Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: South Slavs are Northern Europeans in terms of mtDNA

  1. #1
    Member Pomor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Last Online
    Sunday, December 25th, 2005 @ 06:45 AM
    Subrace
    north-europid
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Occupation
    student
    Politics
    Apolitical
    Posts
    705
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post South Slavs are Northern Europeans in terms of mtDNA

    The following is from Polak:

    The phylogeographic context of the southern Slavs: A mitochondrial perspective
    H. V. Tolk 1, M. Pericic 2, L. Barac 2, S. Cvjetan 2, P. Rudan 2, K. Tambets 1, R. Villems 1;
    1Estonian Biocentre and Tartu University, Tartu, ESTONIA, 2Institute for Anthropological Research, Zagreb, CROATIA.

    Mitochondrial DNA lineages of three South Slavonic-speaking populations of the northwestern Balkan peninsula - Croats, Bosnians, and Slovenians (N ~1,200; ~370 haplotypes) - were identified combining the sequences of mtDNA HVS-I region and the RFLP data from coding region. These lineages were compared with a dataset of about 12,000 samples from elswhere. This phylogeographic knowledge base was used to interpret demographic events of the past since the peopeling of Europe. An absolute majority of the lineages found belong to the common western-Eurasian haplogroups - H, I, J, K, T, U, V, and W. Low-frequency haplogroups, e.g., N1, R, HV, and pre-HV, are present as well. Lineages, characteristic for sub-Saharan Africa or eastern Eurasia, occurred in single cases. For better phylogeographic resolution the data of the populations from different geographic areas were compared in a sub-haplogroup level, and the fraction of the identical haplotypes between population groups was determined. The distribution and diversity of many subhaplogroups reveals that the gene pool of the populations of northwestern Balkans has not gained much influence from the Near East during the Holocene. With some interesting exceptions, southern Slavs tend to have more common phylogenetic branches shared with Germanic (e.g. T2), West Slavonic, or, in some cases, with Finno-Ugric speakers (e.g., U4, U5), but significantly less so with southern European and eastern Mediterranean populations.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, May 10th, 2012 @ 02:10 AM
    Ethnicity
    Afrikaner
    Ancestry
    Slavic
    Country
    South Africa South Africa
    Gender
    Posts
    2,292
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    Nothing surprisng about this really.Southern Slavs migrated to the Balkans in the 4-5th centuries from central Europe, according to historians, possibly earlier.I know the article only mentions Slovenes, Croats, and Bosnians(which ones?) but here is a little history lesson:

    Covering the first half of the sixth century, the Slavs were still based north of the Danube but kept up constant pressure of raids across the river, which yielded them plunder, slaves and bribes to remove themselves. There were as yet few attempts to make permanent lodgements south of the Danube. The wide-ranging movements of the Getae in the North Balkans from 517 may have brought Slavs in as contingents in their armies. Prokopios alludes to a large-scale Slav raid on Thrace about 527. In the 530s there were further substantial incursions and in the 540s massive raids, which at one moment menaced Constantinople itself.Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos relates that the Serboi are descended from the unbaptized Slavs who lived in the place called Boiki (Bohemia), next to Frankia. Most of the migrating Slavs were agriculturalists who pushed aside the aboriginal Roman-speaking,many of whom were stock-breeders, populations to the mountainous areas where they still exist as of today,Aromanians,Vlachs,Mavrovlachs,Cinc ari etc.



  3. #3
    Senior Member Vetinari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, June 15th, 2012 @ 04:40 AM
    Subrace
    Other
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    Lovecraftian
    Posts
    244
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Wend
    The following is from Polak:
    Not that surprising. It seems that the further away you get from the eastern Mediterranean, the less Neolithic ancestry you find.

  4. #4
    Member Awar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, October 21st, 2005 @ 11:04 PM
    Subrace
    Corded/Balkanoid UP
    Country
    Confederate States Confederate States
    Location
    Olympus
    Gender
    Age
    40
    Politics
    Nutzi
    Religion
    Agnostic!!!
    Posts
    4,947
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6
    Thanked in
    6 Posts

    Post

    Interesting. On a map Polak posted earlier, there was a great similarity between Serbian and Dutch haplogroups.

  5. #5
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Saturday, December 24th, 2005 @ 11:12 AM
    Subrace
    Other
    Location
    Everywhere
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Politics
    Non-hateful Nationalist
    Posts
    1,059
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    Slovenians have 58% pure light eyes and 25% blond hairs, so they are racially Northern European from any angle....

  6. #6
    Member Triglav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 25th, 2006 @ 12:24 PM
    Subrace
    Arya/Paleoeuropeidal (norda) :D
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    European Union
    Gender
    Politics
    Fairness
    Posts
    2,407
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Patriot
    Slovenians have 58% pure light eyes and 25% blond hairs, so they are racially Northern European from any angle....
    Well, yes, I can confirm the data on hair. Morphologically, though, I would say that we are for the most part identical with Austrians and Southern Germans.

    58% pure light eyes? I'd have to see by which definition this was established. I heard from another source that we have about 70% light (pure and mixed) eyes which would coincide with my observations.

    Those are my $ 0.02.

  7. #7
    Member Awar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, October 21st, 2005 @ 11:04 PM
    Subrace
    Corded/Balkanoid UP
    Country
    Confederate States Confederate States
    Location
    Olympus
    Gender
    Age
    40
    Politics
    Nutzi
    Religion
    Agnostic!!!
    Posts
    4,947
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6
    Thanked in
    6 Posts

    Post

    Did you see this map by Coon?

  8. #8
    Member Triglav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 25th, 2006 @ 12:24 PM
    Subrace
    Arya/Paleoeuropeidal (norda) :D
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    European Union
    Gender
    Politics
    Fairness
    Posts
    2,407
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    Did you see this map by Coon?
    Well, here both elements are lumped together, so this is no reliable index. Furthermore, I can not see any definition of "light" and "dark" niether in terms of eye nor in terms of hair colour.

  9. #9
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Saturday, December 24th, 2005 @ 11:12 AM
    Subrace
    Other
    Location
    Everywhere
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Politics
    Non-hateful Nationalist
    Posts
    1,059
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    58% pure light eyes? I'd have to see by which definition this was established.
    "Pure light" in this case is defined as #9-12 on the Bunak Scale, i.e. grey, grey-blue, light-blue and deep blue.
    I heard from another source that we have about 70% light (pure and mixed) eyes which would coincide with my observations.
    Slovenians have 4% dark eyes, thus 96% pure light and mixed shades (including hazel and yellowish shades). They also have a CI of 83 and a relatively high (~20%) incidence of concave nasal profiles, all of which would make me classify them as a predominantly Borreby/West-Baltic population. Dinaric strains are surprisingly weak among Slovenians (there are more concave noses than convex).
    Last edited by Prodigal Son; Wednesday, November 5th, 2003 at 02:36 AM.

  10. #10
    Member Triglav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 25th, 2006 @ 12:24 PM
    Subrace
    Arya/Paleoeuropeidal (norda) :D
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    European Union
    Gender
    Politics
    Fairness
    Posts
    2,407
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Russian Patriot
    have 4% dark eyes, thus 96% pure light and mixed shades (including hazel and yellowish shades).
    I would like to see figures for other countries for comparison, RP.

    They also have a CI of 83 and a relatively high (~20%) incidence of concave nasal profiles, all of which would make me classify them as a predominantly Borreby/West-Baltic population. Dinaric strains are surprisingly weak among Slovenians (there are more concave noses than convex).
    The local Dinaric types are mostly Savid whom Skerlj defines as light-pigmented, light-eyed, longer-headed and akin to Noric. In any case, the local Dinaric types quite significantly differ from those of all neighbouring countries. Borreby is found in transition to Alpine.

    Baltic is also a significant element, but I wouldn't go as far as to label the population West-Baltic, but rather a general Baltic in combination with different other types.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: Sunday, January 3rd, 2010, 10:23 AM
  2. [SOLVED] Non-Caucasoid Amixture (mtDNA) in Northern Slavs
    By Arkona in forum Mitochondrial (mtDNA) Haplogroups
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Monday, September 20th, 2004, 07:08 PM
  3. Replies: 15
    Last Post: Monday, February 9th, 2004, 09:45 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •