to point out that articles like this quite rightly indicate that one can fairly easily take the question of racial/ethnic purity to absurd extremes.

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    I already knew I had Charlemagne in my tree.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.

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    Re: Everyone on Earth Has Royal Roots

    Well It's nice to know that there is something special about brooke shields. Nordics must have someone like Odin, Frey or Thor in the bloodline (from what I've read)

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    Odin's in mine!

    I don't know how accurate that is — a lot of Northern European royalty claimed descent from Sigurd, who was descended from Odin, but I thought his line was wiped out after he died.

    If it is accurate, then I suspect everyone of Northern European ancestry can trace their genealogy back to Odin through Sigurd, though. That gives us quite a heritage to live up to!

    I imagine the case of other people would be similar.

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    Great artical very interesting.
    Improvement makes straight roads but the crooked roads without improvment are roads of genius-----
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    So... Brooke Shields is related to Mahomet? Aren't all human beings said to be related to each others, anyway...
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt.

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    I've heard before that I'm related to William the Bastard and King MacBeth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leofric
    descent from Sigurd
    Impossible. I'm 17 and childless...


    .....


    ----------------------------------------------------

    Anyway, thing is, you shouldn't be going about bragging that your greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgreatgrandfather was some monarch...

    1) the genetic similarity is just about ZERO.

    2) THere are millions of people related closer to them than those who usually claim it.


    SO, IMO, it really only counts in lines you can count back in reasonable time (that is like until the 17th century). And for a fact, I am descended off a noble (greatgrandmother), a goldmine owner (greatgreatgreatgrandfather), a poet and painter (greatgrandfather), an author (greatgreatgrandmother), and several others. And these things really count more for me than Charlemagnes and Henry's and Humboldts and Barbarossas through some 8th century bastard line, lol eyes:

    Finally, I was born to two loving parents with common sense, and that counts the most for me.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Re: Star Is Descended From Kings. Of Course, Most People Are

    "the odds are virtually 100 percent that every person on Earth is descended from one royal personage or another."

    Is this person kidding? I'd say its more like 20%, only counting European descendants.
    Ná leathnaigh do bhrat muna féidir leat á chosaint.
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