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Thread: What Are the Differences Between the Dinarid and the Armenid Type?

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    AW: Re: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    Quote Originally Posted by SineNomine View Post
    I am curious, what happens when a subrace like the Dinarid mixes with the Pontid? For instance, the Pontid is tall, gracile and leptomorphic/leptoprosopic (hence long-faced). According to my classification, I am a Dinarid/Pontid; however, other than my Dinaric leptorrhinic, slightly convex nose, my face is predominantly Pontid, being longer and with a positive, but not particularly strong chin, and I am tall and leptomorphic. The Pontid is a Med type, and therefore prone to leptorrhiny and slight convexity (the Dinarid being more extreme in both cases) - is it easy to then detect Dinarid influences? Both Nordids and Meds have these tendencies when it comes to nasal structure - how then can Dinarid influences be seen, since both types are also long-nosed and potentially convex?
    Well, on the long run something similar to a "Keltic Nordic" variant for the Pontid - Dinarid spectrum should come up if the Pontid part is dominant in a group. In mixed individuals a lot of combinations are thinkable, especially if considering that a pure Pontid-Dinarid mix (50 : 50) will be rather the exception and not forgetting that traits can be dominant or recessive too.
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    Re: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    So ultimately a brand new type will arise sharing traits from both I suppose. The Keltic Nordid (or Noric individuals) are still noticeably Dinarid, but you can tell that the type is something of its own. Wouldn't a mix between Pontid and Dinarid create a type similar to the Keltic Nordid in phenotypical terms too? I assume the type would be long-nosed, fair skinned, tall and dark haired.

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    Re: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    Quote Originally Posted by SineNomine View Post
    So ultimately a brand new type will arise sharing traits from both I suppose. The Keltic Nordid (or Noric individuals) are still noticeably Dinarid, but you can tell that the type is something of its own. Wouldn't a mix between Pontid and Dinarid create a type similar to the Keltic Nordid in phenotypical terms too? I assume the type would be long-nosed, fair skinned, tall and dark haired.
    That would be something similar to the West Pyrenaic Atlanto-Mediterranid, or Baskid, which resembles much to the Keltic-Nordid, being its North-Mediterranid equivalent.

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    AW: Re: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaico View Post
    That would be something similar to the West Pyrenaic Atlanto-Mediterranid, or Baskid, which resembles much to the Keltic-Nordid, being its North-Mediterranid equivalent.
    Absolutely.

    And because I was asked on Stirpes about what I consider being Norid and "Keltic Nordic", post this here too:
    A Keltic Nordic result of Nordid-Dinarid mixture being essentially Nordid, with just more facial relief, usually a lower skull and being darker, whereas a Norid is just a light and somewhat Nordiform/Nordoid influenced Dinarid with most typically Dinarid traits.

    So a Keltic Nordic can be described as a Dinaroid influenced Nordid, Norid as a Nordoid influenced or even just light Dinarid - the other subtype of Dinarids beside the typical Adriatid variant. Norids are typically quite light pigmented in skin, hair and eye color, have a short and high skull, whereas the Keltics have different shades of pigmentation, a long and (at least in comparison as well as relative) low skull.

    Examples from Coon with which I can agree with:


    FIG. 4 (2 views, photo C. W. Dupertuis). The Iron Age Nordic type is particularly
    important in Ireland, which was never strongly invaded by Germanic-speaking Hallstatt Nordics. This individual, a man from County Clare, with his sloping forehead, aquiline nose, and brown hair, is an excellent example.



    FIG. 3 (2 views). An East Anglian from Ipswich, Suffolk. More of the English belong to this locally older Keltic Iron Age type, which came from southwestern Germany with the Kelts and is differentiated by a lower cranial vault, a more sloping forehead, and greater nasal prominence. The hair color is more frequently brown than light
    blond.

    http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnet.../texts/p29.htm



    FIG. 3 (3 views). A Noric Pole from Galicia. This type is characteristic of many of the southern and western Poles.

    http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnet.../texts/p35.htm



    FIG. 4 (2 views). A blond Gheg from Zadrima; a classic Noric.

    http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnet.../texts/p39.htm

    Compare with a classic Nordid variants:


    FIG. 2 (2 views). An Englishman from the neighborhood of London, who belongs to exactly the same central Nordic type. In England this type is largely of Anglo-Saxon and Danish inspiration.



    FIG. 1 (3 views). A Finn of predominantly Corded type; note the ash-blond hair and
    grayish eyes, the great head length, and extremely low cephalic index. In head and
    face proportions a resemblance is seen to the Corded-like Irano-Afghan sub-type, a re-
    semblance which is enhanced if pigmentation differences are ignored Both metrically
    and morphologically this individual is seen to be fully Mediterranean; there is no evi-
    dence of Upper Palaeolithic admixture.

    And classic (Adriatid) Dinarid:



    FIG. 3 (2 views). An exaggeratedly tall, lean, and long-faced Dinaric from Klementi,
    the northernmost bairak of the tribe of Malsia ë Madhë. Northern Albania is probably
    the most highly Dinaricized country in Europe.

    Clear is the progressive character of the whole spectrum from Nordid to Dinarid.
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    Re: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    When speaking purely in terms of nasal length, at what point does a Med or Nordid begin showing dinaricisation? Both types are already leptorrhines, with tendencies towards convexity. Is there perhaps a nasal index for this? Or is it only when a sum of features appears that dinaricisation can be detected?

    Another thing, although slightly unrelated - what are the defining traits of alpinisation?

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    AW: Re: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    Quote Originally Posted by SineNomine View Post
    When speaking purely in terms of nasal length, at what point does a Med or Nordid begin showing dinaricisation? Both types are already leptorrhines, with tendencies towards convexity. Is there perhaps a nasal index for this? Or is it only when a sum of features appears that dinaricisation can be detected?

    Another thing, although slightly unrelated - what are the defining traits of alpinisation?
    Nasal index is secondary for that, its the absolute length of the nose and midface which is more important and even if its about that trait Nordids and Dinarids overlap. However, Nordids have usually a nose which doesnt go downward as often as the Dinarid one and being narrower (absolute). So its rather the combination of traits and I would speak of real Dinarisation mainly in the case of chances of the cranium - if those are fully absent, f.e. a long-narrow-low skull with a projecting occiput, I wouldnt speak of Dinarisation at all, only in the case of exaggerated Dinarid facial morphology in rather exceptional cases, otherwise just about Dinaroid influence. Just think about many Nordid, Atlantomediterranid, Iranid and Nordindid variants which have similar facial traits (especially nasal shape) to some truly Dinarid variants without having any similarities otherwise beside being classic, progressive and leptomorphic Europids. They partly dont have any other relations to Dinarids at all and Dinarisation without changes on the skull makes no sense. There were different opinions on that, but most better physical anthropologists would have agreed on that. A typical Dinarid must always at least approach the short-high planoccipital headform.

    Similar to Alpinid admixture and Alpinisation, an individual which has not the typical signs of Alpinisation might have Alpinoid influences in morphology, but being not Alpinised in the crucial traits, going in the typical direction of the specialisation.

    Alpinisation means reduction, pyknomorphisation and infantilisation. Compare this as well as many other threads:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=48678
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    Re: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    Quote Originally Posted by SineNomine View Post
    Let's not deviate too much - could someone answer the questions raised in my post?

    PS: Off-topic, I have a question for Nicola and Ivanushka: is Matanis a Russian surname? A friend of mine claims it is, but it sounds different to every Russian surname I have ever heard.
    Matanis sounds rather Lithuanian

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    Re: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola_Canadian View Post
    Matanis sounds rather Lithuanian
    Or Latvian. But could be a Greek as well. Greeks also have names which end with -is, for example , I knew one Russified Greek girl with surname Lesburidis.

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    Re: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    Onefakesaxon knows the truth


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    AW: What are the differences between the Dinarid and the Armenid type?

    Why then you think Nicola_Canadian used the word dinaroid?

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