Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 37 of 37

Thread: Nihilism - What is the Solution?

  1. #31
    Keeps your Whites Whiter.
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    SuuT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Subrace
    SkandoNordid/Nordicised Faelid
    Gender
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic MeritAristocracy
    Religion
    Heiðinn
    Posts
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: Nihilism - what is the Solution?

    "As research probes further into the complexities of the human mind, it becomes clear that the mind is far from being a composite thing which is an actor upon its world through thoughts; rather, thoughts compose the mind, in the form of connections and associations wired into the tissue of the brain, creating circuitry for future associations of like stimulus. The schematic of this intellectual machine builds separate routing for situations it is likely to encounter, based on grouped similarities in events or objects. In this view of our computing resources, it is foolish to allow pre-processing to intervene, as it creates vast amounts of wiring which serve extremely similar purposes, thus restricting the range of passive association (broad-mindedness) or active association (creativity) possible within the switching mechanism of the brain as a whole. As here we are devout materialists, the brain and mind are seen as equatable terms.
    The "positive" effects of nihilism on the mind of a human being are many. Like the quieting of distraction and distortion within the mind brought about by meditative focus, nihilism pushes aside preconception and brings the mind to focus within the time of the present. Influences which could radically skew our perceptions - emotions, nervousness, paranoia, or upset, to name a few - fade into the background and the mind becomes more open to the task at hand without becoming spread across contemplations of potential actions occurring at different levels of scale regarding the current task. Many human errors originate in perceiving an event to be either more important than it is, or to be "symbolically" indicative of relevance on a greater scale than the localized context which it affects, usually because of a conditioned preference for the scale of eventiture existing before the symbolic event.
    Nihilism as a philosophical doctrine must not be confused with a political doctrine such as anarchism; political doctrines (as religions are) remain fundamentally teleological in their natures and thus deal with conclusions derived from evidence, where nihilism as a deontological process functions at the level of the start of perception, causing less of a focus on abstracting a token ruleset defining the implications of events than a rigorous concentration on the significance of the events as they are immediately effecting the situation surrounding them. For example, a nihilistic fighter does not bother to assess whether his opponent is a better fighter or not that the perceiving agency, but fights to his best ability (something evolution would reward, as the best fighter does not win every fight, only most of them). As a result of this conditioning, nihilism separates the incidence of events/perceptions from causal understanding by removing expectations of causal origins and implications to ongoing eventiture.
    Understanding nihilism requires one drop the pretense of nihilistic philosophy being an endpoint, and acceptance of it being a doorway. Nihilism self-reduces; the instant one proclaims "There is no value!" a value has been created. Nihilism strips away conditiong at the unconscious and anticipatory levels of structure in the mind, allowing for a greater range of possiblity and quicker action. Further, it creates a powerful tool to use against depression or anxiety, neurosis and social stigma. Since it is a concept necessarily in flux, as it provides a starting point for analysis in any situation but no preconditioned conclusions, it is post-deconstructive in that it both removes the unnecessary and creates new space for intellectual development at the same time" (S.R. Prozak)


    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

  2. #32
    Senior Member sheriff skullface's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    Friday, March 30th, 2007 @ 11:01 PM
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    Pennslyvania
    Gender
    Family
    Single, looking
    Politics
    National Socialism
    Religion
    Heathen
    Posts
    131
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Nihilism - what is the Solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ovid View Post
    The traditional definition of nihilism leads us to the conclusion: everything is meaningless, go and kill yourself, it does not really matter. But for me, nihilism is like the law of nature. It abandons all the values expect inherent ones. I mean, the values which are not created by human but the ones existing in the cosmos itself. When you remove all the unnecessary values, you may be able to find
    which is really important. For example, the humans are not equal like most people nowadays claim. There are natural differences between the humans and we have to accept it; races are different.
    that use to be my defination of Nihilism too, when I was really young in junior high school and actually thought of fashioning myself as one and trying to vote in favor of making one president

    but if you look at what Nihilism is really about, and what Nihilists and their organizations are really about, you see that there is nothing intellucually sound, noble or even helpful or worthwhile about it, nowadays I see Nihilism as nothing better than the opium of the masses

  3. #33
    Keeps your Whites Whiter.
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    SuuT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Subrace
    SkandoNordid/Nordicised Faelid
    Gender
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic MeritAristocracy
    Religion
    Heiðinn
    Posts
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: Nihilism - what is the Solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by sheriff skullface View Post
    ...if you look at what Nihilism is really about, and what Nihilists and their organizations are really about, you see that there is nothing intellucually sound, noble or even helpful or worthwhile about it...
    I'm afraid Nietzsche, Heidegger, Camus, and Derrida would beg to differ.

    You might want to do some research on the distinction between Active v. Passive Nihilism. You seem to only be aware of the former (I think).

    All Nihilists must deal with the issue of if and how life has value. This is the very topic which propelled Albert Camus' writing career, and as he observed, the Nihilist is not committed to life denial or suicide. He may, instead, elect to suffer through life in uncertainty, struggling each and every day with feelings of negativity as an option against suicide and death. As another option, he may choose to rebel against this negative propensity and instead of feeling resentment towards his situation, will himself to experience the exhilaration of interpretive freedom. The choice of the Nihilist is, then, not necessarily the choice between living or dying, but the choice between adopting a passive or an active stance towards the world. Both Camus and Nietzsche advocate the choice of Active over Passive Nihilism.


    Passive Nihilism is indicative of a decline in spiritual power. It is characterized by the inability to create, or in the extreme, even to react. The Passive Nihilist is one who, when faced with the world's uncertainty, withdraws and refuses to engage the world. For him, uncertainty is a sufficient condition not to proceed through life, and so paralyzed by fear of the unknown and unknowable - he does nothing. Nietzsche describes this tendency as "...the weary nihilism that no longer attacks...a passive nihilism, a sign of weakness."

    Active Nihilism, on the other hand, is indicative of a relative increase in spiritual power. The Active Nihilist sees freedom where the Passive Nihilist sees absurdity or meaninglessness. He chooses action and creation instead of passivity and withdrawal. For him, the lack of objective standards of truth motivates self created standards and criteria. The Active Nihilist is not active despite the unknown, but because of it. He possesses a store of creative energy and power which allows him to impose personal meaning on the world while never forgetting that he is the source and progenitor of that meaning. He is heroic in this sense, facing the world with courage and purpose.

    Nihilism is its own cure - its own solution: a means of the purification of consciousness by an inversionary fire, sparked by Will.
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

  4. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Last Online
    Sunday, February 14th, 2010 @ 06:46 PM
    Ethnicity
    Italo-brazilian
    Subrace
    Dinaric Atlanto-Mediterranean
    Location
    São Paulo
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Occupation
    Information Terrorist
    Politics
    Carthago Delenda Est
    Religion
    Pagan
    Posts
    367
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Nihilism - what is the Solution?

    If I say that the earth was flat do you believe me? I read about this idea in a book by Tolkien, that is fantasy, but I saw a reality inside the myth, even it's was not materially aprehensible.

    See for example, the myth about the fall into flesh. There is no scientific proof of a golden age where humans were immortals because there is no skeleton to analise.

    Science is just another creed. Everything is a matter of what you believe or not.

    I myself believe in seven senses, common people in five. I add intuition and reason to the five senses. A scientist can say that this is not right because cannot be aprehended materially. Some animals have less than five senses. Probably a eighty sense can be added, that of reality perception, but that is more far removed in terms of practicity.

    The senses itself can be a value. The animals dont recognize the senses. They dont call vision "vision" because they dont known language. Heidegger said that the animal lives in a limited circle, enclosed by a "poverty" of world, that is not poverty at all, he tries to explain, is simply a limitation on reality of being.

    If you thrown a ball to a dog and orders him to take it, he still dont perceive the ball as a ball, and the word "ball" for him is just a password to activate his running to get the ball.

    So, the question of nihilism is not only about nothingness, or frustation about life, or a trying to escape. But it's about reality itself. The question of existence can be added to the question of nihilism in trying to re-define certain concepts that are always limited by the human nature or a human point of view. To see things from above, outside the human sphere, this is the contemplation in the active form of nihilism. Contemplation too, is possible, and can be put side by side with action without limiting the person (high being who knowns in a schopenhaurian sense, or high person in the evolian sense).

  5. #35
    New Member Karnos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Monday, December 11th, 2006 @ 03:39 AM
    Subrace
    Mediterranid
    Location
    Somewhere
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Family
    Single
    Occupation
    Do you want my address too?
    Politics
    None
    Religion
    Nihilist
    Posts
    12
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Thanks for the warm welcome, Moody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    Is everything meaningless? Is your own Nihilism meaningless?
    Yes, everything's pretty much meaningless, my views (nihilism, whatever) included, since I (and everything that constitutes me) am in no way above this universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    Do you believe in meaninglessness, poisonous ideas that are completely nonsensical?
    Can you really escape belief itself?
    Believing in meaninglessness sounds a bit contradictory, since usually belief is placed upon something that makes sense to the individual. Belief in, say, God makes sense to those who believe (or need) in Him, just the same way belief in flying saucers from Zeta Reticuli makes sense to many conspiracy nuts. I don't think I, or anyone, could believe in something that doesn't make sense to them. (For instance, I believe in my abilities to make a good job) Believing in something, though, doesn’t mean that it has to exist. I really don't know how to put into words, but getting past the limitations of language, -or the brain-, I can tell you that I do no believe in, but know, meaninglessness... being overtly dramatic, let us say that I feel it on the flesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    But you believe in the "natural"; surely the "natural, the life and death" you speak of has a meaning to you - you certainly oppose that to the "unnatural".
    So you believe in the "natural" as a positive value; you are not a true Nihilist.
    Whoever said life or death carried any meaning to me? Life is meaningless, and so is death. If all of the summer roadkill, or all the dead on a graveyard, suddenly started walking again, surely there'd be a lot of scares, but a scientist, or someone detached of the situation, would simply say "hmm, that's unnatural". And that's what I mean when I say "unnatural justification", I’m just putting thing into a nice palette all of us comprehend (nature)... life and death (nature) are meaningless, therefore looking for any meaning in them is looking for something unnatural. People are free to give life as many meanings as they want to, but that doesn't mean that the phenomenon we call "life" has any objective meaning at all. There's no positive or negative value in any of this, I'm just saying things plainly... if people hold life as a positive value, with or without meaning, good for them. Me? I just mind about my day-to-day business, if I were to die two days from now, what do I care? So I couldn't publish that anthology of fiction I'm working on, big deal, somebody burry this corpse already...



    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    Thanks for that reference; although Zapffe seems to be more of a Pessimist than a Nihilist.
    You're welcome. If you speak German, there are a few unofficial German translations flying around, and I think there's an English translation of "The Last Messiah", it was out in a magazine called "Philosophy today" or something like that. (I read that in another forum, I can look it up if you're interested)



    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    If all this is fantasy, then what is "Reality"?
    I don't know, (and neither do you ) maybe nothing. The important question here is not "what is reality" but "why reality?", why should there be something objective and tangible, to begin with? The idea of everything being just a game of fog and mirrors is difficult to grasp, after all we're just three dimensional beings used to three dimensional thinking, but maybe this "thing" we live in just doesn't make sense. For all that we know, this world could be anything; the dream of a serial killer; a spontaneous play with no audience and no director; a nonsensical mirage; a bizarre ripple in an infinite void; or maybe god is crazy and imagining the whole thing while locked somewhere on a smelly padded cell... or maybe things aren't that bohemially complicated and we're just bags of sh*t, flesh and bones ready to rot with no other amusing virtue other than being born just to die seven or eight decades latter.



    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    So you believe in the outlook developed by the Theory of Evolution?
    What outlook? That more complex organisms can come out of less complex organism and existing organism can build defenses against environmental hazards? If that's what you mean I don't need to believe on it to see its effects in the short term on insect populations. There’s nothing grand or metaphysically meaningful about it

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    How is reality a "drug"? What is the non-intoxicated state?
    That's a form of speech

    But playing along with the logic of this form of speech, I can't tell you what's the non-intoxicated state, since I am speaking with you, which means that I'm still on the effects of this drug. Once I shake out of it, if I come back, I'll tell you what "the other state" is like



    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    Isn't Buddhism essentially Nihilistic [Nirvana]?
    I'm really not sure, since I'm not well versed in Buddhism. Perhaps it is, if you know a Buddhist you can ask him/her for a concrete answer. But as far as I know the state of Nirvana is a means to escape existence (correct me if I'm wrong) the problem is that you cannot escape; you, me, everyone, we're bound to this flesh and bones and their corrosive effects. Any escapades Buddhists and junkies make are inside their heads, and once the life support system shuts down, down goes Nirvana as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    You say "if life is meaningless" - are you not sure?

    Or are you certain that life is meaningless?
    We're going to go in circles with this one, again thanks to the limits of language, but we can all avoid this if we do not focus in dissecting the semantics and instead focus on what is sincerely being said; some things, it seems, cannot be expressed without finding a contradiction within the context of the conversation, but that seems to be the way language developed: I'm certain life is meaningless, that’s it.

    It's difficult to explain in English, but in my native language (Castilian/Spanish) "if life is meaningless so is death" does not point to doubt towards the qualities (meaninglessness) of an object (life), but it is used as logical statement within the context of what is being discussed. It’s like saying “We’re playing an RPG with certain rules; if you follow these rules you will advance to the next level”. The “if” is being used in the context of what is being said in the whole statement. That’s the way I used it for my paragraph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    What convinces you of that fact?
    History, observations, personal reflections and anecdotes, etc. These are not the kind of things you just open a couple of books and you're ready to embrace a horrid form of universal observation. This is very personal and has to be lived to be partially understood, just like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    Is everything meaningless?
    Yup.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    Is nature meaningless?
    That one too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    Is Nihiliism meaningless?
    Of course it is! And that’s the idiocy of the human phenomenon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suut View Post
    He possesses a store of creative energy and power which allows him to impose personal meaning on the world while never forgetting that he is the source and progenitor of that meaning. He is heroic in this sense, facing the world with courage and purpose.

    Thanks for writing this, Suut. In very few words you managed to resume what I think.

    The difference between a nihilist and a non-nihilist is that the nihilist is always aware of hi own delusion.
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, December 11th, 2006 at 12:34 PM. Reason: merged two consecutive posts by same author

  6. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Thursday, February 1st, 2007 @ 06:48 AM
    Subrace
    Anglo-Saxon / North-Atlantid
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Family
    Currently dating
    Occupation
    outlaw / berzerker
    Politics
    the strong survive
    Religion
    Anti-Christian - Ásatrú - PAGAN
    Posts
    154
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Nihilism - what is the Solution?

    I used to be a nihilist till I had kids and a series of eye opening dreams.

    I think making life happen can be the cure.

  7. #37
    Keeps your Whites Whiter.
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    SuuT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Subrace
    SkandoNordid/Nordicised Faelid
    Gender
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic MeritAristocracy
    Religion
    Heiðinn
    Posts
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Re: Nihilism - what is the Solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karnos View Post
    ...
    The difference between a nihilist and a non-nihilist is that the nihilist is always aware of hi own delusion.
    Hmmm...

    Positing a purpose v. Purposelessness = Delusion...

    One would have to argue that the delusive state lay in affirmation; or, if you like, turning to face the world: and further, running at it full charge.

    I cannot agree.

    Your Nihilism seems to be of some intermediary form: somewhere in the limbo of 'preservation/reservation/acceptance/relative stagnation': your not passive per se; but you find position delusive.

    Simply put, if I am deluded, and if I have the choice of opting for an affirmative (Life affirming) delusion that I can never be certain is a delusion; then it is not affirmative to call my 'delusion' delusive. Moreover, I have the trifecta of decision complete: I have an emotional, rational, and logical reason/position to affirm.

    Why should I not?
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Similar Threads

  1. Racial Nihilism
    By Caledonian in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Sunday, May 14th, 2017, 04:32 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Saturday, August 30th, 2008, 03:28 AM
  3. Nihilism - The Continuity of Life
    By Egil in forum Modern
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: Wednesday, November 14th, 2007, 12:27 PM
  4. Radical Traditionalism and Nihilism
    By Siegfried in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: Monday, October 17th, 2005, 03:54 PM
  5. Rationalism to Nihilism to Faith
    By Jack in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: Friday, January 23rd, 2004, 06:07 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •