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Thread: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'?

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    Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    I have certainly been involved with Rune Magic

    Rune Casting is a low art that is usually mediumistic, mystical, lunar, demonic-possessive, and counter-initiatory. If you think that the ancient Aryans in the time of the gods practiced rune casting then you are greatly mistaken. There were no low arts in the time of the Golden Age. Now if you (or anyone else for that matter) do not know what a low art is then that is not my problem. This is a forum for opinions not a classroom.
    Last edited by Moody; Wednesday, July 5th, 2006 at 04:36 PM.

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    Re: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'? [split from 'On the Race-Soul']

    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian
    Rune Casting is a low art that is usually mediumistic, mystical, lunar, demonic-possessive, and counter-initiatory. If you think that the ancient Aryans in the time of the gods practiced rune casting then you are greatly mistaken. There were no low arts in the time of the Golden Age. Now if you (or anyone else for that matter) do not know what a low art is then that is not my problem. This is a forum for opinions not a classroom.
    I do not take "Rune Magic" as tantamount to being "Rune-Casting", although it is true that casting is certainly a feature of Runology.

    However, primarily, I see the Runic Power as being symbolic.

    Therefore I think it quite possible that the "ancient Aryans" would have used similar symbols to those that have come down to us in the shape of the rune-staves.

    If that is true, then the Runes are a high art, since you suggest that those Aryans existed in the "Golden Age" when "there were no low arts".

    So I have never said that the ancient Aryans practised rune-casting, although I wouldn't like to say whether they did or no, as I believe that there is little real evidence as to what the "ancient Aryans" practised in the so-called "Golden Age".

    On what authority do you base your certain knowledge of this Golden Age?

    As to the other points raised:

    "Mediumistic"?
    A medium is said to be a person with the power to communicate with the spirits of the dead or with agents of another world or dimension [cf., psychic].

    While some mediums may employ the rune-staves to enable this procedure, it is hardly the only use made of the staves.
    We know that the ancient Germans used the rune-staves for purposes of divination [i.e., the art or act of foretelling future events or revealing occult knowledge by means of augury], which is not quite the same thing.

    "Mystical"? [Of or having a spiritual reality or import not apparent to the intelligence or sense].
    Again, while some users of the rune-staves may adopt this mystical stance, it is not actually inherent in the runes.

    This is because the runes can be taken on many levels. Purely as symbols, as I have said; or purely as writing, or as code. From the most banal exoteric uses right up to the most esoteric.

    "Lunar"? [Of, involving, caused by, or affecting the moon].
    Presumably your use of this term is due to a Solar/Lunar antithesis that has some meaning to you.
    The runes are over-ridingly masculine in flavour, and while there is a rune-stave named after the Sun, there isn't one named after the moon.
    So I believe that you need to explain how the runes are "lunar" to you [and the Moon was masculine to the Germanic heathens, of course].

    "Demonic-Possessive"?
    Again, this cannot be attributed to the divinatory use of the runes [although it is true that the discoverer of the runes, Odin, did use the shamanic Seidh rites].
    As with all your attributions, the runes themselves are not these things, but they can be used in such ways, but so can all systems of symbology!

    "Counter-Initatory". ['Initiation': a ceremony, ritual, test, or period of instruction with which a new member is admitted to an organisation or office or to knowledge].
    While the ancient Germans may have used the runes on an ad hoc basis and eschewed a priestly caste, to say that they are "counter-initiatory" is false.
    The runes are certainly used within initiatory systems, a modern example being Thorsson's 'Nine Doors of Midgard'.

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=6717

    http://www.angelfire.com/az/diSaturni/ninedoors.html


    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Re: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'? [split from 'On the Race-Soul']

    There is no question whether it is a low art or not, it just is.

    I will not debate these issues with the ignorant. As I wrote in another thread:

    You cannot grasp the basis of these initiations because you are running everything through a filter of the profane "modern dictionary" which gives you a wrong and shallow meaning of every term.

    You furthermore do not know what the lower and higher waters of the abyss are and the difference between them, which understanding is crucial to much of these debates.

    Unfortunately, many people who dabble in this sort of thing do not know what they're doing and become part of the counter-initiation.

    EDIT: Arvo writes on the counter-initiation in Intro to Magic:

    "These (new currents, suggestions and ideological systems) are such as to blur the vision of truth, to falsify values, to favor the emergence of inferior influences, namely of every form of materialism, disorder, and subversion in civilizations."

    EDIT 2: It is perhaps better to not be initiated at all than to be part of a counter-initiation, the latter which destroys for the most part any chance that the person may have at an authentic initiation, and is in the meanwhile destructive and subvertive to the authentic tradition.

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    Re: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'? [split from 'On the Race-Soul']

    @Moody, I couldn't find a link, but I saved this from the Utopian Manifesto sometime back:


    It is our view that life in the form of the flesh is as a punishment or a prison, and therefore, it is our task to overcome our conditions and to improve upon our existence. In order to do so we must follow a certain code or system of values, so that we may not become degenerate and shirk off our duties. For the human to us is simply not good enough. We must go beyond the human into the realm and physique of the Utopian.



    One mustn’t think that by this we mean to give mention to the man of morality. There is a world of difference between morals and virtues. The moral dilemma busies itself on overseeing everything that man can and cannot do. Its focus is on politeness and right or wrong deduced through a means of opinion, especially that of the vox populi, and therefore through personal feelings and weaknesses. Morals are therefore not true.



    There is a simple distinction to be made here where morals tend to slavishly treat everyone as equals, but are rather meaningless rituals in themselves. Hence, opening the door for a lady is considered polite, but perhaps the lady doesn’t want the door opened for her and perhaps one doesn’t wish to worry himself on continuous performance of this silly ritual. It is meaningless in the sense that the simple gesture didn’t make either man or lady any better as regards to intelligence, emotional balance, or any solid trait, nor is it an accurate measure of either the man’s conduct or the woman’s status.



    A further example of morals would be to abstain from negative thoughts about someone or something; yet another is to abstain from eating meat. In the first case, if one doesn’t pass judgment on another then he risks being taken advantage of and of subjecting oneself to harm. Besides, those who claim to always be polite are the worst hypocrites imaginable or they tend to keep a lot of anger and negative emotions inside of them until it erupts.



    In the second case, abstaining from meat so as to not commit violence against animals is ridiculously absurd and ignores the primal law of nature. Moreover, those who do not eat any meat are usually weak and frail, thus requiring supplements, and so this moral leads to the destruction of the human. Worse yet is that those who vow to never commit violence fail to realize that society presents a danger to them.



    With that I think we’ve discussed morals enough to distinguish them from what we shall now focus on, being values, which work towards making the human complete, consisting of truth, idea, and the urge towards a higher law.



    These are the principal virtues of the Utopian: Veneration of the Sacred, Adherence to Order, Hierarchy, and Empire, and the principle of Duty and of the Eternal, Ideal, and Absolute. Also, Courage and Honor are the chief values of the individual.



    Prudence is next, which is synonymous with care and forethought, the exercise of discretion, foresight, and good judgment, and so in direct relation with dignity and respect. It is the first sign of true discipline.



    Prudence is strengthened first with Temperance and then with Fortitude and Righteousness.



    Temperance is self-control and will power. True power, force, and authority come not from violence and maliciousness, which are the spasms of the rotten and flawed beast, but rather from the resolve and determination of the person. It is the charm and charisma of noble personalities, the sense of responsibility, and the stillness, calmness, and serenity of an ordered mind.



    Fortitude is courage, valor, strength, and swiftness, the confidence in everything one does. In this is the loyalty to one’s folk, dedication to one’s goals, the love and devotion for one’s mate, the vigor and stamina of the hero, and the sheer determination and perseverance of any true aspiration.



    Righteousness upholds honor, truth, and wisdom, the integrity of one’s being to serve a higher purpose and be free. It is the wisdom of the ages and the completion of the circle.



    From these building blocks we form the path of Truth, creativity, and the sacredness of the soul, upon which we may tread unto the royal palace of Utopia.





    False Arts & Forbidden Practices

    In the Utopian view, it is considered wrong conduct to perform what we may refer to here as a low art, the worst of which includes fortunetelling by: (a) lot casting (b) palmistry (c) tarot reading (d) material signs or omens (e) numerology (f) language codes (g) kabalistic codes (h) other superstitions.



    Another form of low art is to perform a divination or magical operation by: (a) blood-letting or cutting (b) poisoning (c) inhalation of toxic substances (d) asphyxiation by strangulation (e) other means of self-torment.



    It is of equal wrong to use divination for menial purposes, as for instance, to predict the weather, the outcome of a game, the yield of a crop, or the luck or love-life of a person.



    Even more of a mockery to our Gods are the so-called psychics and fortunetellers who are available for hire, and who claim to speak to the spirits of dead relatives in order to console the living. Theirs is a doctrine of falsehood unparalleled to anything the world has known. What is traditionally an imprint in the Astral Light, the channeling of the memory of the past, present, or future, which is done by the Seer, is by these psychics-for-hire turned into a false theology of spirits “crossing over” from the dead to a “heaven” where they will live forever retaining all of their personalities; such is dishonest, ridiculous, and cowardly. Worse yet, it is a betrayal and utter mockery of the true priesthood.



    Hence, it is perhaps the lowest of arts to practice a false doctrine of salvation through one of the following: (a) faith (b) devotion to deity (c) morality (d) reading of scripture (e) profane love (f) profane ceremonial ritualism.



    In a traditional world, those who practice low arts would be, at the very least, looked down upon and even banished by the honorable judges.





    Spell-Casting



    Spell-Casting is somewhat of a low art that can be easily abused, especially if overdone, but we do find some benefit in this practice, which can be used in the ceremonial sense, especially to enhance feelings between lovers, or as a means for an inner language, or towards another end where transcendence is the goal.



    Where the practitioner has gone wrong, however, is when the ritual becomes involved with superstition and voodoo-like tendencies, or as a means of “bewitchment” of an unsuspecting victim, or to cause upon someone a hex or curse, or to attract love or money. This form of ritualistic behavior is simply immature. When a true mage bewitches or curses someone he or she does not need to act in ceremony but rather upon the actual thing or person by his or her nature alone.





    Demonic Possession



    Demonic possession occurs when a demon or spirit assumes control over the consciousness of the sorcerer. In all legitimate magical circles this is considered to be of the worst insults and humiliations on a person’s character. For there is little difference between a psychosis and losing control of a spirit.



    Thus, it is most important to us that we each take an oath to guard against, under any circumstance, a demon gaining control over our mind or spirit, that is to say, against demonic possession, which is a low practice typical of savages, especially by practitioners of voodoo. In these latter practices we find the odd behavior of speaking in tongues, psychopathic episodes, convulsions, false intelligence, and devotion thereof, as well as all sorts of perversions imaginable. Demonic possession is typical of the doctrines of all monotheistic religions and degenerated shells of more ancient paths, of which we find submission to a god or spiritual force rather than control and dominion of the divine.



    In the sense of woman, who finds her center in the masculine lover, we cannot regard this as being the same or even similar to demonic possession, for the woman is joined to the male force which then participates in the divine by the controlling force of the male over the spiritual.



    In solitary magick, the women of Utopia, and of all valid traditions, control the spirits through the same force and properties of the magical will. Hence, it is just as possible for women to practice magick as it is men, and vice versa.





    Other False Practices



    What passes for life and culture today is insulting to our ancestral heritage, and hence, requires a real cleansing and a radical change in present attitudes. Forbidden practices, which are usually done by degenerate and savage populations, have become widespread, signifying a great and dire need for a purge. It is in this vein that upon return to the traditional world all false arts will be banned; among which are: offerings of meal or drink to the “gods,” the blessing of food and drink, human and animal sacrifice, tattooing, body piercing and mutilation, circumcision, monotheistic prayer, voodoo, daily horoscopes, ghost tales derived from superstition, earthen burial rites, reincarnation, and all false theologies of monotheisms, commercial psychics, and the Buddhist reformations (as opposed to the Pāli canon and Zen).



    Also on this list are all federal, secular, and monotheistic holidays and days or months of remembrance. The foolish act of turning holidays into debacles and ridiculous activities, such as by portrayals of Santa Claus, tree decorating, Easter egg hunts, “trick-or-treating,” parades, and the entire commercialization and almost mandatory character of gift-giving is utter nonsense and reveals only a soulless culture which worships mammon and profane “activities.”



    Similarly, the celebration of birthdays, as if just being born was something of a sacred character, a great achievement, and an out of the ordinary occurrence is ridiculous and self-centered, something that was unheard of in the traditional world.



    Finally, other practices include: stage magic or illusionism, the circus and the “clown,” commercial psychics or fortunetellers-for-hire, the usurpation of higher castes, separation of religion and government, music without a spiritual or folkish character, anti-occult propaganda, and the deification of secular science, psychology, humanism, or charity.

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    Re: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'? [split from 'On the Race-Soul']

    I think Utopian has a good point in that using rune-casting as in fortune-telling for personal salvation is a low art. Of course Tacitus' remarks on the Germans practising divination could be interpreted differently than meek fatalism.

    I think Moody has a good point in that based on what/whose authority is Utopian talking of Aryan practises in the Golden Age?

    Where do we hear of the higher rune-art of the Golden Age?

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    Re: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'? [split from 'On the Race-Soul']

    The concept of "low arts" and what they are have been around for thousands of years. Even Buddha opposed them.

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    Re: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'? [split from 'On the Race-Soul']

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrian
    @Moody, I couldn't find a link, but I saved this
    You shoudn't just assume that I wrote that or that I am actually referring to that particular article. You also shouldn't cut and paste copyrighted material without any reference cited, which isn't even relevant to this debate.

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    Re: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'? [split from 'On the Race-Soul']

    The concept of "low arts" and what they are have been around for thousands of years.
    Can you cite which ones?

    I am well aware of Buddha's stand on this, and he speaks of his opposition against the earlier discussed so called pagan rite of merely worshipping the star for the star. And this stand against low art even more accurately precedes the Buddha in a certain Kshatriya text.

    But naturally Buddha does not discuss rune-casting anywhere.

    I'm interested to hear which texts/beliefs you are referring to?

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    Re: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'? [split from 'On the Race-Soul']

    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian
    You shoudn't just assume that I wrote that or that I am actually referring to that particular article. You also shouldn't cut and paste copyrighted material without any reference cited, which isn't even relevant to this debate.
    I never said you wrote that, I said its taken from the Utopian Manifesto.

    And about the reference, I already said I tried to find a link but couldn't. I did not claim it to be mine; did mention its from the Utopian Manifesto.

    And I thought it relevant to the debate, because it speaks of what is low art and high art.

    More honestly, I think the writings from that Manifesto are soulful, brilliant, and most inspiring - it encourages reflection on many profound matters.

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    Re: Is Rune-Casting a 'Low Art'? [split from 'On the Race-Soul']

    Havamal: The words of the high one.


    The Havamal is part of the Elder or "Poetic" Edda, which is one of the primary written sources for Norse mythology. This excerpt from the W. H. Auden and P. B. Taylor translation of the Havamąl contains Odin's telling of how he obtained the runes and runic power.





    Wounded I hung on a wind-swept gallows
    For nine long nights,
    Pierced by a spear, pledged to Odin,
    Offered, myself to myself
    The wisest know not from whence spring
    The roots of that ancient rood.
    They gave me no bread,
    They gave me no mead,
    I looked down;
    With a loud cry
    I took up runes;
    From that tree I fell.

    Nine lays of power
    I learned from the famous Bolthor, Bestla' s father:
    He poured me a draught of precious mead,
    Mixed with magic Odrerir.

    Waxed and throve well;
    Word from word gave words to me,
    Deed from deed gave deeds to me.

    Runes you will find, and readable staves,
    Very strong staves,
    Very stout staves,
    Staves that Bolthor stained,
    Made by mighty powers,
    Graven by the prophetic God.

    For the Gods by Odin, for the Elves by Dain,
    By Dvalin, too, for the Dwarves,
    By Asvid for the hateful Giants,
    And some I carved myself:
    Thund, before man was made, scratched them,
    Who rose first, fell thereafter.

    Know how to cut them,
    know how to read them,
    Know how to stain them,
    know how to prove them,
    Know how to evoke them,
    know how to score them,
    Know how to send them,
    know how to send them.

    Better not to ask than to over-pledge
    As a gift that demands a gift.
    Better not to send
    Than to slay too many.





    Another translation says:
    Do you know, how to carve them?
    Do you know, how to read them?
    Do you know, how to color them?
    Do you know, how to understand them?
    Do you know, how to pray?
    Do you know, how to sacrifice?1
    Do you know, how to send?2
    Do you know, how to discard?3
    Better not to pray at all, than to sacrifice too much.
    A gift requires a gift in return.
    Better not to send at all, than to counteract too much.
    Thus carved Thund before time,4 when he rose, when he returned5


    (1 a blot, an offer of something to the Gods, and it becomes blessed
    2 rune magic - how to send a runic benediction or curse
    3 how to counteract rune magic
    4 Thund is a name for Odin, meaning "thin", referring to the long time of austerity, hanging in the tree
    5 when he rose after falling down from Yggdrasil, when he returned to the world after his long sacrifice.)


    Runic divination, "runecasting", is not "fortune telling". Runecasting works deeply with the subconscious. The rune pouch with its runic symbols represents the entire universe. As one poses a question, one's entire conscious and unconscious mind is focused toward that question, so that the runelots selected are not truly random selections, but rather choices made by the subconscious.

    Runecraft operates on an ancient form of psychology. Even back in Viking times, there was a remarkable understanding of the human psyche. They recognized "cause and effect", and the interconnectedness of all things. The word to describe this interconnectedness was "wyrd", which was eventually perverted into the modern meaning of "weird". It did not originally mean something unusual or strange. Rather, it referred to the far-reaching effects of that which one does. The concept of "fate" was also not as we know it now. Instead of a helpless predestination, "fate" meant a destiny created by one's earlier actions. Wyrd was pictured as a web, like that of a spider. The symbology is excellent. When the spider steps onto a thread (a path) the vibrations affect the entire web and that which is contained within the web, just as our actions affect our immediate world and those around us, and the actions of others affect our lives.

    When one does a runic reading, one usually addresses a particular issue, and examines the past, the present and the "future", or rather "what will be if one follows the path one appears to be on". The future is always perceived as mutable, changeable. The runic reading is done as an evaluation process, not as fortunetelling. One has an opportunity to look at what has occurred in the past (regarding the issue being questioned), what is occurring right now, and what direction one is headed.

    A runecaster does not see the future. He/she examines cause and effect and points out a likely outcome. It's not very mysterious--although the uninitiated considered it a delving into mystery, much like a patient of a psychiatrist might. It's certainly not "magical" or "demonic." Instead it is a methodology for examining the path one is on and what the effects might be, by making use of one's subconscious (i.e. an "intuitive perception"), unfettered by limited conscious belief systems.

    Dowsing, or "divination" by bent stick or pendulum is similar. It is not supernatural. It is, again, a manifestation of one's subconscious. All "intuitive perception" is such. Nothing "magical" about it, merely a means of awakening one's right-brain.

    From The History and Magic of Rune Stones by Kveldulfr Gundarsson.
    "...Altogether, from first to last, the inscriptions and uses of runestones make it very clear just how closely interwoven the religion, magic, and society of the Norse people were. Not only did these stones bring together the gods, the living, and the dead, each working weal for the others; but they also left us one of our most trustworthy and dearest legacies: the names, deeds, and beliefs of our forebears literally carved in stone, to stand and be read as long as folk know the Northern tongue."

    The ancients never conceived of Rune Casting et. AL. as a low art as seen in the myths of the runes; and, more importantly, the runes themselves:

    http://www.tarahill.com/runes/aett_1.html

    To think as much is a romanticised modern departure.

    The Runes (and Rune casting) is a "high" art exactly because each Rune contains within it something deeply rooted and deeply existential: from high to low.

    The Runes are deeply Volkish, and show of profound psychical complexity.





    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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