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Thread: Islam and Pedophilia

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    Senior Member Pera_Z's Avatar
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    Post Islam and Pedophilia

    PEDOPHILIA : [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object.

    [Scriptural Evidence] Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Sahih Bukhari [the most venerated and authentic Islamic source among the Sunni Moslems]

    Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

    Mongomerry Watts states: "Muhammed seemed to have felt a SPECIAL TENDERNESS towards children."


    Compilation of Ishaq b. Mansur al-Kasaj, ... found in Chapters on Marriage and Divorce, translated by Spectorsky, in the ruling that a woman "IS OF AGE WHEN SHE HAS REACHED HER NINTH YEAR !"

    " Two iraqi men, aged 28 amd 34, who live in lincoln, nebraska, married two iraqi girls, aged 13 and 14, in a private Islamic ceremony attended by family and friends. The two men have been arrested, charged with the sexual assault of a child and could be sentenced to 50 years of prison because the marriage age in nebraska is at least 17 years of age. Their attorney argued that the men didn't know about the law and that they were merely following their religious custom of courtship and marriage. Do they really do such things in today's Iraq? " - Abdul Abdi

    " Dear Abdul, The point I would like to make is that The Muslim world has been exploiting younger girls a quite sometime now in the name of Islam. These are child abuse and it does occurred in a daily basis throughout Islamic world, including your birth place, Somalia. Rich Arab Muslims have been caught on the exit ports of India and Malaysia leaving with clueless, helpless girls clutching onto their dolls and other meager belongings. " -Faisal Hassan.

    "Now you want to clebrate American man made system while ignoring one of the things islamic shariah APPROVES. What a shameful statement?!!. Please note: Islamically, there is NOTHING wrong of marrying fifteen OR LESS as long as they have period and full feminhood signs. Any women reach the age of period can be married if and when she decided to ratify the contract of marraige.. That was the way our Prophet peace upon him got marry Caasha [ Ayesha ] . And that was the way our great Somali women delivered the majority of us. I DON'T THINK YOU WILL DARE TO SAY OUR PROPHET (PBUH) EXPLOITED ON CAASHA. [ Ayesha / Aisha ]" - daud7@aol.com (Daud7)

    Inspired By Islam (What the most famous cleric has to say):

    From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 :

    A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
    [...]
    It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven.

    How it all began ( a long time ago in the isolated deserts of Arabia) :

    Already, when Aisha (the daughter of Abu Bakr, Mohammad's closest friend and unquestioning ally) was about 4-5 years old Muhammad started dreaming of a union with her [Ref: SAHIH BUKHARI, 5:235] and he wasted no time in realizing his dreams, inspite of the fact that object of his dreams was a mere child.Perhaps you want to assume that it is "normal" for a 50+ year old man to dream of marrying a 4-5 old child, and then ACTUALLY ask for her hand at 6?

    Is it normal for an oversexed old man (Muhammad had over 9 wives and concubines) to dream of a union with a 4-5 year old girl?

    Muhammad ( SAW ) was basically oversexed, his sexual relationship with Aisha is a special case, which fits his strong need for a larger latitude to satisfy his sexual urge, as is witnessed by:
    "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven)." [Bukhari.1:268]

    When she was 6, Muhammad asked Abu Bakr, Aisha's father, for her hand. Abu Bakr thought it was improper, because, as he said "I am your brother"; Muhammad brushed aside Abu Bakr's reservation by saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha [ Ref: SAHIH BUKHAR I7:18].

    What happened to " there is no compulsion in matters of religion ?" Anyway what compulsion did Muhhammad need being a prophet his word was law, he restricted men to only four wives when he himself had more than four, that was a convenient exemption for Muhhammad.

    So, Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad, and 3 years later, i.e. when Aisha was 9, the marriage was consumed. And Muhammad was 53 then [SAHIH BUKHARI 5:236,7:64,7:65,7:88] .

    The 3 year waiting period probably had to do with the fact that at that time Aisha had contracted some disease, whereby she, temporarily lost her hair. Aisha was then socially and psychologically still a child as is evidenced by the fact that she was still given to her toys, she was unaware of what was happening around her, and her playmates behave as would the children at present times [Sahih Bukhari 8:151,5:234].

    Aisha became Muhammad's favourite wife. And the sexuality in the relationship was predominant [ SAHIH BUKHARI .1.270, 3:36, 7:6, 3:148, 3:149, 3:150, 7:142, IbnSa'd 1pg165 ]. Later, Aisha was to be called the "mother of believers".

    If you are wandering, yes, the relationship was pedophilic.

    When did the sexual relations between Prophet Mohammad and his child bride begin?

    Unfortunately we do not have any video recordings of such events. Neither can we expect that there would be any explicit statements regarding this. In any case it is certain that she had NOT reached puberty when she moved into Muhammad's house, which in itself, contrary to the prevailing social norms, is a tacit implication that he may indulge in whatever fantasies he may have had when he asked for Aisha's hand. And Muhammad did have fantasies.

    Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:

    Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, BUT the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

    It is, however, very unlikely that Muhammad would have waited for the onset of the menses; or at most it could have been just after the 1st drops. The evidence is necessarily indirect.

    # His strong desire to "graze of the (tree) of which nothing has been eaten before", as his other wives had not been virgins.

    # Menses or fasting do not reduce Muhammad's desire and potency for sex. His nightly rounds to his wives(lastly 12-13) did require more than average potency.

    # New additions to his harem lead to intensive sexual activity, e.g. arrival of Maria lead to increased, initial spurt of sexual activity to the neglect of others .

    # The intervals between prayers are used for quick stands "I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it."

    # Other wives try to please Muhammad by sacrificing their turns in favor of Aisha.

    # During his last fatal illness he cries: "Where will I be tomorrow? Where will I be tomorrow?", seeking Aisha's turn.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prophet Say: Marry Young Virgins

    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17:

    Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

    When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the young virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'

    Silent Children :

    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."

    Where sex is akin to a crime, silence is admission of your guilt. What a corruption of "fitrah" ( human nature).

    What religion condones the destruction of childhood? What are we who daily avow our undying love for Allah to do against a system that ruthlessly oppresses its youngest and brightest ?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What was Aisha's age? I have heard other figures ... (A question also known as: How many of your own sources will you deny ? )
    All the relevant sources (Bukhari, Ibn Hisham, Tabari, Ibn al-Athir, Ibn Sa'd, Ibn Hanbal, etc.) maintain that Aisha was bethroted to Mohammed when she was 6, and the marraige was consummated 3 years later.
    'Mahommad - The Word of Allah' written by Anne-Marie Delcambre. (Anne-Marie Delcambre has a doctorate in 'Islamology', and taught Islamic Civilisation at the Saint Joseph University of Beyrouth in Lebanon). On page 69, it says that he was married to her when she was 9 years old.

    Dates commonly accepted by scholars: Birth Muhammad(570), birth Aisha(614 or 615). Bethrothal(620 or 621), Consummation of marriage(623 or 624). In particular the "consummation" of marriage is said to have taken place after the hidjra in Shawwal 1 or 2. Between 621 and 623 Asiha is said to have contracted a disease whereby she temporarily lost her hair. (Ref 1)

    She could not have been more than 10 years when she went to live in Muhammad's house. The fact that she took her toys with her to her new home indicates that she was psychologically and socially still a child. And the fact that she was allowed to play with DOLLS indicates that she had NOT reached puberty by this time. ("The playing with the dolls and similar images was(is) forbidden, but it was allowed for Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty."Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13). Besides, there is also Aisha's own statement which implies that she had NOT reached puberty when she moved into Muhammad's house[Sahih Bukhari 7.163]. I am sure she would have been able to recount accurately as to when and where she got her first menses. Most girls do remember such events rather accurately. (Refs 2)

    What is "sick" is that Muhammad had started to dream of a union with Aisha already when she was 4-5 years old: "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you...(and) I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen." He was to use a similar tactic when he wanted to marry his step son's wife. A tactic which Aisha later came to understand as fraud, as in: "Aisha said: O Allah's Apostle! I do not see, but, that your Lord hurries in pleasing you." (Refs 2)

    Muhammad wasted no time in realizing what he had been dreaming. Already when Aisha was 6 "The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry." Here it does not seem that Abu Bakr consented to the marriage wholeheartedly.

    REFERENCES (1) Les femmes du Prophete Prof.Magali Morsi, Professor of History, University of Muhammed V, Rabat, Morocco.

    (2) Shahih Bukhari: [1.229] [1.230] [1.231] [1.232] [1.233] [1.258] [1.263] [1.267] [1.270] [1.294] [1.296] [1.298] [1.299] [3.148] [3.149] [3.150] [3.853] [4.736] [5.235] [5.236] [5.731] [7.14] [7.15] [7.57] [7.48] [7.57] [7.64] [7.65] [7.86] [7.88] [7.90] [7.144] [7.163] [8.151] [9.139] [9.140]

    * "And if a woman is sexually mature I see nothing wrong with her marriage in general, with a man of any age... "- A muslim.

    For those Muslims who approve of the above statement ( and hold similar views ): Would you let your daughters go through this ?



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Pedophile ?
    What are the essential features of pedophilia.?

    Professors of psychiatry, Harold I.Kaplan MD and Benjamin J.Sadock MD. of New York University Medical School states the essential features to diagnose pedophilia are:

    1.Identification with and narcissistic investment in immature sexual objects.

    Muhammad's infatuation and relationship with Aisha fits this criterion. And Mohammad was vain too - he liked to use perfume and dye his hair (even as an old man).

    2. Control, domination and seduction of children.

    A slight recalcitrance on the part of his wives was met by intolerant threats like: "if he (Muhammad) divorce you, (Allah) will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins." [K 66.5]

    3. Sexual activity with children is preferential and occur repeatedly.

    Aisha was ever present, right up to his last fatal breath and he preferred spending his nights with her. Aisha became Muhammad's favorites wife. And the sexuality in the relationship was predominant. [Sahih Bukhari 1.270,3:36,7:6,3:148,3:149,3:150,7:142,I bnSa'd 1pg165]



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Is menses necessary indicator of sexual maturity ?
    Sexual maturity is NOT PURELY RELATED TO MENSES as for some peculiar reasons many Muslims have tried to say.

    In the first place having or not having menses is not the criterion for sexual maturity, and thus of pedophilic behaviour. We have cases here, of abducted girls, 12, 13, 14, well past their mens, and yet preferred by pedophiles as sexual objects.

    Besides when Aisha was about 4-5 years old Muhammad started dreaming of a union with her [Sahih Bukhari 5:235]- I am sure Ayesha was not menstruating then . Or do Arab girls menstruate at the age of 4-5 ?

    --------------------
    P.Z.

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    Well in those countries girls get hair on their pussy when they are 8/11 years old, I really dont care about age, a woman is mature for sexual intercourse within the period of her beginning bleeding cycles to the end of fertility in her upper age. within this time period she's ready to get impregnated/embraced and taught, Nature has Spoken.

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    They are sick for raping children, especially having fantasies with 4-5 year olds!! As sick as it may be, it's their own society, as long as they don't bring it here to White countries.

    But they must mature earlier than us, I wasn't physically mature until I was 13..... :o

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    He He cute, well Aryan girls mature later that was a part of my point. and of course some are first ready when they are 15 or maybe 17 years old, but some are maybe in the age of 10 or 11, again its nature and not moral who is the judge here. im not the judge im just embracing nature course im a thoughtful blue eyed creature spawned by nature! I think something is wrong or not wrong necessary but unnatural in wanting to have sexual intercourse with a girl on 4-5 years old also. we have to look back and think how we were mentally & physical that age to fully understand how wrong it would be to do.

    We shall not steal a youth from small virgins.....

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    Really! I can remember being 5 or 6, my life had barely even started. I certainly had no idea about sex or that it even existed...... all I wanted to do was read children's books, play, and try to help doing adult things, like cleaning my room.

    My fiances brother has a 5 year old son, and he is so little. He has blue eyes and light blond hair, he is REALLY cute. But when I think of him, I realize that children that age aren't aware of all the troubles of the world. They shouldn't be getting married! They don't really even understand yet WHAT marriage even is!!! They should be allowed to remain children for as long as they need to.

    Of course, we already KNOW this, as White people, and that's why we have laws about it!


    :x67

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    Originally posted by NordicPower88


    Of course, we already KNOW this, as White people, and that's why we have laws about it!
    I dont care about skin colour, I care about race, and I dont care about laws and I think laws are stupid and useless, I believe in common Aryan sense, with Common Aryan sense would molestations rarely occur.

    I actually know alot about this, I have had a few girlfriends over the years who been abused as young children/teens, So dont think my talk about laws are some sort of excuse contra Common sense, I just dont believe in our system and I dont believe in this Judea moral I see many of you Aryan brothers and sisters still carry around. stop talking about laws and state and start taking things in your own hand. HEIL ODIN.

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    Post Laws...

    Laws, of course, are constructs. But often they have a basis in the character of a people, or at least in their culture.

    I agree with NordicPower. OUR children should be shielded from such perversity until they are well grown and able to decide, mind and body, what is right. (And, hopefully, we will have taught them well.)

    As for the molestors:

    "Traitors and deserters are hanged on trees; cowards, shirkers and perverts are pressed down under a wicker hurdle into the slimy mud of a bog. This distinction in the punishments is based on the idea that offenders against the state should be made a public example of, whereas deeds of shame should be buried out of men's sight." Tacitus, Germania 12

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    Post Re: Laws...

    Originally posted by OnionPeeler
    Laws, of course, are constructs. But often they have a basis in the character of a people, or at least in their culture.
    I disagree, people are not clever or homogenous enough to decide a rule set to live by (with regards for the individual and the extremity in between the indifferent mass)

    Rules made by a state has nothing to do with how people perceive reality.

    I agree with NordicPower. OUR children should be shielded from such perversity until they are well grown and able to decide, mind and body, what is right. (And, hopefully, we will have taught them well.)
    Well some kids seek towards developing sexual patterns them self, that's a proven fact,

    The problem is that CERTAIN adults who could actually take advantage lack of moral judgement as antagonist to before described,

    BTW the ones kidnapping strangers kids are even worse!
    As for the molestors:

    "Traitors and deserters are hanged on trees; cowards, shirkers and perverts are pressed down under a wicker hurdle into the slimy mud of a bog. This distinction in the punishments is based on the idea that offenders against the state should be made a public example of, whereas deeds of shame should be buried out of men's sight." Tacitus, Germania 12
    I dont care what some roman boy had to say about my great north, what seems appropriate should be carried out, it seems to simplicit to make a conform dogma law.

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    Post RE: Laws

    I disagree, people are not clever or homogenous enough to decide a rule set to live by (with regards for the individual and the extremity in between the indifferent mass)

    Rules made by a state has nothing to do with how people perceive reality.
    On the contrary, social regulations occur spontaneously when ever humans are thrown together. The American and Russian frontiers show this repeatedly. Even America's lovely and violent prisons are not the chaotic, dog-eat-dog sub-worlds of popular imagination. They have codes of conduct and loyalty which have nothing to do with the Wardon or state. This is, of course, a general and not Aryan example, but does demonstrate that conduct is auto-negotiated when people are thrown together.

    I dont care what some roman boy had to say about my great north, what seems appropriate should be carried out, it seems to simplicit to make a conform dogma law.
    Contrary to what most believe, Tacitus' Germania was NOT about the Germans - it was about the Romans. Sure, as a hostile but diligent author, he describes the tribes and their customs. His piece is particularly valuable for IE studies. But the REAL goal of Germania is an off-handed criticism of Roman effeminancy, debauchery, social and moral decay. He didn't describe the Romans because his readership was Roman and well aware of their lapse in morals. It is a deliberate (and prophetic) contrast meant to slap Romans in the face.

    There's a hint of anarchism in your post, Hellstar. I can respect that you see no common Aryan 'character', born of blood or culture. "Aryan", as you say, is not just skin colour. It's attitude. It just happens that whites possess this character more deeply and broadly than other people.

    Left to nature, this character surfaces again and again through history. Of course, the opposite is also true. Again and again it is suppressed as Tacitus or our modern press will tell you. Some 'philosophers' today even take individualism to the point of arguing that legal consent should be extended to children.

    The Code of the Cowboy in my part of the world, for example, was not born of governmental assertion. Instead, it bubbled to the surface and quite agrees with, what I believe, is innate character. It readily echos the Code of Knighthood from a thousand years before or the warrior ethos described by Tacitus.

    If such recurrence is mere coincidence, then we'd be forced to conclude there is no Aryan character.

    Before you invoke Nietzschean individualism and immoralism, understand that Nietzsche is not a philosopher 'for the masses.' And he was not 'against' morals for the bulk of society. His very own 'master mentality' is, itself, a 'noble' code which -- no suprise -- overlaps and confirms that innate character.

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    Laws are the Creation of an Ordered and Civilised Society of Human Beings. They are a Social Construct which allow the Progress of Societies in every possible aspect. When Laws do not serve this aim they should be removed as the purpose of Laws is Order and Discipline, for a Progressing Society. The Morality of a People decide which Laws are introduced, enforced, and removed. I do not believe in Moral Relativism, to me it is not a sign of advancement, it is a sign of decay and Moral Degeneracy.

    In the case being questioned here, I believe that the relationship between Men and Women does not only necessitate a Natural Sexual Maturity, it also requires one becoming a Man or a Woman Mentally and Socially, and those which do not achieve this including Physically Mature Adolescents should not meddle in Sexual Relationships at an early age, which could be of possible detriment for their relationship with Sex. I hate the exposure Sex gets in our Society it removes the value of Love which should be associated with Sex, it has been lowered to another Materialistic relationship aimed at Individual Pleasure. This World is so Rotten.

    Also would having Sex with a 12/13 year old girl (unless you are close to that age) be considered correct in your conscience if a girl has reached her sexual maturity?

    I find the cases posted above regarding Islam Morally Degenerate, it is Pedophilia and no Aryan should find it acceptable. I never liked Muslims, if what is written above is true I like them even less now.

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