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Thread: The Germanic Idea in England

  1. #11
    Account Inactive friedrich braun's Avatar
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    Dr. Brandt,

    Do you think it possible that the Third Reich so terribly miscalculated concerning the English (or had a poor understanding of the English) because so few high-ranking National Socialists could speak the language? How many National Socialists travelled or lived in England or socialized with them or had any substantial contacts with the English. Ribbentrop ("my Canadian Champagne salesman" as AH used to call him, and Ribbentrop wasn't a particularly strong individual) spoke English, anyone else?

    I know that during the Putsch trial English journalists sitting behind AH spoke English amongst themselves to the great ire of AH -- he is reported to have turned around at one point and admonished them to "speak German in my presence!" But this sounds like an apocryphal tale.
    Last edited by friedrich braun; Monday, November 10th, 2003 at 06:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by friedrich braun
    When I was in my late teens I went out with an Irish-Catholic girl (born and bred in London, England, however). I recall her saying that the English viewed everyone else as subhuman/inferior, EXCEPT the Germans for whom they had a sneaking admiration coupled with profound loathing.

    Hmmm...well she is perhaps more of an authority than me being born and raised in England. I would agree that the English basically see everyone else as "Johnny Foreigner", but as to having a sneaking regard for the Germans, whilst possible, I've never seen trace of it. Quite the contrary, to be honest as they seem to reserve a particular place for their dislike of the Germans (generally speaking of course). What I find interesting is that when asked to pick out the attributes they particulary dislike, they tend to list characteristics which best suit themselves. It's almost like they dislike Germans because it reminds them of themselves and they seem to have a fundamental problem with that.

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    Senior Member blut-ehre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by friedrich braun
    When I was in my late teens I went out with an Irish-Catholic girl (born and bred in London, England, however). I recall her saying that the English viewed everyone else as subhuman/inferior, EXCEPT the Germans for whom they had a sneaking admiration coupled with profound loathing.
    Yes, I went out with a English girl who studied German and seemed to have a slight admiration for Germans. Relationships like that don't work, sadly

    'German boy, do not forget you are a German,' and, 'Little girl, remember you are to become a German mother.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by friedrich braun

    I know that during the Putsch trial English journalists sitting behind AH spoke English amongst themselves to the great ire of AH -- he is reported to have turned around at one point and admonished them to "speak German in my presence!" But this sounds like an apocryphal tale.
    As far as I know, Hitler could read, understand and also speak English to a certain degree, but he didn't want to speak English, because as he didn't use to speak it perfectly, it could be misunderstood if he used in a converstion with an Englishman a word or expression incorrectly - and he was someone of whom every word was taken with a pinch of salt. He also didn't use to speak English with ambassadors because he then had more time to think of an answer while the translator was translating into German.
    I don't know exactly where I read this, but I remember having read already several times in Hitler biographies or memories of people from Hitler's surrounding about Hitler's knowledge of English - hardly of course the knowledge of the language of someone who studies Anglistic, but the average knowledge of a German who knows enough of it to read texts and make conversations.
    The same goes for Hitler's knowledge of French.

    Other top Nazis who had quite private relationships with the Anglo-Saxon world were von Schirach and Hanfstaengl. Then of course one should think of Hitler's relations to Winifred Wagner and Unity Midford.
    I don't know how much Göring could speak English, but Goebbels - who had quite a good knowledge of French and Latin - couldn't,as far as I remember. I think he tried to learn it a bit in the twenties and thirties, but he had already some problems in the pronounciation of English names...

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by friedrich braun
    Dr. Brandt,

    Do you think it possible that the Third Reich so terribly miscalculated concerning the English (or had a poor understanding of the English) because so few high-ranking National Socialists could speak the language? How many National Socialists travelled or lived in England or socialized with them or had any substantial contacts with the English. Ribbentrop ("my Canadian Champagne salesman" as AH used to call him, and Ribbentrop wasn't a particularly strong individual) spoke English, anyone else?

    I know that during the Putsch trial English journalists sitting behind AH spoke English amongst themselves to the great ire of AH -- he is reported to have turned around at one point and admonished them to "speak German in my presence!" But this sounds like an apocryphal tale.
    As thorulf already stated, the Führer could understand english very well. Ribbentrop tried his best to come to an agreement with England. He was the first to recognize that this was impossible and then urged Hitler to abandon this courting of an unfriendly nation. Unfortunately Hitler had his fix ideas and was convinced that if Germany was pacifist towards England, they will not see us as danger and be our partners. Unfortunately he got his impression of the english only from people who were friendly towards him and his movement (Lord Beaverbrook, Mosley, Lloyd George ect.)
    English are very pragamatic and ruthless. At one momment they will smile in your face, compliment your achievements, praise your cultre, show their so called "fair play", do a lil chitt-chatt and lull you in a state of security and then when you least expect it, stab you in the back. Hypocricy is a Anglo-Saxon "virtue", one might even say, part of their national identety.

    Ribbentrop was probably one of the very few who recognized their true intentions. Their "apeasement" was nothing but stalling for time. they realy duped us good. The english have virtualy betrayed and screwed every one of their partners they ever had. They fucked Russia in WW1, then they dumped Czechia and Poland in 1939 and 1945, they betrayed the serbian Royalists and supported Tito, while at the same time granting asylum to the serb King. After WW1 they screwed their allie Japan. English History is just a record of treachery.

    It is also untrue that Hitler spoke of Ribbentrop in that fashion. Thats another myth created by allies. I recomend Ribbentops memoirs "Zwischen London und Moskau". Maybe it's available in your librarys.
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    Account Inactive friedrich braun's Avatar
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    "It is also untrue that Hitler spoke of Ribbentrop in that fashion. Thats another myth created by allies. I recomend Ribbentops memoirs "Zwischen London und Moskau". Maybe it's available in your librarys."

    Thank you for the tip.

    I'll look for it in my University library and if I can find it's German original so much the better.

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by friedrich braun

    Thank you for the tip.

    I'll look for it in my University library and if I can find it's German original so much the better.
    I know it is available in an english translation, because a comrade has found it in his library.

    88
    .

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    Account Inactive friedrich braun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Brandt
    I know it is available in an english translation, because a comrade has found it in his library.

    88
    Yes, but I should stop being lazy and start reading more stuff in German (I have a kid's vocabulary in German, since I only talk German -- actually a melange of German, French and English -- at home).

    88

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    Post Re: The Germanic Idea in England

    Actually, you all have it wrong. English consider themselves a two-ply branch cut off of Scandinavia and Germany, left alone under pressure by Latin Gaels. One might compare them to the Franks who've been assimilated into Gaul despite their prevelance as the original upper class in the Frankish country, and compare the Icelandish as a more extreme or purer form of England due to it's isolation. You can see clearly that the Revolution in France ended Frankish traditions and reimposed Latin dominance. England's position on the larger portion of a major island has given them more fortitude against assimilation and so the English use this advantage to stay afloat. Consider how Cromwell's Commonwealth did not destroy the monarchy as Bonaparte's ambitions had done later, after a spell. England is a blend of the Scandinavian monarchical regimes and the federalism of German countries.

    America is Cromwell's Commonwealth come to fruition, as are the rest of the British Commonwealth nations such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand, today following shortly behind. The difference here is in American's settlers being upset over the Act of Settlement in which a German king stole the throne by proxy. The Americans had much greater ties to the Old Regime through the Stuart monarchs who were deposed and setup as Jacobites in France. If the Stuarts had been reinstated, America may very well have remained with the Crown. America is mainly a Tudor-Stuart-Cromwell creation. The Houses of Nassau and Hanover were not invited because it meant Dutch and Germans reclaiming and seeking land in the Mid-Atlantic colonies. America was founded on the skeleton of Welsh Tudors, given it's flesh by Scottish Stuarts and its soul by English Cromwells.

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    Senior Member Vestmannr's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Germanic Idea in England

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacobite
    . America was founded on the skeleton of Welsh Tudors, given it's flesh by Scottish Stuarts and its soul by English Cromwells.
    Well, New England might have gotten its soul by Cromwell - but not the rest of the country. The Mid-Atlantic states got their 'soul' though Dissenters - Quakers and the sort, the sort of folk Cromwell would have hung. The South had a soul long before Cromwell - a very 'Celtic' soul as well as a very 'Old English' soul. The rest I'd agree with, however, Cromwell's England made no settlements in America - his major impact was in driving his enemies *to* America.
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    There is nothing the matter with Americans except their ideals. The real American is all right; it is the ideal American who is all wrong. ~G.K. Chesterton

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