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Thread: German and Austrian Mistrust of Muslims Grows

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    Re: German Mistrust of Muslims and Islam Grows

    Denger , I imagine the problem is at least a triple conflict between Turks trying to assimilate, Turks trying not to assimilate ( - or allow to assimilate - in this case) - and Germans, the host nation ( !! ) caught in the middle - with some trying to be 'helpful' about assimilation --- and other , maybe a majority, unwilling to accept that its is a good idea for their country , unhappy about what has happened - and prevented from speaking out loud and clear by a worried System trying to keep the lid on !

    If anything goes wrong with this fine balance, there will be fireworks. Much the same probably goes for other parts of Europe..... welcome to the future ??

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    Re: German Mistrust of Muslims and Islam Grows

    Well put, in a sense it's a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it may be good for the German people if the new immigrants stick to their own people, live in their own communities and are not culturally assimilated, as this means a that it's less likely for them to compete for better jobs, assume leadership positions, intermix with local people etc.
    On the other hand, it's becoming increasingly dangerous if they continue to live in isolated communities (in Malmo, there are areas of the city that are avoided by ethnic Swedes and even police forces, Shari'ah operates as an alternative parallel legal system) because the potential for radicalization is greater, it's becoming very difficult to punish immigrant criminals and to protect vulnerable people who may happen to live close to these predominantly immigrant neighbourhoods.
    Yes, if there is a sudden change in this equilibrum (between hosts, orthodox and liberal migrants), there could be dangerous repercussions (as repetition of the November 2005 French riots, the December 2005 Kronulla Riots in Australia etc.)

    The influx of immigrants could lead to paradoxical situations - I think it was October 1998 - in a preliminary game for Euro 2000, Germany was "hosting" Turkey, but the match was played in a city with a substantial Turkish population. The Turkish fans at the stadium slightly outnumbered the German fans and many German players felt they were not playing in front of a home crowd (rather discouraging for the home side).

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    Re: German Mistrust of Muslims and Islam Grows

    Experts fear new conflicts after a study published this week showed most Germans doubt the Western and Islamic worlds can peacefully coexist.
    If they couldn't predict this blindingly obvious fact, then how do they qualify as experts?!?

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    Re: German Mistrust of Muslims and Islam Grows

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakunin View Post
    Turks and Arabs in general are long term ally's of Germany since the time of Karl dem Grossen! They are also the enemy's of the Zionist's.

    All the mistrust towards our ancient ally's comes from Zionist propaganda only.
    This statement of Turks being 'Germany's ancient ally' is absolutely false.
    The Turks have always been a threat to Aryan Europe well before they took Byzantium in 1453...

    1) they are a different race (mixed at that)
    2) they are from a foreign religion
    3) the number of good people Europe has historically sacrificed to ward off their threat has been so great that European history would have progressed in a distinctly better genetic direction without the Turks (particularly if one views the Balkans as an example of what the Turks do to our people).

    The real reason for the later German-Turkish alliance was to do with geo-political balance, and never kinship of race and religion - which are the natural bonds of friendship.

    P.S. Although I appreciate we have a greater (more cunning) enemy than the Turks; in reality we have a complex set of many enemies -- within our borders -- making our lands and people sick.
    Last edited by Nelson; Sunday, February 4th, 2007 at 08:03 AM. Reason: spelling

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    AW: Re: German Mistrust of Muslims and Islam Grows

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakunin View Post
    No, it proves sadly exactly the opposide! Turks and Arabs in general are long term ally's of Germany since the time of Karl dem Grossen! They are also the enemy's of the Zionist's.
    Arabs and Turks are the biggest threat to the cultural and ethnic composition of Europe. They are changing the face of Europe right now.

    All the mistrust towards our ancient ally's comes from Zionist propaganda only.
    It comes more from the constant assaults on European territory made by Arabs and especially Turks in the medivial- and post-medivial-times. (Vienna two times, Hispania, balkans, tours and poitiers..and so on)

    I´ll never accept Arabs or Turks as allies for any case!

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    AW: Re: German Mistrust of Muslims and Islam Grows

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    If they couldn't predict this blindingly obvious fact, then how do they qualify as experts?!?
    Well. the "experts" have to say what the political elite wants to hear. After the "experts" have spoken, the politcal elite supports their politics with their studies, because they are just doing "what the experts are saying". The real experts, with their real studies get silenced by law or by media power. But during the last time, some critic voices of professors have made it through the mass media. Maybe because the problems are now obvious to everybody.

    It is of course better, when Turks and Arabs don't integrate. Integration at such a high rate means, that it changes the native population. One of the main dangers is not so much, that these foreigners breed us out and overrun us, but that they inflitrate the very core of our states and economy. Once they sit in the educational system, the police and parliaments, when they own firms and enterprises, then they have real power. The mob has no power, because police forces and military have methods to keep them under control, when them is only given the permission to. But what will happen, when the Muslims have become the police? And to get into these crucial positions, a Muslim has to "integrate".
    "There can be no true friends without true enemies. Unless we hate what we are not, we cannot love what we are." Samuel Huntington

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    Re: AW: Re: German Mistrust of Muslims and Islam Grows

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    I´ll never accept Arabs or Turks as allies for any case!
    Hear hear!
    I read the other day that Louis XIV was only able to conquer Elsass Lothringen because the armies of the Holy Roman Empire of the German People were busy fighting off the Turk from Vienna.

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    Re: German Mistrust of Muslims and Islam Grows

    Quote Originally Posted by Denger View Post
    Well put, in a sense it's a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it may be good for the German people if the new immigrants stick to their own people, live in their own communities and are not culturally assimilated, as this means a that it's less likely for them to compete for better jobs, assume leadership positions, intermix with local people etc.
    On the other hand, it's becoming increasingly dangerous if they continue to live in isolated communities (in Malmo, there are areas of the city that are avoided by ethnic Swedes and even police forces, Shari'ah operates as an alternative parallel legal system) because the potential for radicalization is greater, it's becoming very difficult to punish immigrant criminals and to protect vulnerable people who may happen to live close to these predominantly immigrant neighbourhoods.
    Yes, if there is a sudden change in this equilibrum (between hosts, orthodox and liberal migrants), there could be dangerous repercussions (as repetition of the November 2005 French riots, the December 2005 Kronulla Riots in Australia etc.)
    Actually the other side of the sword, the (natural) "dangers" of ethnically segemented societies, are finally also "good" for the German people--a good education program for them. There are still much too many people who very well realise the problems, who do not trivialize or deny the reality, but who cling to hopes that the problems of the multicultural society will solve thmeselves one day in peaceful harmony and the final "integration" of Turks & Co. "Good"-minded liberalist and anti-"radical" thinking is still too strong in German society that many people would seriously show colours as supporters of the necessary consequent answer to the multicultural perdition--which is the refusal of all ideas of assimilation and integration and the request for the complete repatriation of the immigrants. The radicalisation of the immigrants will work as a good annihilator of illusions and generator of radicalism among Germans. That the atmosphere will become acerb and cruel may have its uncomfortable sides, but better an end with fear than fear without an end.
    Man ſei Held oder Heiliger. In der Mitte liegt nicht die Weisheit, ſondern die Alltäglichkeit.

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    Islam doesn’t belong here, say two-thirds of Germans
    The number of Germans who say that Islam is not a part of Germany has risen sharply over the previous two years, a new poll shows.

    For 60 percent of Germans, Islam does not belong in their culture, with only 34 percent of respondents saying that, yes Islam does have a place in Germany, a poll published by Infratest dimap on Thursday shows.

    This is a dramatic sharpening of public hostility to the Mohammedan faith since ex-President Christian Wulff famously stated in 2010 that "Islam is now also a part of Germany".

    When Wulff made his remark slightly more Germans agreed than disagreed.

    But a poll conducted in August 2014 showed that public opinion was slowly shifting against tolerance.
    Most Germans don't have any Muslim friends

    Almost two-thirds of non-Muslim Germans don't know any Muslims personally, a new survey has showed, casting light on increasing unease over the religion's place in society.

    The YouGov poll for press agency DPA found that 62 percent of people said that they didn't count a single Muslim among their close personal friends.

    But that may be in the process of changing, as around half of young people aged 18-24 said that their social circles included Muslims.

    Pollsters also found that the number of Muslim friends a person had was closely linked to their level of education.

    Among those who had graduated from high school with the Abitur academic qualification, 42 percent said they had Muslim friends.

    But just 28 percent of people who had finished their schooling with only a secondary education certificate could say the same.

    “Our own surveys also show that higher levels of education go along with greater openness to diversity,” said Cornelia Schu, an expert with the German Foundations for Integration and Migration (SVR).

    People with higher income also “generally tend to have a more positive attitude towards people with a migration background,” Schu said.
    In other words, people with more indoctrination experience...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Out of Germania View Post
    Most Germans don't have any Muslim friends


    In other words, people with more indoctrination experience...
    That's right and may be one explanation because the indoctrination starts in Kindergarten and increases through the grades.
    But this is also the newest strategy of the left. Since shouting "Nazi" at everyone disagreeing with leftist ideology has worn out a little and many people don't care anymore they are giving a new strategy a try. And it goes like this: If you are not a leftist you are uneducated or flat out dumb. So, if you want to be seen as a smart and educated person you need to be a leftist.

    But I don't believe in their statistics. I am a high-school graduate myself and I know a lot of others including university graduates who share my world view.

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