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Thread: Does Haplogroup J2 indicate Semitic Ancestry?

  1. #11
    New Member Zinnamongirl's Avatar
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    Cool mtDNa Hogwash!

    I just received my mtDNA reading as a birthday present, and find it is all just a bunch of expensive Hogwash. First off it proclaims my ancestor crawled out of the primordial ooze, located around the Red Sea / Fertile Crescent (Duh, didn't pretty much everybody?) then immediately migrated to areas of the Mediterranean, and on to all parts of Europe. So, tell me something that isn't the most common of knowledge! Not to mention these test really need to be made more user friendly. As is, one would have to have a PhD in biology, genetics and microbiology or whatever, to understand the tests and graphs.

    Basically, what the test tells me is the obvious. I'm European. Like I didn't know that, as I was born and raised in Germany, to White Croatian, Swiss, Austrian / Italian parents. I'm everybody and or essentially nobody. I would have done better with a past life reading. At least then, I could have been Moses, Cleopatra, or at the very least one of her hand maidens ... or something.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMediterranid View Post
    Would they just show up because this haplotype is closely related to the Semites and Sephardic/Ashkenazi Jews?
    It would show up because Mediterranids are closely related to the Semites and vice-versa. Basically J2 is the phenotype for Afro-Asiatic Mediterranids and can be found in Europe and outside of Europe, it can be found in the Afro-Asiatic tainted southernmost parts of Europe such as Iberia, Italy, Corsica, The Balkans and so on.

    Basically if you are J2 it means for sure that you are going to be:

    1. Small.

    2. Frail.

    3. Dark Haired.

    4. Mediterranid.

    J2, just like J1 is associated with Afro-Asiatics.


    Some examplars:

    J1, 19th century Bedouin:




    J2, Khalil Gibran:








    Khalil Gibran may be Arab, but he doesn't look any different than your average Iberian (for obvious historical reasons) and would fall under the Ibero-Insular category.

  3. #13
    New Member Zinnamongirl's Avatar
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    Anything but frail

    Osama bin Laden is very tall! I know countless of every kind of person you named, who are tall, strong and anything but frail! Diet has much more to do with how strong, smart or healthy a human being turns out, than genetics. For instance, Chinese and Japanese children are suddenly outgrowing their parents by a good 4 or more inches, due to adopting a western diet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rassenhygieniker View Post
    It would show up because Mediterranids are closely related to the Semites and vice-versa. Basically J2 is the phenotype for Afro-Asiatic Mediterranids and can be found in Europe and outside of Europe, it can be found in the Afro-Asiatic tainted southernmost parts of Europe such as Iberia, Italy, Corsica, The Balkans and so on.

    Basically if you are J2 it means for sure that you are going to be:

    1. Small.

    2. Frail.

    3. Dark Haired.

    4. Mediterranid.

    J2, just like J1 is associated with Afro-Asiatics.


    Some examplars:

    J1, 19th century Bedouin:




    J2, Khalil Gibran:








    Khalil Gibran may be Arab, but he doesn't look any different than your average Iberian (for obvious historical reasons) and would fall under the Ibero-Insular category.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnamongirl View Post
    Osama bin Laden is very tall!
    That is because Osama Bin Laden is not J2 and is obviously mixed with negroid, like most Yemenites.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnamongirl View Post
    I know countless of every kind of person you named, who are tall, strong and anything but frail!
    Well J2 is associated with subrace of Mediterranean individuals who are straight nosed, short and are physically not robust. Same thing for I1 Nordic individuals which is associated with straight nosed, tall and not physically robust individuals. By the way J1 individuals are taller than J2 individuals.

    Of course I am talking about proper individuals, I1 individual who may have Unreduced Cromagnoid ancestry (such as Trønders) may be more physically robust same as J2 individual who may have Taurid ancestry may have a hooked nose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnamongirl View Post
    Diet has much more to do with how strong, smart or healthy a human being turns out, than genetics.
    I have to disagree, it is racial predisposition. A J2 mediterranean may eat as much as he wants and whatever he wants throughout his growth he will not grow any taller than 5' 3"-5' 5" and he will not become fat, it won't make his head longer or broader and so on. If it were all up to the diet, there would be no need for different Haplotypes and Genotypes.



    • Chapter I

      REMARKS ON THE TERM 'RACE,' ON THE DETERMINATION OF FIVE EUROPEAN RACES, AND ON SKULL MEASUREMENT

      The Mediterranean race: short, long-headed, narrow-faced, with less prominent chin; narrow nose with high bridge; soft, smooth or curly brown or black hair; deep-sunk brown eyes; brownish skin. - THE RACIAL ELEMENTS OF EUROPEAN HISTORY, Hans F. K. Günther (1927)




    • Chapter II Part Two

      THE BODILY CHARACTERISTICS OF THE EUROPEAN RACES

      THE MEDITERRANEAN RACE

      THE Mediterranean race is short, gracefully slender, with an average height for the men of about 1.60 metres. The Mediterranean figure has the effect of a smaller Nordic one, the relative length of the legs is even more pronounced than in the Nordic race. On no account, therefore, should the Mediterranean race be represented as squat or thick-set; it is graceful and slender down to every detail of its build; and the slender effect is hardly lessened by the broad hips of the Mediterranean woman.

      The shape of the head is the same as in the Nordic race; the Mediterranean race is, too, long-headed and narrow-faced, and has the back of the head projecting over the nape. The forehead, however, compared with the Nordic forehead, is perhaps relatively somewhat lower, and its backward slope is not so great nor the surface so flat, but somewhat more rounded towards the sides, so that it goes backward in a vault rather than in a plane. The nose is relatively somewhat shorter, and is seldom so sharply drawn as is often seen in the Nordic race; but it is likewise generally straight, or slightly curved outwards. The chin is less prominent and more rounded. The resulting profile has a softer look than the Nordic. If the Nordic race inclines to a sharp, bold profile, the Mediterranean inclines to a pleasant, agreeable, as it were more womanly, profile.

      The fleshy parts show perhaps more of an inclination than in the Nordic race to a slight fullness; the mouth is perhaps somewhat broader; the lips are fuller, slightly more puffed out; and the nose is perhaps rather more fleshy. The skin is brownish, and gives the impression of a warm suppleness. The blood hardly shows through, so that red cheeks are not usual; and the lips are bluish, cherry-coloured, rather than red. The texture of the hair is sometimes smooth or sleek, but oftener curly; each hair is thin and soft. The colouring is brown or black and has no golden undertone, such as is still found with very dark blond hair. The dark eyebrows are perhaps somewhat thicker than in the Nordic race. The beard is brown or black, and fairly thick.

      The eyes are brown to brown-black, and likewise have a warm colour-tone. The expression of the eyes is lively, bright, and merry. - THE RACIAL ELEMENTS OF EUROPEAN HISTORY, Hans F. K. Günther (1927)





    • Chapter III

      THE MENTAL CHARACTERISTICS OF THE EUROPEAN RACES

      (b) THE MEDITERRANEAN RACE

      This race is painted by all observers as passionate and excitable. It has less depth of mind and is easily aroused, and easily reconciled; loves strong, vivid colours, and vivid impressions of all kinds; tends to take a deep, often childish interest in its fellow-men (which must not, however, be long strained); takes great joy in the spoken word and in pleasing and lively movements; and is inclined to find suppleness and craft particularly worthy of interest and praise. With all these qualities the Mediterranean man looks on life with merry eyes more as a play, whereas the Nordic lives it more as a set task. The Mediterranean man is eloquent, often a skilled orator, not seldom he is (at least for the Nordic observer) talkative and somewhat superficial. His spirits are quick to rise, and quick to sink; he is very ready, too, to fall into hot strife, and forgives sooner than the men of other races; and with all this his lively feeling of honour does not forsake him, nor his ready self-expression in word and gesture. The mental energies are all turned rather outwards, in the Nordic man inwards.

      The Mediterranean man is not very hard-working, often he is lazy; he likes to enjoy life the more. He is not very drawn to money-making; anyhow, he does not exert himself much over this. He has as little of the Nordic energy as he has of the industry and activity of the Alpine race; hence we have the lower dolichocephaly, that is, the stronger brachycephaly (Hither Asiatic and Alpine) of the upper classes in southern Italy.

      The Mediterranean man is very strongly swayed by the sexual life, at least he is not so continent as the Nordic (who need not therefore feel the sexual urge any the less). It is with the sexual that the lively Mediterranean wit makes play (the esprit gaulois shows a great deal of this), and sex is the object of his passionateness, of his feeling for colour schemes in dress, and of his quick rather than deep artistic gifts.

      A disposition to cruelty and animal torture, a not unfrequent inclination to Sadism may perhaps stand in relation to the stronger sexuality.
      Taking de Lapouge's assertion that it is the spirit of Protestantism which is to be seen in the Nordic man -- a connexion pointed to on the whole by a comparison of the distribution of race and of faith in Europe -- we might say that Protestantism is bound to be something quite foreign to the Mediterranean, with his love of stirring oratory, of gesture, of bright colours, and of show.

      The faith of the Mediterranean man is not so deeply rooted in conscience as with the Nordic; it belongs rather to the senses, is an expression of the joy of living and of the goodness of heart so often characterizing him. This goodness of heart shows itself first and foremost in the Mediterranean man in his love (which to the Nordic seems often exaggerated) for his children, and in general in the deep affection of the family life.

      In public life the Mediterranean man shows but a slight sense of order and law, and a want of forethought. He is quickly roused to opposition, and is ever wishing for change; the south of France, predominantly Mediterranean, eagerly votes 'radical.' Mediterranean ferment (il voit rouge) stands opposed to Nordic restraint in social life also. Thus there is a tendency to lawless (anarchical) conditions, to secret plotting (Camorra and Maffia in Italy, Sinn Fein in Ireland, some of the features of Italian and French freemasonry), and to an adventurous life of robbery.

      The predominantly Mediterranean south of Italy (with Sicily and Sardinia) is characterized by a higher percentage of deeds of violence and murder; and Niceforo significantly calls a district in Sardinia, where the Mediterranean element is markedly predominant, the criminal district (zona delinquente). - THE RACIAL ELEMENTS OF EUROPEAN HISTORY, Hans F. K. Günther (1927)

  5. #15
    New Member Zinnamongirl's Avatar
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    I beg to differ

    I beg to differ; nutrition, environment and education has everything to do with how ANY living creature grows, develops and thrives. A carrot or a beefsteak tomato may make for a nice picture on a seed package, but try planting it in poor soil, not watering it, and stamping on what little manages to grow - and see what you get.

    So, how do YOU know Osama bin Laden is haplo negroid bla bla bla? Have you actually seen his lab results?

    Do you even know yours? Give it a shot, you might be surprised.

    Never mind lab results, what about history, and all the royal houses and lineages? I just Googled Suleiman the Magnificent (got Octo Mom ) and WOW, what a hodgepodge of a lineage!

    The world at large was once ruled by Dynasties, Empires, Monarchies, and Royal houses. (I'm not educating you) They mixed and matched (bred) for the sake of expansions, conquests, kingdom mergers, and land acquisitions - rather than race, creed or Haplo bla bla bla. I think THEY are the reason we have Haplo bla bla bla, in the first place.

    IMO things are as they should be. We are at the mercy of Mother Earth / Nature and she subjects the human race to mutations, through ever constant migration/s, in search for sustenance, I-Pods, shelter and survival = evolution.

    Thank you, for your contribution. I find your input very articulate, helpful, informative and amusing.

    I just received my test results back, and am totally confused. Its such a far cry from what I expected, that I suspect my roommates Haplo bla bla bla's got mixed in - with my sample. Or the mail carrier, and anyone else en-route to the lab. I would tell my mother, but the shock of knowing we are really descended from purple spotted Martians, would probably kill her.

    Thank you, again.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnamongirl View Post
    So, how do YOU know Osama bin Laden is haplo negroid bla bla bla? Have you actually seen his lab results?
    No but J2 individuals are not 6 feet tall and don't look Arabo-Negrid like Bin Laden does.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnamongirl View Post
    I just received my test results back, and am totally confused. Its such a far cry from what I expected, that I suspect my roommates Haplo bla bla bla's got mixed in - with my sample. Or the mail carrier, and anyone else en-route to the lab. I would tell my mother, but the shock of knowing we are really descended from purple spotted Martians, would probably kill her.
    If you are female as your profile says, then you shouldn't be J2 since J2 is an Y-chromosome and females do not have Y-chromosomes (males are XY while females are XX).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosome

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplotype

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype

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    23andMe has an awkward tendancy to mix up peoples results. Always contact them if something does not seem to be right. If your test is with 23andMe or not.

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    Göran Burenhult

    Thank you for the links. You are correct, I'm female. What would the corresponding J be, for mtDNA? I was under the impression that J, stands for Jasmine, and within the mtDNA Haplogrouping, would mean Jewish.

    Maybe Osama bin Laden is descended from the Moors, who occupied Spain and Portugal. One of his ancestors may have mixed with the Invading Barbarians.

    I'm just reading Göran Burenhult RE: Archaeological digs in Jutland. It appears they were very tall, even during the early bronze age. I know a few people with similar ancestry, they are very tall with blue and green eyes, but have the same features, and are as darkly complected as Osama bin Laden.

    It appears I may spring from the lost continent of Atlantis, at least according to Edgar Cayce, for my grouping.


    Take care, and thanks again.









    Quote Originally Posted by Rassenhygieniker View Post
    No but J2 individuals are not 6 feet tall and don't look Arabo-Negrid like Bin Laden does.




    If you are female as your profile says, then you shouldn't be J2 since J2 is an Y-chromosome and females do not have Y-chromosomes (males are XY while females are XX).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosome

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplotype

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnamongirl View Post
    What would the corresponding J be, for mtDNA?
    15257A for J2.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnamongirl View Post
    I was under the impression that J, stands for Jasmine, and within the mtDNA Haplogrouping, would mean Jewish.
    • Haplogroup J, termed Jasmine in the scheme of Oxford Ancestors, is believed to have originated in present‐day Lebanon approximately 10,000 years before present, and to have moved north and west into Europe. It is found throughout Europe with particularly high concentrations around the eastern Baltic Sea, Russia, and among the Bedouins and Yemeni, where it reaches frequencies of 25% or higher. J is a major Jewish female lineage (Thomas 2002), being the strongest maternal contributor to Jewish, Arab, Greek and Italian populations. J is also the apparent carrier of congenital longevity and a host of “Jewish” diseases that are being increasingly studied and understood by medical science.


    • All members of mitogroup J can trace their mitochondrial DNA to one woman who is thought to have lived about 45 thousand years ago, probably in the Near East. This woman belonged to a group of humans who became the first farmers in the region now known as eastern Turkey and northern Syria about 10 thousand years ago. The descendants of this group later spread northwestwards, bringing the farming way of life to the indigenous hunter-gatherer groups of Europe.

      Today, members of mitogroup J are mostly found in populations of European ancestry and in the Near East. About 10 percent of Europeans belong to mitogroup J, as do about 12 percent of people in the Near East. The highest frequency of mitogroup J members is found among the Bedouin and Yemeni populations of the Arabian Peninsula. Members of this mitogroup are found in North Africa, Central Asia and India and Pakistan, but become very rare further to the east.

      According to some scientists, members of mitogroup J may have a greater lifespan than those of other mitogroups, but this remains to be confirmed.


    • Haplogroup J (M304)

      J1 is predominately found in in Middle East, North Africa and Ethiopia. J2 is predominately found in Turkey, Iraq, Kurdistan, Lebanon, Syria, Armenia, Georgia, Aegean, and Italy.

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