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Thread: Nihilism - What is the Solution?

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    Post Re: The Grand Question [on Nihilism]

    let me think...eg WHY do i eat...WHY do i sleep...WHY do i go to college

    a generalized answer could be because either society has required it of you, or you need it to survive, or it is for your enjoyment-out of your own will-because of emotion.

    Is there any question based on WHY these three things don't answer? My brain is frying

    In fact, it could be generalized further - the answer being emotion. You go to work buz you gotta earn money and you earn money to survive so you dont get disease etc so you dont experience PAIN STRESS SADNESS, and you earn more money so you can have FUN ENJOYMENT HAPPINESS. You listen to your mum cuz you dont want her to get ANGRY and you dont want to feel SAD. You go to sleep cuz you want to feel REFRESHED in the morning and you dont want to feel TIRED and LAZY. You eat so you dont feel BAD and WEAK and PAIN and so you feel HAPPY.

    You get the idea...these all go back to emotions. Notice I have mentioned earthly activities. Spiritual activities to evolve as a spiritual entity that do not intervene with modern society are for spiritual evolution of self.

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    Post Re: The Grand Question [on Nihilism]

    Nihilism emerges from frustration. Nihilism is about hate and contempt for society or humanity. Nihilism is not only about why but about how too, how to escape, how to find the middle way. Buddism is nihilistic, they try to reach the nirvana to escape from this reality and find something better than a cruel world.

    Analise the history of humanity, it's always the same thing: men fighting each other for something that leads to procreation. This something is called 'status', in the past this was land, in the capitalistic era is money. The procreation is continuity of lineage, but is repetition too, the son will do the same as the father to acquire status, and then women, and then children, and this continues indefinitely. The man of ideas, founder of religions or a philosopher, generally is not a breeder, this can be seem in numerous examples throughout human history. He sees the repetition, and when try to think about it, nihilism emerges. Nihilism is escape from the repetition. The great nihilists, like Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Evola, are not too much different from the buddists, as they too try to find the middle way through their philosophies. The escape from repetition, the liberation, this is nihilism, because you'll need to challenge the nothingness that comes from this thinking. Overcome the nothingness, try to put a bridge over the abyss to fo to the other side. Nihilism is a dangerous doctrine, especially to breeders.

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    Post Re: The Grand Question [on Nihilism]

    I think its human nature to wants things and to have status. And procreation, are you kidding? That's the only reasonwe are alive is to procreate. Also, I feel it is a pitty that most religeous leaders do not procreate. The Greek Orthodox priests however can have children and they can pass on their ideologies and wisdom to the next generation.

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    Post Re: The Grand Question [on Nihilism]

    Quote Originally Posted by fms panzerfaust
    Nihilism emerges from frustration. Nihilism is about hate and contempt for society or humanity. Nihilism is not only about why but about how too, how to escape, how to find the middle way. Buddism is nihilistic, they try to reach the nirvana to escape from this reality and find something better than a cruel world.

    Analise the history of humanity, it's always the same thing: men fighting each other for something that leads to procreation. This something is called 'status', in the past this was land, in the capitalistic era is money. The procreation is continuity of lineage, but is repetition too, the son will do the same as the father to acquire status, and then women, and then children, and this continues indefinitely. The man of ideas, founder of religions or a philosopher, generally is not a breeder, this can be seem in numerous examples throughout human history. He sees the repetition, and when try to think about it, nihilism emerges. Nihilism is escape from the repetition. The great nihilists, like Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Evola, are not too much different from the buddists, as they too try to find the middle way through their philosophies. The escape from repetition, the liberation, this is nihilism, because you'll need to challenge the nothingness that comes from this thinking. Overcome the nothingness, try to put a bridge over the abyss to fo to the other side. Nihilism is a dangerous doctrine, especially to breeders.
    Interesting. But incorrect.

    Nihilism is dangerous, but for other reasons than what you speak. What it does is open up - it punches holes in every logical accounting for 'why' something ought to be done and it vapourises the barriers that account for 'why not?'. Nihilism is essentially about the liberation of man - from other men, from ideals, from Gods. It leaves him standing in a vacuous space with nothing to stand on and nothing to look up to. The idea is hardly as horrific as many would think it to be, but it has dangers enough to scare many away. We knew it as children. Why should we do something? Well, there is no reason why we should or shouldn't, but desire is enough But as our parents forbade us certain things - and reinforced these forbiddings with threats of various kinds - and then this 'forbidding' authority was somehow turned over to our 'reason', 'conscience', nihilism leaves this in tatters as well. Well then - these threats, instilled in us from childhood, driven into our minds and now called conscience - one could do little but accept those threats then. But were you threatened as you are now with the same threats, have you the strength to challenge them? No? Then have you the means to form a union of egoists and bring down the challenging power and stand over its ruins and claim all that none can take from you as your own?

    Stirner's challenge beckons

    That said, nihilism generally isn't suited for most.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Post Re: The Grand Question [on Nihilism]

    Nihilism, in my opinion, proposes and spreads the idea of impious reflexion, scrutinising every criteria and aspect of life per se. Henceforth it is indeed maximum freedom of the individui (which doesn't aggrandise it though). But nonetheless, through this aspiration, it bears discord and even mental antagonism against the nature of human being. This pertains to the point, that the will to life is however the most active moment of mankind; it wields and ponders every single action;always, even if it is utmost unconscious, we try to preserve our personal, singular life, as the most precious of the things laden on ourselves. Nihilism on the contrary, as a weltanschauung, counters and oppugns this will, since it disavows even the most basal rules, set by anyone, even nature. Conclusively, Nihilism negates the principal of life, of nature as itself, and by all means can therefore be called, without being hyperbolic, unnatural. It enhances man above nature or god, if you believe in such a supranaturalistic phenonemenon.
    This doesn't constrict someone from following and practicing this theorem, though.
    Die schlechtesten Früchte sind es nicht, woran die Wespen nagen.

    Gottfried August Bürger


    Wo die Gefahr wächst, wächst das Rettende auch.
    F. Hölderlin

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    Post Re: The Grand Question [on Nihilism]

    Quote Originally Posted by Q.
    Nihilism, in my opinion, proposes and spreads the idea of impious reflexion, scrutinising every criteria and aspect of life per se. Henceforth it is indeed maximum freedom of the individui (which doesn't aggrandise it though). But nonetheless, through this aspiration, it bears discord and even mental antagonism against the nature of human being. This pertains to the point, that the will to life is however the most active moment of mankind; it wields and ponders every single action;always, even if it is utmost unconscious, we try to preserve our personal, singular life, as the most precious of the things laden on ourselves. Nihilism on the contrary, as a weltanschauung, counters and oppugns this will, since it disavows even the most basal rules, set by anyone, even nature. Conclusively, Nihilism negates the principal of life, of nature as itself, and by all means can therefore be called, without being hyperbolic, unnatural. It enhances man above nature or god, if you believe in such a supranaturalistic phenonemenon.
    This doesn't constrict someone from following and practicing this theorem, though.
    Nihilism does not bring discord/mental antagonism - this 'mental antagonism' is a result of nihilism meeting a mind not healthy enough to handle it. Nihilism cannot oppose life because life is not a slave to logic - rather, logic developed out of life as a necessary mechanism to enhance the practical potential of life. Nihilism is not unnatural simply because this distinction between 'man' and 'nature' is false - man is a part of nature, and anything man creates is therefore a part of nature also. Rather, nihilism frees man from his own creations, and opens up a path for man to heal his link with nature which he has ignored for so long. Nihilism compels nothing. Life compels everything.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Post Re: The Grand Question [on Nihilism]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack
    Nihilism does not bring discord/mental antagonism - this 'mental antagonism' is a result of nihilism meeting a mind not healthy enough to handle it.
    No, I asserted, that Nihilism has, as a necessity, have to collide with the nature of human entity, since it denies or despises every kind of reglement, even those made and implemented by nature. And therefore is unnatural or rather: against nature. And this conception is independent and segregated from claiming, whether man and all his actions are natural, just because man is a part of nature. You abstract too much!

    Nihilism cannot oppose life because life is not a slave to logic
    So what?

    vale
    Last edited by Moody; Saturday, December 9th, 2006 at 02:15 PM. Reason: updated thread
    Die schlechtesten Früchte sind es nicht, woran die Wespen nagen.

    Gottfried August Bürger


    Wo die Gefahr wächst, wächst das Rettende auch.
    F. Hölderlin

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    A little late on this but anyway, I'm a nihilist.

    I don't ask for any "whys" or "hows" or any such questions; asking them would mean that there is a mystery to be solved, said mystery being the nature of existence, meaning, purpose, all of that meaningless crap.

    I don't believe in any meanings or any other sugar coated ideas that will take some sense out of the nonsensical mess we live in. I see us humans as just hairless apes with an over evolved brain whose abstract triune evolution makes us looks for unnatural justifications in natural matters such as life and death and our inability in finding any sound explanation results in the endless array of religions, folk believes and scientific manifestos that try to give a squat meaning to something that very likely doesn't have any. I think Wessel Zapffe said it best ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Wessel_Zapffe ). Religion? Science? Philosophy? The beliefs might be different, but the dependence is the same; Jorge Luis Borges said it best: "I think Philosophy and Metaphysics should be considered as another form of Fantasy literature". For me, thinking there is a higher purpose, plan, or reason to behave like this or that is no different to Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or Michael Jackson.

    I chose to follow a path I laid before me because it is of convenience for me, as a living organism that consciously and unconsciously is looking for the best for itself, nothing more, nothing less... as crude as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by fms panzerfaust View Post
    The great nihilists, like Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Evola, are not too much different from the buddists, as they too try to find the middle way through their philosophies. The escape from repetition, the liberation, this is nihilism, because you'll need to challenge the nothingness that comes from this thinking. Overcome the nothingness, try to put a bridge over the abyss to fo to the other side. Nihilism is a dangerous doctrine, especially to breeders.
    The problem is this: There is no escape. Distraction is the best cure for an otherwise powerful drug commonly referred as "reality". Not thinking about any of this is the best thing one can do, and hey, this is the one solution I’ve found actually gives results.

    For me nihilism is the contemplation of this situation. There is no backdoor to the universe, no way out of this charade, not even in death, because if life is meaningless then so is death. Trying to look for a way out of this mess means there is an exit out of the universe, but I don't think there is any at all. Buddhists can fool themselves all they want, and they might succeed at that, but when the **** hits the fan, their illusory escape will crumble as their brains turn to mush.
    Last edited by Moody; Saturday, December 9th, 2006 at 02:16 PM. Reason: merged two consecutive posts

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Re: The Grand Question [on Nihilism]

    Quote Originally Posted by fms panzerfaust View Post
    The great nihilists, like Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Evola, are not too much different from the buddists, as they too try to find the middle way through their philosophies.
    Schopenhauer was more of a Pessimist than a Nihilist [they are not the same thing], while Nietzsche believed that one had to go through Nihilism [because it is unavoidable at this stage in our civilisation] and come out the other side with an Affirmative philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karnos View Post
    A little late on this but anyway, I'm a nihilist.
    It is never too late!
    I believe that the Philosophy forums differ to many of the others in that long term discussions can take place over years, as they have here.

    There are different positions in Nihilism;

    "1. Total rejection of established laws and institutions."

    This can be done in a passive resistance way, as well as;

    "2. anarchy, terrorism, or other revolutionary activity."

    This is slightly contradictory as "revolution" implies that one actually possess some values.
    Only in the next case would it make sense;

    "3. total & absolute destructiveness."

    Even here we might say that destruction is given a value in and of itself.

    This works around to the view that Nihilism is a belief in Nothingness.

    So this needn't be destructive, angry etc.,

    This leads to;

    "4. Philosophical Nihilism:
    a) an extreme form of scepticism: the denial of all real existence or the possibility of an objective basis for truth.
    b) nothingness or nonexistence."


    This is where our main interest should lie on a philosophy forum, although the more religious position of the next definition is related;

    "5. annihilation of the self, or the individual consciousness, especially as an aspect of mystical experience."
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nihilism

    I don't ask for any "whys" or "hows" or any such questions; asking them would mean that there is a mystery to be solved, said mystery being the nature of existence, meaning, purpose, all of that meaningless crap.
    Is everything meaningless? Is your own Nihilism meaningless?

    I don't believe in any meanings or any other sugar coated ideas that will take some sense out of the nonsensical mess we live in.
    Do you believe in meaninglessness, poisonous ideas that are completely nonsensical?
    Can you really escape belief itself?

    I see us humans as just hairless apes with an over evolved brain whose abstract triune evolution makes us looks for unnatural justifications in natural matters such as life and death and our inability in finding any sound explanation results in the endless array of religions, folk believes and scientific manifestos that try to give a squat meaning to something that very likely doesn't have any.
    But you believe in the "natural"; surely the "natural, the life and death" you speak of has a meaning to you - you certainly oppose that to the "unnatural".
    So you believe in the "natural" as a positive value; you are not a true Nihilist.

    I think Wessel Zapffe said it best ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Wessel_Zapffe ).
    Thanks for that reference; although Zapffe seems to be more of a Pessimist than a Nihilist.

    Religion? Science? Philosophy? The beliefs might be different, but the dependence is the same; Jorge Luis Borges said it best: "I think Philosophy and Metaphysics should be considered as another form of Fantasy literature". For me, thinking there is a higher purpose, plan, or reason to behave like this or that is no different to Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or Michael Jackson.
    If all this is fantasy, then what is "Reality"?

    I chose to follow a path I laid before me because it is of convenience for me, as a living organism that consciously and unconsciously is looking for the best for itself, nothing more, nothing less... as crude as that.
    So you believe in the outlook developed by the Theory of Evolution?

    The problem is this: There is no escape. Distraction is the best cure for an otherwise powerful drug commonly referred as "reality". Not thinking about any of this is the best thing one can do, and hey, this is the one solution I’ve found actually gives results.
    How is reality a "drug"? What is the non-intoxicated state?

    For me nihilism is the contemplation of this situation. There is no backdoor to the universe, no way out of this charade, not even in death, because if life is meaningless then so is death. Trying to look for a way out of this mess means there is an exit out of the universe, but I don't think there is any at all. Buddhists can fool themselves all they want, and they might succeed at that, but when the **** hits the fan, their illusory escape will crumble as their brains turn to mush.
    Isn't Buddhism essentially Nihilistic [Nirvana]?

    You say "if life is meaningless" - are you not sure?

    Or are you certain that life is meaningless?

    What convinces you of that fact?

    Is everything meaningless?

    Is nature meaningless?

    Is Nihiliism meaningless?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Re: Nihilism - what is the Solution?

    The traditional definition of nihilism leads us to the conclusion: everything is meaningless, go and kill yourself, it does not really matter. But for me, nihilism is like the law of nature. It abandons all the values expect inherent ones. I mean, the values which are not created by human but the ones existing in the cosmos itself. When you remove all the unnecessary values, you may be able to find
    which is really important. For example, the humans are not equal like most people nowadays claim. There are natural differences between the humans and we have to accept it; races are different.

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