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Thread: What Are the Differences Between the Dinarid and the Armenid Type?

  1. #51
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    Thank you very much!
    As I know, for some anthropologists Armenid and Armenoid are different,
    Armenid is Armenoid sub-type, and Armenoid is Taurid subtype, but what is Taurid and can you show me exemples?
    And for other anthropologists Armenoid is Dinarid+MEd, or Alpin+Dinarid, or even Alpinized Iranid .... So I'm little confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ar-Man-En View Post
    Thank you very much!
    As I know, for some anthropologists Armenid and Armenoid are different,
    Armenid is Armenoid sub-type, and Armenoid is Taurid subtype, but what is Taurid and can you show me exemples?
    And for other anthropologists Armenoid is Dinarid+MEd, or Alpin+Dinarid, or even Alpinized Iranid .... So I'm little confused.
    Well, thats just a question of the used suffix-system. Simplified:
    -id = typical
    -oid = similar, belongs to, somewhat mixed-deviating etc.

    So for the concrete example:
    An Anadolid or Mtebid variant can be considered ArmenOID, but the typical Armenid variant is more strictly defined.

    Taurid is just the category for all those types derived from mountain forms with a short head, usually longer nose and face, etc., so all Dinaroids and Armenoids together.

    The same standards can be applied to other forms: F.e. Negrid = Negrids in the narrower sense, Negroid = including mixed and Europiform variants, like the Aethiopids in particular etc.
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    Thank you very much Bruder!
    So and for conclusion, Armenid is Dinarized Iranid or it's just a part of anthropologist only who claim that ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ar-Man-En View Post
    Thank you very much Bruder!
    So and for conclusion, Armenid is Dinarized Iranid or it's just a part of anthropologist only who claim that ?
    Well, lets put it that way: IranOID variants are older, Armenoids are younger, they both show certain genetic similarities and live largely side by side, just in different habitats with different ways of living, but regional overlap.

    So its just reasonable to assume that Armenoids in general are mostly "Armenized"/brachycephalised etc. Iranoids and Eastmediterranids. Some Iranoid strains might have been of a more protomorphic/primitive character which contributed to the Armenid type (Proto-Iranoid) in my opinion, and Alpino-Cromagnoid influences played in too, especially for the reduced, yet broader and more disharmonious build standard type, which is common in the Fertile Crescent area and especially among Jews.

    In the end, Armenoids were originally the specialisation of Northern Near Easterners to the mountainous herder-warrior way of life. This product I call the "progressive Armenoid" or Northern Armenoid and Caucasid subtype, they are still more common in the higher regions of the Caucasus and are with their adaptive strategy similar to Dinarids.

    Later then those forms moved South, into the Fertile Crescent, mixed with Eastmediterranids in Anatolia (Anadolid subtype) among which the "Dinarisation" prevailed, also because the habitat of Anatolia changed drastically in that time (no classic farming any more, like the Mediterranids practised it before, only the coastal areas are still largely Mediterranid) and Alpinoid further South, producing this reduced form of Armenid already mentioned, a type for farmers and urban populations, common among Armenians, Syrians and Jews, in ancient times related to the people of Churri/Hurrians, Urartians and Chatti.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurrians

    Typically their original languages point to the Caucasian origin.

    They were later divided between Indoeuropeans (Hittites, Mitanni, Armenians, Kurds, Medes, Persians etc.), Semits (Jews, Arabs etc.) and Turkic people (Turks). So the Armenid type, common among Jews today, was originally no Semit racial type, but the local farmer and urban people's descendents Semits assimilated, similar to what happened by the Indoeuropeans in Armenia.
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    Thank you again.

    So you relate Armenoid type with Hurro-Urartians and if I understood it correctly, originally he's not Ind-European(aryan) and semitic type?
    What's concerning jews, I think they are the most mixed (nation), if we can actually call them a nation... and I don't know if we can consider that they have some racial origins!? I think Ashkenazi jews have a strong Khazaro-turanid influences!
    Turks were mongoloid-turanoid, that's obvious that real turks live today in the areas of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc.

    And I didn't see so much armenians of armeniod type, the most of them are pontid, alpinid, dinarid and even nordids (I found that here : http://nordwave.net/armenia-division/ ) Armenoids that I saw was generally Syrians, or Lebanese .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ar-Man-En View Post
    Thank you again.

    So you relate Armenoid type with Hurro-Urartians and if I understood it correctly, originally he's not Ind-European(aryan) and semitic type?
    I relate them to Caucasians originally and the Southern expansion being strongly associated with speakers of related languages which appear in history as Hurrians and Urartians etc.

    They are originally non-Indoeuropean and non-Semitic, but a group on their own, closest related to todays Caucasian people ethnolinguistic wise.

    What's concerning jews, I think they are the most mixed (nation), if we can actually call them a nation... and I don't know if we can consider that they have some racial origins!? I think Ashkenazi jews have a strong Khazaro-turanid influences!
    Well, I haven't seen any good evidence for the majority of Ashkenazim, for sure not for the Sephardim or Oriental Jews etc.

    The Jewish core group was already mixed in the Near East, but predominantely Armenid-Arabid, though Mediterranid, Asian Alpinoid and even Nordoid influences were present too.

    The Ashkenazi Jews of today are largely a mixture out of those Near Easterners with Europeans, by race and genes, just their population has some ethnoracial characteristics which are somehow more unique due to inbreeding and selection.

    Turks were mongoloid-turanoid, that's obvious that real turks live today in the areas of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc.
    The original Turks lived further East even, because those countries of Central Asia you mentioned were in fact Indoeuropean and Europid lands, to the core. Today they are mixed in various degrees between Europid (Nordo-Cromagnoid, Iranid, Armenoid and Pamirid) and Mongolid (primarily Tungid and Tungo-Sibirid intermediates).

    And I didn't see so much armenians of armeniod type, the most of them are pontid, alpinid, dinarid and even nordids (I found that here : http://nordwave.net/armenia-division/ ) Armenoids that I saw was generally Syrians, or Lebanese .
    Those Armenids of the Fertile Crescent are more typical, deviate stronger from the Dinaroids of Europe than the Caucasian ones.

    Yet Armenians have a lot of Armenoid and even Armenid in the narrower sense, though many other variants appear as well, including Nordoids, like it has to be expected for a larger ethnic group.
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    I agree with you, just a few more questions,if I don't annoy you

    What is pamirid?

    Hittits were not armeniod, if it's originally hurro-urartean type .?!

    You know about Armenian or Anatolian hypothesis ? Both are claiming that IE people born in Anatolia and Armenian Highland, so in this case where was happening the formation of armenoid type (Iranid is IE type? If yes what Nation was in origins of that type, I heard that Iranian tribes was pred. nordoids )?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ar-Man-En View Post
    I agree with you, just a few more questions,if I don't annoy you

    What is pamirid?
    The "Europid part" of Turanid proper, an essentially Dinaro-Alpinoid form common in Tajiks in particular.

    Hittits were not armeniod, if it's originally hurro-urartean type .?!
    Hittites were mixed people with different elements among them, but they had a significant Armenoid influence, especially in their Southern vasalls from different ethnic groups.

    You know about Armenian or Anatolian hypothesis ? Both are claiming that IE people born in Anatolia and Armenian Highland, so in this case where was happening the formation of armenoid type (Iranid is IE type? If yes what Nation was in origins of that type, I heard that Iranian tribes was pred. nordoids )?
    Well, the Anatolian hypothesis would only make sense if assuming that the Neolithics from Western Anatolia which came to Europe were already "Proto-Indoeuropeans" and just spread their language and culture.

    Thats very, very unlikely considering the evidence and the fact, that most IE can be traced back to European Neolithic and Bronze Age cultures, especially Corded/Schnurkeramik and Ockergrab/Kurgan culture. These two however were no direct, unchanged Neolithics from Anatolia, they had a very different culture, closer to what we have to expect from Indoeuropeans if analysing the language and its carriers, the culture of the people which appear in the historical evidence.

    So at best, Anatolian farmers contributed to the formation of the PIE groups in South Eastern, Central and Eastern Europe-Central Asia. There are many hints and proves for IE migrations, so this theory of unchanged continuity of Neolithic farmers in Anatolia from PIE to Hittites seems to be very unlikely, for most of the other people, including Iranians & Col its impossible, because they can be directly related to the horse-warriors and cattle-herders from Eastern Europe and Central Asia...
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    Armenoids are less rugged and smaller than Dinarics with a more pinched forehead. I wonder how much this has to do with hybrid origins as opposed to nutrition and environment.

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