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Thread: Scotland Versus England

  1. #21
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    My sisters both married Englishmen, we have the best rammies at the Scotland V England football games.


    Quote Originally Posted by OneFakeSaxon View Post
    No dis-respect to Tabitha but 1) she's Scottish and 2) female, so maybe she doesn't appreciate the macho football rivalry. The English would never or rarely support a Welsh team, but that does not impair the affection and interest (and trading harmless jokes) for the Welsh on behalf of the English.

    That's obviously rubbish outside of formal armed conflict and border raids. Millions of Scots & English co-exist on a peaceful basis across the British Isles.

    To assume otherwise is just a fantasy existing in the heads of partisan Irish Americans or Scottish Americans or whatever, wallowing in self-righteousness. Just an unhealthy self-identity which exists in a perpetual cycle of victimhood and rabble-rousing, topped off with cheesy cultural icons (Guinness / leprechauns / itchy jumpers etc etc etc).

    Genuinely, the last thing these Americans (fortunately a minority of the great Americans) want is for Scotland & Ireland to exist as normal nations with no outstanding issues, because then these plastic nationalists would have nothing to whinge about.
    Not at all Milesian but the casualty department of our biggest hospital that night was full of Englishmen who had been attacked by Scots, we are known for our violent subculture and I do think that the First Minister should lead by example.

    I respect & admire those Scots who favour independence, they have strong arguments and good hearts but it's just not an opinion which I share.


    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian View Post

    So if they don't support England there must be something wrong with them?
    Interesting theory


    Yes, perhaps he should be legally obliged to upon penalty of death for High Treason to Her Majesty's government?


    Scottish and English people have assaulted each other for millenia.
    This incident was condemnable but I can't say it's either new or suprising



    Maybe because they don't like England or what it stands for?
    In any case, is it really that important to England that they see others supporting them? If so, one wonders who really has the "lack of confidence" here
    Last edited by Oswiu; Saturday, November 11th, 2006 at 06:00 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Scotland Versus England

    I am with Tabitha and One Fake Saxon.

    There are some Scottish Nationalists who I respect. However the sort of nonsense we are debating here is morons who are really just anti-British without realising why.

    British Nationalists are also opposed to the British State. The enemy is the City of London generally and the Bank of England in particular.

    If the Scottish people really wanted full independence then they would also want to have a separate economy. If the Scottish National Party is to be seen as the expression of Scottish national feeling, then it is a very funny one, with its pro-EU liberal economic agenda.

    The Conservatives have always encouraged Scots to be patriotic and maintain their own national institutions.

    Many of the memorials to William Wallace and other figures were put up around Scotland's cities by Unionists. Scottish people have been free to be patriotic within the context of the Union.

    I believe that the union is important for strategic reasons.

    I am ostensibly 'English' with Scottish, English and Austrian ancestry and when I occassionally encounter anti-English sentiment, it generally comes from Scottish Leftists or people who simply have no idea what the real issues are and have watched 'Braveheart'.

    One of the things which has kept Scotland distinct from England is Scottish Freemasonry which is separate from English Freemasonry.

    Scotland expresses herself through her culture and national institutions and the most pro-Scottish political party in Scotland, apart fom the BNP is the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party.

    The SNP, who want independence believe that the solution to Scotland's falling birthrate is to encourage more immigration.

  3. #23
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    Re: Scotland Versus England

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFakeSaxon View Post
    No dis-respect to Tabitha but 1) she's Scottish
    I don't understand your point here

    and 2) female, so maybe she doesn't appreciate the macho football rivalry.
    Maybe she doesn't appreciate macho rivalry, but I give her enough credit to assume she can understand why a Scottish person might choose not to support the English national team, unless she's been living in isolation her entire life. I don't seriously believe anyone could go through life in Scotland failing to understand that, regardless of whether they agree with it or not.

    The English would never or rarely support a Welsh team, but that does not impair the affection and interest (and trading harmless jokes) for the Welsh on behalf of the English.
    Hmmm....

    That's obviously rubbish outside of formal armed conflict and border raids.
    For that statement to be true, English and Scots would have to have never been involved in fights with each other outside of warfare. I can tell you that is incorrect even if I base it solely on my last trip abroad to a popular tourist resort which resulted in a small riot between Scots and English holidaymakers

    Millions of Scots & English co-exist on a peaceful basis across the British Isles.
    The joys of multiculturalism

    To assume otherwise is just a fantasy existing in the heads of partisan Irish Americans or Scottish Americans or whatever, wallowing in self-righteousness. Just an unhealthy self-identity which exists in a perpetual cycle of victimhood and rabble-rousing, topped off with cheesy cultural icons (Guinness / leprechauns / itchy jumpers etc etc etc).
    I couldn't honestly tell you what goes on in the heads of Irish-Americans or Scottish Americans. I'm not sure what the patronising remarks about Irish culture is either. Is this the same affection you mentioned above about the Welsh? Perhaps as an Englishman you don't realise it, but Welsh, Scots and Irish are almost daily subjected to such gently mocking & patronising tones masquerading under the titles of "affection".
    Most don't appreciate it either

    Genuinely, the last thing these Americans (fortunately a minority of the great Americans) want is for Scotland & Ireland to exist as normal nations with no outstanding issues, because then these plastic nationalists would have nothing to whinge about.
    Let's give the Americans a break for a moment, and instead talk about the people involved in this whole "British" farce instead.

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    Re: Scotland Versus England

    Milesian,


    Perhaps I should have been more succint in my post - it was one of my first on Skadi - however what I don't understand is the venom and violence that goes along with the anti-English sentiment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian View Post
    I don't understand your point here


    Maybe she doesn't appreciate macho rivalry, but I give her enough credit to assume she can understand why a Scottish person might choose not to support the English national team, unless she's been living in isolation her entire life. I don't seriously believe anyone could go through life in Scotland failing to understand that, regardless of whether they agree with it or not.


    Hmmm....


    For that statement to be true, English and Scots would have to have never been involved in fights with each other outside of warfare. I can tell you that is incorrect even if I base it solely on my last trip abroad to a popular tourist resort which resulted in a small riot between Scots and English holidaymakers


    The joys of multiculturalism


    I couldn't honestly tell you what goes on in the heads of Irish-Americans or Scottish Americans. I'm not sure what the patronising remarks about Irish culture is either. Is this the same affection you mentioned above about the Welsh? Perhaps as an Englishman you don't realise it, but Welsh, Scots and Irish are almost daily subjected to such gently mocking & patronising tones masquerading under the titles of "affection".
    Most don't appreciate it either


    Let's give the Americans a break for a moment, and instead talk about the people involved in this whole "British" farce instead.

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    Re: Scotland Versus England

    It's silly bickering like this, it makes me think we need to create and emphasise a great feeling of Native British Identity, similiar to that of Austria-Germany or Scandinavia. Afterall, We share the same Island.
    Tired

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    Re: Scotland Versus England

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabitha View Post
    Not at all Milesian but the casualty department of our biggest hospital that night was full of Englishmen who had been attacked by Scots,
    That's really is something indeed. Mine wasn't, I'm pretty sure, but if you want me to confirm that then I can easily do so (my friend's wife is a nurse there)

    we are known for our violent subculture
    Scotland doesn't have a problem with casuals or football hooligans anywhere near to the same extent as England does. Scottish football fans don't get banned by UEFA from travelling abroad.

    and I do think that the First Minister should lead by example.
    Why? Was he out assaulting English people too?

    I respect & admire those Scots who favour independence, they have strong arguments and good hearts but it's just not an opinion which I share.
    That's fine. But let's not try and insinuate there is something wrong with them in that case.

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    Re: Scotland Versus England

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortis_In_Arduis View Post
    I am with Tabitha and One Fake Saxon.

    There are some Scottish Nationalists who I respect. However the sort of nonsense we are debating here is morons who are really just anti-British without realising why.
    So being opposed to the concept of Britain makes one a moron?


    British Nationalists are also opposed to the British State. The enemy is the City of London generally and the Bank of England in particular.
    The history of Britain begins with Jewish bankers in Amsterdam being allowed to set up the Bank of England and the City of London corporation in support for King William's army usurping the throne.
    You can't dissacoiate the two.


    The Conservatives have always encouraged Scots to be patriotic and maintain their own national institutions.
    Yes, so long as it's all done safely within the context of the Union

    Many of the memorials to William Wallace and other figures were put up around Scotland's cities by Unionists. Scottish people have been free to be patriotic within the context of the Union.
    See above

    I believe that the union is important for strategic reasons.
    Agreed, but we are probably thinking along different lines here

    I am ostensibly 'English' with Scottish, English and Austrian ancestry ......

    One of the things which has kept Scotland distinct from England is Scottish Freemasonry which is separate from English Freemasonry.
    Yes, I suspected as much. you're remarks here have confirmed my suspicions, thank you.


    The SNP, who want independence believe that the solution to Scotland's falling birthrate is to encourage more immigration.
    The SNP are as Nationaist as the BNP - ie. they aren't

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    AW: Re: Scotland Versus England

    Quote Originally Posted by Thruthheim View Post
    It's silly bickering like this, it makes me think we need to create and emphasise a great feeling of Native British Identity, similiar to that of Austria-Germany or Scandinavia.
    Austria is a politically detached part of Germany with the FRG-Austrian state border being no ethnic border at all. That is not really equal to the overarching super-national Scandinavian identity the Northern Germanics have.

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    Re: Scotland Versus England

    Well, I really hadn't intended to do that.

    And I'm quite sure that you can work out what I meant by wishing that our First Minister lead by example in a week full of attacks on the English by Scots.


    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian View Post
    Why? Was he out assaulting English people too?


    That's fine. But let's not try and insinuate there is something wrong with them in that case.

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    Re: Scotland Versus England

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian View Post
    I can tell you that is incorrect even if I base it solely on my last trip abroad to a popular tourist resort which resulted in a small riot between Scots and English holidaymakers
    So it's incorrect based on one anecdote in a boozed-up holiday resort. In day to day life the English and Scots are not at each other's throats.

    Perhaps as an Englishman you don't realise it, but Welsh, Scots and Irish are almost daily subjected to such gently mocking & patronising tones masquerading under the titles of "affection".
    Most don't appreciate it either
    They should put up with it. If they are offended, then that is good, they could grow tougher skins.

    Let's give the Americans a break for a moment, and instead talk about the people involved in this whole "British" farce instead.
    Not a farce, just a political arrangement. The Scottish nationalists I've heard dismiss the UK then immediately throw their hats in the EU ring. Nothing is sacrosanct about political ties.

    Personally I am sceptical about a "United Kingdom". I think separation for each constituent nation is better on a number of grounds. This definitely includes independence for Ulster Protestants if they want it, and the Cornish also.

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