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Thread: Europid-like Features Among the Japanese are not of Europid Inspiration

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    Arrow Europid-like Features Among the Japanese are not of Europid Inspiration

    White Nationalists and Supremacists find it convenient to consider the Ainus to be a part of the Europid race, a lot of people have adopted this view, including some fellow Skadi members. Genetically they are as distinct from Europid Peoples as much as the average Japanese individual, genetic research made the Ainu people detects no Europid influence whatsoever.

    This is most likely a result from the original-Ainud and/or Polynesid admixture.



    See here how "Europid-looking" Polynesids and Ainuds can be, these Types are actually pre-historic Mongolid + Australid/Melanesid Hybrids.

    Polynesid Lower-right (picture)

    Ainuid lower-right (picture)

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    Re: Europid-like features among the Japanese is not of Europid inspiration.

    Ok, some late-night SoC drivel from me.

    I do not believe that the Ainu bear any relation to Europids other than that which they also share with Mongolids. Nor do I believe that proper (Holocene) Polynesid/Australid admixture is of much relevance, as the aboriginal Japanese (whence came the Jomon) predate the divergence of Polynesians, and the frequent comparison between the Ainu and Australids is somewhat misinformed (unless one is actually addressing Polynesids as AustralOids). The Ainu probably reflect the early migration of post-generalized Pleistocene sapiens from SE Asia to this region. My bet is that their morphology recalls the first (SE Asian) stage of a presumed two-stage "transition" which, in completion, came to characterize Mongolids, the second stage being the "proper Mongolid" morphological adaptation to cold (mongolization, if you will) which was experienced by a segment of this early "stage one" or Proto-Mongolid population which had migrated even further north, probably into Siberia, the descendants of which were later to re-populate all of E Asia (and most of SE Asia), marginalizing the Veddid and remnant "stage one" populations.*

    Polynesids would seem to be essentially "stage one" as well, in some regions having experienced later influences from "stage two" fully evolved (Neo-)Mongolids, and of course from Melanesids, who have their own curious specializations on a generalized Pleistocene from, as well as from Australids, who are themselves not far removed from the initial generalized Pleistocene sapientes ("proto-everything"). Amerindians may have been essentially "stage one" with "stage two" accretions, initially not dissimilar from the ancestors of the Ainu, and SE Asian Paleo-Mongolids are probably a blend of "stage one" Proto-Mongolids with "stage two" Neo-Mongolids and varying amounts of Veddid, Negritid and Melanesid.

    Phh. The ravings of a madman.

    *That sentence was ~80 words. Sorry.

    ---

    For the sake of illustration:



    Last edited by vingul; Monday, June 26th, 2006 at 12:35 PM.

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    AW: Europid-like features among the Japanese is not of Europid inspiration.

    I would put it that way:
    Archaic sapiens in Eurasia - Northern belt of archaic Cromagnoids, split up into the Proto-Europoid and Proto-Mongoloid with the final differentiation during the last Ice Age. After that like you made your graph, with Ainuids and some (archaic) Indianid and South East Asian forms splitting off earlier, before the LGM, followed by the more modern Indianids (various waves) and Palaemongolids (various waves, some being closer to Sinoid already), finally the Neomongolid core developed which consists primarily of Tungo-Sibirid and Sinoid. So I can just largely agree with your graph.

    The Proto-Europoids developed into the modern Europid Cromagnoids finally with all their derivates.
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    Re: AW: Europid-like features among the Japanese is not of Europid inspiration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Archaic sapiens in Eurasia - Northern belt of archaic Cromagnoids, split up into the Proto-Europoid and Proto-Mongoloid with the final differentiation during the last Ice Age.
    Agreed, however I chose to omit Europids (and Negrids) from the account, as the thread is concerned with Ainuids, Polynesids and Mongolids.

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    AW: Re: AW: Europid-like features among the Japanese is not of Europid inspiration.

    Quote Originally Posted by vingul
    Agreed, however I chose to omit Europids (and Negrids) from the account, as the thread is concerned with Ainuids, Polynesids and Mongolids.
    Absolutely, but it explains the similarities in morphology probably, because they might have had a time in which they "wandered together" through Eurasia and/or where influenced by the same-similar environmental pressures. So one doesnt have to wonder that those of the Eastern branch which were not in the radius of the final "Mongolid formation" (and its exactly about those of the Eastern Asian branch which being rather on the fringes of the continent or outside of the formation during the LGM at least) show certain similarities to Europoids, especially more archaic ones.
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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Europid-like features among the Japanese is not of Europid inspiration.

    Exactly, Proto-Europids would be a fitting term for this generalized set of populations, were it not for the fact that they are not likely to evolve further in a Europiform manner.

    What are your thoughts on the idea that northern Proto-Europids did not evolve cold-adaptations similar to true Mongolids on account of early use of insulating clothing? Does it have any merit, in your opinion?

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    AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Europid-like features among the Japanese is not of Europid inspiration.

    Quote Originally Posted by vingul
    Exactly, Proto-Europids would be a fitting term for this generalized set of populations, were it not for the fact that they are not likely to evolve further in a Europiform manner.

    What are your thoughts on the idea that northern Proto-Europids did not evolve cold-adaptations similar to true Mongolids on account of early use of insulating clothing? Does it have any merit, in your opinion?
    Well, cultural adaptations can balance environmental pressures out to a large degree, thats for sure, but honestly I dont know enough about the whole archaeological record on that and think that we dont know enough to be conclusive on such "details".
    However, whats for sure is that there were many factors involved in the creation of the Mongolid race, but the cold adaptation being of major importance. The region in which they developed was in various respects much more extreme during the Ice Age in particular than f.e. Europe. The mobility and available energy was more limited most likely and at the same time the temperature higher, so "a physical high performance solution with just, in comparison, rather minor physical accomodations to the extreme cold" option was not present. F.e. non-Borealised variants can survive in North Eastern Europe without too much problems, though certain disadvantages - so it depends whether the better performance can balance the lack of physical accomodation to the cold out, but the same can't be said for the area of the Inuits in the Arctic.
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    Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Europid-like features among the Japanese is not of Europid inspiration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Well, cultural adaptations can balance environmental pressures out to a large degree, thats for sure, but honestly I dont know enough about the whole archaeological record on that and think that we dont know enough to be conclusive on such "details".
    However, whats for sure is that there were many factors involved in the creation of the Mongolid race, but the cold adaptation being of major importance. The region in which they developed was in various respects much more extreme during the Ice Age in particular than f.e. Europe. The mobility and available energy was more limited most likely and at the same time the temperature higher, so "a physical high performance solution with just, in comparison, rather minor physical accomodations to the extreme cold" option was not present. F.e. non-Borealised variants can survive in North Eastern Europe without too much problems, though certain disadvantages - so it depends whether the better performance can balance the lack of physical accomodation to the cold out, but the same can't be said for the area of the Inuits in the Arctic.
    I appreciate your answer. We have much to gain from the continuing exhumation of Pleistocene skeletal material from Eurasia. Hope it won't take forever to establish a more precise picture.

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